Frustrated with airlines and using miles

What is going on is that you are not the only passenger wanting to fly business. Demand for air travel has skyrocketed, particularly transatlantic. It takes time, months and months, for an airline to sufficiently expand their operations to meet demand increases.

Look what happened at Southwest when they committed to an overly optimistic schedule without the proper infrastructure to actually fly it when the weather changed.

Not only are they gouging the reward customers but everyone else, too. Flights are double what they were pre-Covid. Everybody wants to travel, apparently.

If you really wanted those seats for next September, you probably should have booked them last October. It depends on the airline but eight months out is often (usually) too late.

In your case you're also looking for seats to one of the world's most popular destinations, so you're competing against everyone else who wants to go there.

Is this normal for rewards flights or did everything change after the
pandemic?

Some things changed during and after the pandemic, but what you're describing is nothing new. The only thing that's new (well, new-ish) is that more and more programs have gone to (what they cal) "dynamic pricing" where there is no more fixed price for an award, it'll cost as much as they want to charge, usually with numbers that require too many digits to believe. It is still possible to get great award redemptions, but you have to be completely on your "A game" and know what you are doing, and that means you need to plan far, far ahead (much further than 8 months).

FWIW, for my upcoming trip to Europe in September/October 2023, I got pretty good award flight redemptions, booking in October 2022. Pretty good, not great. Then in November I spotted some jaw-dropping deals for better flights that were so cheap I couldn't believe it at first. I quickly picked my jaw up off the floor, booked those better flights, saved 2/3 of the miles I had spent when I booked my original flights (got a much better routing too), and canceled my original flights for a full refund.

There are still good deals to be found, you just need to jump on them when they pop up. 8 months ahead is not a sweet spot. Try 11 months ahead, or less than a week before departure (if you can live your life that dangerously).

Yes, mile requirements have skyrocketed this year.

I booked a round trip in business class for this April outbound and July inbound in December. I had a choice of my preferred flight the entire week. But I was looking at the busiest route across the Atlantic so there were plenty of flights.

Expected demand has a lot to do with availability and mile requirements. If the airline thinks they can actually sell tickets on those flights, they will limit the number of award seats.

The other thing you can do is monitor to see if any availability comes up.

What mileage program are you using and what airline?

The programs I use are British Airways and Alaska Airlines, both part of the One World alliance. British Airways releases the award seats 355 days in advance and at popular travel times the seats in business class generally book up that same day. After that there is scattered availability for people using programs that get access to award seats 330 days in advance.

The only airlines I have heard of that increase the cost of reward seats as they sell out are Delta and American Airlines.

Using miles to book seats in business class takes advance preparation and careful study. You cannot expect to get what you want, when you want, without doing the work. It has been that way for years, in my experience, but the pandemic has made it harder. Not because the airlines are “gouging the reward flight customers”, but because there are lots of people with tons of miles to spend because they did not travel for two years. So there are lots more people chasing a limited number of seats.

I wish I had better news for you, but that is the situation.

I gave up on using miles to book international flights years ago - I now just purchase Business Class travel and use those points to fly domestic. With the outright purchase, I get the routing I want and the departure times I want.

I used my Avios for Business Class tickets to Europe in April and even though I have had no problem using them in the past, when I bought the tickets in October I had to rearrange my vacation as there was usually only one award seat left. People think business class will be safer when flying nowadays. My flights to and from California were all full in business yet seats were available in coach.

That said, it's been harder to get award flights for years before covid because many people are members of an airline program. Air miles were originally conceived when only businessmen flew regularly and were designed to get business to use one airline. Back in the 1980s, my uncle used to be fly wherever-whenever using his miles. Now that everyone has joined, the airlines need to make money somehow.

Not to mention that now, as opposed to when your uncle was redeeming his miles, people earn lots and lots of miles outside of flying, by using their miles-earning credit cards. Thus expanding even more the universe of people who have miles to redeem.

Mileage prices can vary wildly between destinations, too. About a month ago I was searching Delta for two tickets (economy) for an April trip to Europe, preferably Vienna. Lowest prices I found for Vienna were 90,000 each. But nearby Budapest was 50,000 each, same dates. So there are still some deals to be had.

there are still some deals to be had.

To me, it would only be a deal if Budapest was my destination.

