France and Italy in 14 days

We don't want to be too rushed...I recently saw a blogpost on a
different site where a couple travelled to Paris-French Riviera-Cinque
Terre-Florence-Rome and Positano. This is exactly what I am interested
in,

If the itinerary above is exactly what interests you, then you WILL indeed be rushed even assuming your 14 days does NOT include both your European arrival & departure dates.

Select just one country to enjoy the cafés, bike riding, hiking and eating you described in your OP.

For your itinerary, you need 3 weeks minimum, and even then this would be somewhat rushed, not the relaxing, leisurely trip you say you want.

This is your first trip to Europe. You'll be beck. For this trip, pick France or Italy, not both.

I travel at a pretty fast clip. I haven't yet been to Italy. I have been to France four times. Each time for 12-14 days. Yet, I've not seen a lot of France. France is huge. Also, if you are going to Cinque terre, I would cut the French Riveria. You maybe then could do Paris to Rome and then the rest of your wishes in Italy. You could fly to Paris and then Florence and home from Rome. Train between everything else.

I agree that the OP should consider either France or Italy. Sometimes people do not consider the fact that extra travel adds to the cost of the trip without increasing enjoyment.

Here is what an itinerary would look like with 14 nights on the ground. Fly into Paris and out of Rome.

Day 1 - arrive Paris, sleep there 3 nights

Day 2 - Paris

Day 3 - Paris

Day 4 - Travel to the French Riviera (I'll say Nice for simplicity) via TGV, sleep there 2 nights

Day 5 - French Riviera

Day 6 - Travel by train to the Cinque Terre. This will take most of the day. Sleep there 2 nights

Day 7 - CT

Day 8 - Travel by train to Florence, sleep there 2 nights

Day 9 - Florence

Day 10 - Travel to Positano by train and bus (this will take most of the day). Sleep there 2 nights

Day 11 - Positano

Day 12 - Travel to Rome by bus and train. Sleep there 3 nights

Day 13 - Rome

Day 14 - Rome

Day 15 - Fly home

You could hike in the Cinque Terre and perhaps at Cap d'Antibes, maybe Positano, if the weather cooperates during the brief time you have in each place.

You will eat up a lot of budget (both time and money) with long transfers. You will spend a lot of time checking in and out of hotels and orienting yourselves to each new place.

As mentioned above, one country = a more relaxing 14 days. You could do either France (Paris, Chamonix, Riviera) or Italy (Cinque Terre, Florence, Rome, Positano) reasonably well.

And do not rent a car! Pick up in one country and drop off in another will blow the budget.

I highly recommend choosing one of the countries. Cinque Terre-Florence-Rome-Amalfi Coast would be good, although I'd choose between the Cinque Terre and Amalfi Coast (I think I'd choose Amalfi Coast) and spread the extra time among the locations or spend a few days in Tuscany. There is so much to see.

You asked about the best way to get around, mostly train with maybe some bus is my advice. You did not ask whether this is too much for 14 days. My advice is that it's way too much. You are spending barely more than two nights on average in each place, and Rome and Paris each deserve three or four nights at a minimum. As others have noted, not all of these connections are very quick though. It's your trip though so if you are set on it then go for it.

None of these destinations warrant a car. If you can take more time, then please do. Let's say, for instance, that you're only willing to cut one destination from the list:

• Positano is easy to cut - it's the furthest point and requires extra bus or ferry connections every step of the way (to, from, and around the region). Laurel's logical plan only gives you one full day there, which doesn't give you time to visit Pompeii, Herculaneum, or the great archeology museum in Naples. Your route already has hiking, beaches, views, and seafood in the Cinque Terre.

• The French Riviera could be cut by taking a budget flight from Paris to Pisa or Genoa, very close to the Cinque Terre. Or really, you could fly from Paris to any Italian city, usually both faster and cheaper than the train. www.skyscanner.com is a helpful search engine.

The money is not the issue. Please slow down and enjoy more time during your travels. Always remember that you may return. You won’t be sorry.