Keep monitoring - things change. Our next trip is mid-August to mid-September. I booked award tickets as soon as seats became available, approximately 11 months out. We are flying into Copenhagen and out of Paris. We initially were flying out of Amsterdam but decided to add on another trip to Paris but only if I could get the business class seats. And I did - got those, put it on hold, canceled the flights out of Amsterdam, waited a few hours for the miles to get redeposited then completed the booking for the seats on hold. And the number of miles needed was the same as I've "paid" the last few years for business (American), 57,500 each, each way. Yes, we have to go through Heathrow and the taxes/fees for BA are ridiculous but we look at it as the price we pay for those business class flights - still cheaper than paying cash! The itineraries at the 57,500 level are often not so great but I'm stingy with my miles. I've got to make them stretch as much as possible.

So maybe someone benefited by my canceled seats out of Amsterdam? Dunno but I got what I wanted.

Add United to the list of airlines with demand-adjusted mileage requirements for flights. I booked on December 10 for a February/March trip from Washington-Dulles to Rome and saw a variety of mileage charges from 30,000 miles up. The outbound flight was 33,000 miles for regular coach; the inbound, 38,600. The flights are still available at virtually the same mileage costs. Both have one stop; United doesn't seem to have a Rome non-stop in the winter. Just for grins I just checked the cash price of my trip: over $2600.

I decided to combine Budapest and Vienna. They're less than three hours apart by train.

We have always booked 11 months out for any premium destination. My husband always follows the availability, starting a few days out and books the first day they come up and a lot of times they disappear that day.

People are motivated to travel now and have saved up points and travel funds. If people are fine with paying cash for business, the airlines have no incentive to offer many mileage opportunities. Sadly, I do think you have missed the chance for business class this fall.

We do try to play the system a little. Often you are not offered all of the options if you just plug in from point A to B. I don't know where you are coming from or who your points are with, but chances are, you don't have nonstops. If you look at competitive nonstop markets, you can sometimes find a better deal and then you just have to separately book with miles, the domestic leg to get to that city. For instance, Delta is a partner with Air France, so if you look at Atlanta to Paris flights on Delta, you might get a flight on Air France, and then you just then have to get to Atlanta.

To me, it would only be a deal if Budapest was my destination.

For many people, using miles can enable them to fly more often or better. And if time is not an issue, or if someone has to choose money over time, miles to a nearby destination with an inexpensive flight or short train ride can really be helpful. You are fortunate to not be someone who has to make that choice in order to travel.

jeffreymf, I do tend to look ahead at my planned travel for the upcoming year and make a decision on dollars versus miles for each trip. If I think I need to use miles (for me questions are length of flights, number of miles required, dollars required if I don’t use miles, dollars for air tax, and length of trip), then I try to book as soon as flights are available. That being said, last year I booked London for a decent deal - but later found better flights for far fewer miles. I actually rebooked that trip 2 times. Lesson for myself was to check back every so often.

And yes, take a look at where your miles CAN get you. If I can fly business to Budapest, take a $100 hop to a nearby Baltic airport, and save several thousand over paying for a flight in business, I know which choice I would be making. With my budget, that several thousand is a whole other trip!

We have only been able to use air miles to book an international trip once and that was 20 years ago and even a year out, we had to choose an awkward route (through London with an overnight and hotel cost without enough time to enjoy the city). We now use a credit card that awards points which we can use to pay for any flights -- like that a lot better.

Flying coach using miles has worked for us on 11 trips to Europe. Twice we got lucky and were able to book First Class one-way to Dublin and another to home from Brussels. Aside from Europe we've been even more lucky, flying First Class from Shanghai and Business Class which equaled First on two category flights to Auckland and from Sydney. Booking one-ways with UA and AA miles is how we've used our miles for a decade or so and through those airline alliances have flown partners often.

That being said, for this year's trip to Europe our flight in Economy to CDG using AA miles cost 43k each for a one-stop from CLE via JFK. And the seat selection was pitiful! Our flight home from ZRH is on UA metal for 30k each via ORD and again seat choices were the dregs.

Dynamic pricing is the norm everywhere these days whether paying cash or using miles.