Laurel-- looking at the OPs other post it shows 13 nights total... I will let you figure out where to trim your proposed itinerary and make it so it fulfills the We don't want to be too rushed request. ( Good luck)

OP needs one of the Star Trek technologies to make the trip work; a transporter beam, or a warp speed conveyance

OP needs to choose between 'seeing everything' or having an 'un-rushed' experience

joe32f, I was hoping my logical outline would discourage the OP from making all these stops. Can it be done? Yes. Should it? Only the traveler can decide. I would not do this on a dare. Not my style.

Thank you for your advice. It is so hard to decide for our first time to Europe...I agree we should choose France or Italy if we want to enjoy a slower pace and not be rushed taking planes, trains and automobiles:)

What would one go to France or Italy for? How do we decide? Food, cycling, culture?

Thanks again for your help...

Kelly

Good call, one country not two. What time of year will this trip be? Italy can be very hot in summer, France not so much.

Seems like this must be your first trip to Europe. If you don't have your own ideas about which country to visit, you might as well base the choice on time of year and/or airfares and flight schedules. Both countries have wonderful history, art, food, hiking, etc. If either of you took French in high school, then go to France. If you're more interested in ancient ruins, then Italy. No one here will tell you one choice is right and the other wrong. And hopefully you'll have future opportunities to visit more places in Europe, including the country you forego this time.

We are going in May. Originally we thought of enjoying the food, cafe's and exploring the area by car. It's been very tempting and frustrating spending so much time on planning and keep coming back to square one, not being able to cover all that we thought we could. I appreciate any help you can offer. #newbie

Cafe's, biking, eating, hiking....Ok.

Start in Paris for a few nights (at least 3). Take a group bike tour of the city. Sit at any of the cafes. You'll get plenty of hiking, I promise!
Train to Burgundy (stay in Beaune) 2 nights.Rent bikes and tour the vineyards. Make reservations for dinner at any number of fine restaurants known for the cuisine.
Long day of trains (Dijon-Lausanne-Milan-Florence) and stay in Florence 3 nights. Food and lots of hiking. From there you could go to CT (not my choice) or maybe Siena and get a car to tour the area, 3 nights. Dropping the car in Orvieto makes an easy train ride to Rome 3 nights.

Except for the multi train trip through Switzerland you have easy train rides and enough time to actually enjoy where you are.

We have been to Italy twice and just returned from a three and half week trip to France. I would choose one country based on your interests. It is easy to hop around Italy by train. Driving (outside of Paris) is very easy and enjoyable in France. We took a train to Auxerre and then rented a car to explore Burgundy. We spent two nights in Vezelay and four in Beaune. We loved Burgundy, great hiking, food, wine, and quiet medieval villages like Noyers. We would have liked to spend a few more nights just in this area! If I were you I would go to Paris and then rent a car to explore one region in France or go to Rome and explore one region as Tuscany or Umbria in Italy. May is a lovely time to travel for either country. Good luck with your planning.

Since it’s your first time? and independent travelers? I would not overbook and suggest you pick maybe 2 cities to enjoy as home base with day trips. You could book flying into one city and out of another which may work. Are both of you fairly good at directions and getting to places or just one person planning and finding your way? Learning new cities, buses, train stations, metros airports in a foreign language can be stressful. You want to enjoy yourselves not always be thinking ahead as to what’s next. Either country would tic your boxes of what you like to do and you won’t be rushed.

How to decide? Pull up Rick Steves videos on this website and watch everything to do with France and Italy, then narrow the list to one of the two countries. Along the way, take note of locales that appeal to you and pick the top three (in one country or the other) and start drilling down on the details.

In France, you can easily visit Paris, the Alsace (great bike riding), and the Riviera in two weeks. No car required, IMO.

In Italy perhaps Florence, rural Tuscany (one town as a base), and Rome. You would only need a car for the portion in rural Tuscany.

Once you have decided on which country, get a Rick Steves guide for that country. You also might benefit from his "Europe Through the Back Door" for travel planning and other skills.

I am planing a 27 day trip France and Italy for next year.
I fly into Paris out of Venice
I searched train routes not to be to long and try to have direct routes
I Used loco2 for train times and routes schedules
Paris-6/Colmar France4-/ Lugano Switzerland3/- Lake Como3 / bologna Italy5 /- Padua Italy5
With several day trips Basel/Florence/Milan/Venice/ Verona maybe.

Last year we did 3 cities in Spain over 18 days
Madrid\seville/Barcelona. Fly in one city out another train everywhere

Two years ago 25 days
Athens /Mykonos /Naxos /Santorini fly / Athens /fly Sorrento /Positano/ Rome

I agree with the other posters and think one country is best but if you understand the schedules and have a game plan. It’s doable but you need time.

I think no less than 3 or 4 nights to enjoy a city
But 5-6 nights is nice for bigger cities you really start to feel comfortable
I try to have transfers in the 2-4 hour range otherwise it’s a whole day shot

Lay out your schedule and check travel times. You’ll see less is best.

Lots of reading and research. And this forum is great help

Good luck. You will love it

I totally agree that it can be overwhelming! There is so much to see!

Ultimately it doesnt matter which one you pick. Once you pick one, you will quickly start to narrow down some ideas. Watch lots of YouTube and Rick Steves videos. Check out some books at the library.

Figure 1-2 activities per day at most. Allow time for eating leisurely meals and must walking around.

Also, you can do a trip of that length for much less than $8K and have a marvelous time!

Throwing out ideas, based on your initial comments:

Fly to Paris
Paris - 4 nights
Train to Annecy is 3.5 hours
Annecy - 3 nights (beautiful area to hike, boat, and ride bikes)
Train to Avignon is 3 hours
Avignon - 3 nights (can do a day trip to Pont du Gard or Nimes. We also did a mini-van tour of the Luberon villages.)
Train to Nice is 3.5 hours
Nice - 4 nights (can do day trips to small villages and Monaco)
Fly home from Nice

Switch around total days at locations based on your priorities.

Keep in mind that if you keep your train transportation time around 2-3 hours, you can leave after breakfast and be at the next location by noon. Otherwise, if you have a 5-6 hour train, you have wasted a good portion of that day. This is very important if you start planning to stay at a town for only two nights, but it takes 5 hours to reach that town. Then you really only have one day and one late afternoon/evening.

Jean, this sounds wonderful. I think I would prefer to do it in reverse, start in Nice and end in Paris, simply because there are no direct flights going back to T.O. from Nice. We would really like to rent a car and drive around. Would it be doable to rent in Nice and drive to all those places, and then leave the car in Annecy and take a train to Paris?
And, how can we get it less expensive than $8000? Airbnb's instead of hotels?

You wrote: "how can we get it less expensive than $8000 CAD". Is this for two people?

It really helps with the budgeting if you convert your currency to Euros (5307 Euros today). The big ticket items are flights, hotels, and transportation.

This website has some pointers: https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/money/thrifty-50-tips, and this one: https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/money/the-dirty-30-more-cheap-tricks
And for flights this discussion has good suggestions:
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/flights-f385613d-4451-42f6-8e60-2b5104af74ae

Hi Kelly,

Your budget might dictate the # of days of this trip and or the locations! Simple math of $200 euros per day for lodging and another $200 per day for food, and you're already at $5,600 euros and you haven't left Canada. Even if you cut that down to $150 ea (which ain't easy in Paris & Rome), you're at $4,200 euros. As for transportation costs, figure $100 euros each for a TGV train ticket, $30-$40 ea for shorter trips. An average vehicle rental would be between $400-$500 per week.

If you can figure out the $$ part, I would suggest these three options: 1) Stay in Paris & Rome. You can fly from Paris to Rome for around $80 - $100 ea. The next two options mean that you save Rome/Italy for the next trip: 2) Paris and then train to London, or 3) Paris, and train to Frankfurt. From Frankfurt you can rent a car and work your way down to Rothenburg ob der Tauber for X nights (2 hour drive), then to Fussen for X nights (2 1/2 hour drive) and then finish in Munich ( 1 1/2 hours), X # of nights and fly home from here.

Happy travels!