Great info everybody. I appreciate all the different perspectives. A little bit more about my situation: I'm flying to Geneva in September to hike the Tour du Mont Blanc for ten days. I already have a flight booked and it looked like I was getting the last available seat for 57,500 miles on American Airlines. My wife wanted to join me after the hike and we'd tour parts of Switzerland and France. I incorrectly thought we still had time to book a reward flight for her. I'm willing and able to use trains to meet her in just about any city within reason. I belong to Marriott Bonvoy and have over a million points to use, but we can burn them so fast a million points doesn't go nearly as far as they used to. For one thing it takes three Marriott points to equal one mile. So the 57,500 miles cost me 172,500 points for a one-way ticket. For my wife and I both to fly home from Paris in business class would cost us just over 1,000,000 Marriott points. As of right now, we cannot find a business class seat anywhere for less than 465,000 Marriott points. And before you say we should book economy or premium economy, my wife has health issues which requires she be comfortable and able to at least recline or lay down her seat. I've checked most of the airports in Europe with no luck. So now we're trying to decide to have my wife bag it for this year and plan a trip together for 2024, or bite the bullet and pay the airlines customer gouging fees for business class. Thanks again for all your info. I'm still learning!

A few points to add...

Anytime you can book a business class ticket to Europe using American Airlines points, and it only costs you 57K, you should celebrate, because that's as good as it gets (even if you have some horrible routing with multiple layovers). So count your blessings there. You may not be able to repeat that.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but your Mariott points are not super valuable; one nice feature of those points is they can be transferred to dozens of different airlines; the transfer ratios do vary, but most are (as you said) 3-to-1; if you transfer in chunks of 60,000 points, you get a minor extra bonus of 5,000 extra (so, 60K Mariott points equates to 25K airline points). The exchange rates for some airlines are much worse though, so check carefully.

You only mention your destination (Paris), you do not mention your departure airport(s), which is equally important (leaving from New York City? You have lots of options...leaving from Boise, Idaho? A lot fewer...).

Flexibility is the key - if you are constrained to specific dates, the degree of difficulty shoots straight up and adds to the challenge. What's the earliest/latest dates you could fly?

David in Seattle: thanks for your info. We're in the Sacramento area, so would fly out of any of the Bay Area airports, but most likely is SFO or San Jose. We were thinking to end our trip in Paris, but are amenable to beginning there and ending our trip around Geneva. We'd like to tour around Lake Geneva, Chamonix, Annecy, and then Paris. I've checked flights to and from Geneva, Zurich, Lyon, Paris, Munich, Frankfurt, and Stuttgart. Now I'm toying with the idea of giving up my one-way ticket and booking a round-trip ticket to Geneva and back to San Francisco. I talked to an agent at American Airlines who said they will now refund my ticket fee and return the points to Marriott. That's a new one on me, so I still need to confirm that with both another call to American and a call to Marriott and see what they tell me. I never totally believe what one person says. As far as dates go I'm starting the self-guided Tour du Mont Blanc on September 1. My friends and I are in agreement we should fly out August 28 or 29th and arrive the next day in Geneva. Then we'll bus on to Chamonix and have a couple days to rest and meet with the tour operator before we begin our trek. We finish the hike on September 10. We were trying to arrange to have my wife fly over on September 11 or 12 to Geneva or Paris where I would meet her. Now we've almost come to the conclusion that it would be better to travel together in fall of 2024, using the points and reward tickets when they first become available. I could kick myself in the butt for thinking there would be plenty of time to book the flights. I used to believe there was a rule that the "international sweet spot" was four to five months out. I guess I was wrong or maybe that was referring to cash tickets. Live and learn!

There are a few other ways to skin a cat. I wouldn't give up on having your wife meet you. If this pandemic has taught us anything, it's do it now. You may not be able to next year.

First, you could get her a biz seat over but an economy back. That way you could give her your business seat since she has health issues. Sitting upright going east to west is not overnight. You should be in top shape after hiking Mont Blanc.

Second, you could buy her a ticket. That's what we do when we have only enough miles for one business class seat. We buy one business class ticket. But, to save money you could buy the split ticket. Again, you'd give her your business class seat while you fly further back.

Or, you just spend the points since you have a million. You know that both of you are well enough to travel this year. Will you both be well enough next year? The points are devalued year after year. Meanwhile, you don't know what could happen between now and next year.

I'm in the camp that you save where you can but if something special, unusual, or an emergency requires an outlay, I bite the bullet and don't look back.

If you are interested in looking into Bets’ excellent suggestion, note that British Airways is having a sale right now. I saw Roundtrip tickets to Geneva from the west coast in business class for around $4000 each. The sale in on for a few more days.