Just to give you some ideas on costs, these are the locations where we stayed for the itinerary I mentioned above. I average $130/night for our hotels over the 2-3 weeks we are in Europe (usually have some small towns which are cheaper). Places like Paris will be more, others can be less. I do try to have one place where the money spent is more of a highlight and then stay in more budget locations at other cities where we wouldn't care as much. For the list below, that location would be Annecy.

Nice – I will be there next September and reserved Hotel Regence. It’s $130/night for a double bed. It will be handy to catch the tram to the train or bus to cover the coast. The bus & train are dirt cheap in that area to encourage people to not drive on clogged roads.

Avignon – we stayed at Hôtel de l'Horloge, at one of the main squares for $116/night. Very nice hotel; we loved the location.

Annecy - L'Impérial Palace, Allée de L'Impérial for $200/night. I splurged for this one, and it was a highlight. The hotel has the prime location at the lake, and it’s just a nice 5 minute walk on the promenade to the old town. We would walk over to the Boulangerie Patisserie Pan & Gato, two blocks from our hotel for the most amazing breakfast pastries & quiche, etc. instead of paying $25/each for the hotel breakfast. The cost of activities during our two days in Annecy: we rented a power boat for $60, and 2 bikes for $26. (Both of those were just steps away from our hotel.) Otherwise, we enjoyed walking all over outdoors and the ambiance of the gorgeous lake and quaint town.

Paris – hotels are more expensive here than the other locations. I picked a small hotel in the Luxembourg Garden area for $180/night. We didn't spend much time in our room; we were out most of the day.

Kaeleku's tips on using booking.com are very good ones, but I would suggest reading more than 5-10 reviews. For one thing, if there's an issue with the heating or air conditioning, you won't find out about it unless you read enough reviews to hit the time period when the heat or a/c are needed. And reviewers have different priorities; a hotel could have a problem that would be a real issue for you but that doesn't bother too many other people, so you might need to read a lot of reviews to uncover that issue.

In terms of location, the biggest problem I've had as a budget traveler is ending up in areas that have no appealing restaurants nearby. If I'm tired at the end of a day of sightseeing, I generally prefer to head back toward my hotel and eat in that area. That way I know I'll be able to crash shortly after dinner. I find it annoying when there's just nothing nearby (except maybe fast-food joints). Looking up the address on Google Maps and asking for restaurants nearby will usually reveal whether the hotel is in a food desert. If you plan to eat breakfast on the cheap by buying stuff at a supermarket or bakery instead of paying for a hotel breakfast, you'll want to check availability of those food sources as well.

Regarding budget, if you stay somewhere at least 3 nights (4 is better) an apartment, whether through VRBO, Airbnb, or Booking.com can save you money, especially if you commit to cooking a couple of meals or eating very simple Take-away meals. Picnicking for lunch helps, too.

We budget 120 Euros per night for lodging and 100 Euros per day for food and wine. I come very close on lodging, lower in some places (rural and small town) and higher in cities. It averages out. Same with food: higher in Paris, lower in Italy overall. Usually, we fall below that 100 Euro budget by a few Euros.

We cannot do a budget for you, but I can tell you I commit each place and category (food, lodging, transport, activities, misc) by date to a spreadsheet and work through it as I look at lodging. Sometimes a B&B for Euro 75 per night is the ticket that includes a generous breakfast and affords meals out for 3 nights. Other places, we pay 150 Euro per night for an apartment and we cook half our dinners and eat simply for breakfast as we would at home. I do not recommend an apartment for less than 3 nights.

Hi All, After listening to you we have updated our itinerary.

Paris 4 nights
Train to Annecy 2 nights
Train to Nice 3 nights
Fly to Rome 4 nights.

This way we can see both France and Italy a little bit of each. It doesn't seem that we will be on the go too much, since we have a good solid 4 nights in Rome and Paris. Any comments???

Any comments???

I think consideration be given to the idea of one more night each in Paris and Rome and skip Annecy ( or Nice) depending on which interests you more.

Given the geographic spread you outline 4 locations is a bit ambitious, but not horrible.

$8000CAD for how many?

Joe, there are 2 of us travelling for our first time to Europe and it's our 25th! We are ending in Rome to watch my fav tennis player Nadal "hopefully" playing in the finals.