Bets you are right, but OP seems pretty scattered and unfocused. While I understand he's frustrated, he has not provided the most basic details requested for help (in either of the two threads he started on this) and it appears he may have just given up. I took a look last night and immediately found multiple simple, perfectly acceptable and even attractive (to me) options that I'm guessing MIGHT work for him, but he has never clearly stated what he actually wants/needs/will accept (or exactly what he has already booked, and what's left to accomplish...or how many points he has to spend, either). It sounds like he has a good ticket both ways for himself, and wants to hook up with his spouse, somewhere, some time, but really has not been specific. Without knowing those fundamental details, how can anyone really help?

It also appears he may have at least "started to cancel" his already-booked flights (not sure what that really means, and it's unclear to me if he actually did that). The booking he got was an incredible bargain that won't be easily replicated (he apparently expected it would be); it would be an extremely unwise choice IMHO if he has actually canceled that original booking.

Bottom line: there may well be good options still available, but OP does not appear to be following up with any urgency OR clarity (both are needed), and that's not going to help as his options continue to dwindle and disappear with each passing hour.

also remember that when you check with points guy and view from the wing on using points, you are rarely supposed to use them where you earned them. which is odd, but you're supposed to always be transferring them into another airline's plan.

So here's what I did for my next trip

1. Cash Business Class BOS to LHR - This cost less than a coach ticket ATL to CDG
2. Frequent flyer miles ATL to BOS and return
3. Eurostar London to Paris

A couple of caveats.

1. I fly to BOS 8 hours before my flight to LHR and have an overnight on return (I have a free place to stay there so...)
2. I allow 4 -5 hours between landing in London and the train to Paris (and a willingness to buy a full fare plane or train ticket if I miss my connection
3. Overnight in London before my flights home.
   

In the past I have flown on cash to someplace like JFK and then used miles to get to Europe. You have to be very flexible!)

OK, I just checked again for more details on the British Airways sale. For the random September dates I chose, the price in Business Class for very good flight times was in the range of $4200 per person. That was using the BA 286 and 287 flights from SFO to London using the very comfortable A380 jet with totally lie-flat seats (I can attest to how comfortable that plane is to fly). You would have to book as two separate tickets since you and your wife will be flying outbound on different dates, so you may want to add seat selection fees for the return trip since you will not be automatically seated together.

The advantage of this path is you do not have to look for award seats; this is a revenue ticket and every flight is open to you ( but some dates are cheaper than others).

You can offset the cost of the flight by using your Marriott points to pay for all your lodging on the time together in France and Switzerland. We have found some very nice European hotels in the Marriott Autograph collection—nothing at all like your standard Marriott. These are local gems that have affiliated with the Marriott name for booking (and points).

You could save between $3000 and $4000, or possibly more, by using your Marriott point this way instead of enduring the frustration of trying to turn them into miles for award flights. So deduct that amount from the cost of cash tickets and it might look more attractive.

I don’t know how old you and your wife are, but if she has health problems you might want to take Bet’s advice to heart. My husband and I hiked the TMB in 2018 when we were both past 70. We thought we were invincible. In 2019, we did some great hiking trips to Spain and Japan. We had great plans for 2020 but of course had to cancel everything. And now, 3 years later, covid has taken its toll and everything is different. We are still planning to travel and hike, but every trip has presented challenges.

Our motto now is “carpe diem”.

We have given up using points for Business Class flights. We now use our airline and credit card points for hotel stays, particularly an airport hotel the night before an early flight or somewhere that we are staying for only 2-3 nights. Our upcoming Air France BC seats for May were a jaw dropping price but my spouse also has some health issues so it has become a requirement for him.

To me, it would only be a deal if Budapest was my destination.

I've been hunting for a Budapest deal with no luck. I'm in a flyover state which makes Europe a bit more expensive in general, but I'm usually able to find flights to Budapest in the 60k-70k Skymiles range. We'll be in Budapest in the fall and I couldn't get any Rewards flights at all. I have been looking since availability opened. Finally, I purchased our tickets last month and I will save my Skymiles for another time. It's a good thing I did, becasue I checked today to find the fights are $200 more.

In 2019, we paid 29,000 Skymiles for a RT from the heartland to Budapest! Oh how I would love to see that offer again.

Carpe dime sounds like something a cheapskate would live by ...

Oops—darn autocorrect doesn’t know Latin.

I fixed it.

Rewards points feel very scammy to me--they're always so hard to use. I just do cashback now.