Flights from PDX to Paris for first timers

I have never been able to make myself pop for the extra expense. I do go for the Comfort + or whatever Delta is calling it now and that cost is worth it to me.

One thing to consider is how long your vacation is? If you are going for a very short time then it might be worth it. If you've got a couple of weeks losing one afternoon to tiredness is less of a big deal.

What time does your flight arrive in Paris? I have taken the SEA -> LHR or SEA -> AMS flights and they get in around 1230 so by the time you get in to town and your hotel it's 3 or so, so not much time to kill walking around in the sunshine before you can have dinner and go to bed.

I'm not sure what you mean by minimizing travel time as the back of the plane will hopefully get to the location the same time the front of the plane arrives. I DO go for direct flights from the West Coast as I don't want to have to spend time changing planes in one of the East coast cities, if that is what you were looking at.

BTW, once you've been you will be hooked and this may just be the start of frequent trips, lol!!

Tough question, 1st Class is nicer, better food, you have plenty of room to stretch out and sleep, no crying babies in the seat behind you, you get on and off first, first through customs, etc. If this is going to be your one and only trip to Europe then I would go for it!

But if money is critical then you can fly Economy Comfort + and this gives you more leg room and the seat reclines a little more, My wife and I have been to Europe many times and we fly Economy Comfort + usually, but we're going to Italy in May for the Rick Steves 9 day tour and we have decided to go 1st Class this time because we've always wanted to see if you really get more rest up there. I'll type a report on it here when we get back. Your going to love Paris, search out Café Du Marche on Rue Cler street, great food that is not expensive.
Also make time to take the metro to Versailles and tour the Palace and Gardens, it is amazing.

Thanks! What I meant by minimizing time was that some trips can be over 14 hours or more from PDX. I am currently considering a United flight that goes from PDX to SFO then straight from SFO to Paris. Only 45 minutes layover in SFO - worried that might not be enough. An alternative would be Delta from PDX to AMS and then a short flight from AMS to Paris. But that is more pricey. We are staying 3 weeks. I just hate being jet-lagged (we are not young anymore!) BUT.... we would survive and your point about one tired day is a good one. I hope this will be a new beginning - we are both soon to be retired ;)

And to Donald, THANKS for the restaurant tip! Right now I am considering this our BIG trip of a lifetime so willing to pay for comfort (i.e., sleep)

I think you have to decide if it's worth it (it wouldn't be worthwhile for me because I'd rather spend extra money once I'm on the ground, as opposed to travel just to get there). Not even business class would prevent jetlag or being not as well rested as you would like. Sleeping on a plane is not like sleeping in a real bed. I would look at flights where you have a very short flight elsewhere (I'm thinking LAX, or the closest city from which you can fly direct) and then a direct flight to Paris after that. OR instead of spending hundreds more for business class, perhaps just go middle of the road (economy plus or whatever) and then budget in a full extra day to sleep in and get over jet lag in a nice hotel (to me that would be a better value for the money). The more sleep/better rested you are the day before the trip, the better you'll feel after the flight (getting more sleep beforehand is much cheaper than business class). If you end up doing seat upgrades, try to do them with airline miles (if you can).

I'm really biased in favor of European carriers as opposed to American ones - food and service are much better. Love Turkish Air (even their economy seats are not too tight).

Just a thought, but would you consider flying out of Vancouver, BC? While I realize this would add a layer of complication to your whole trip, the cost saving (about $500 each for the RT) might justify it. That would pay for your train tickets, or parking, at YVR and probably get you a nice seat in Economy Plus or Business class for about what you'd pay for a RT from either Portland or Seattle.
For a detailed comparison of seat dimensions for every airplane flown by every airline look at www.seatguru.com. Helps to have seen what you're getting into before you commit to specific seats. We've used it with great success for our own trans-Atlantic flights.

Peggy,

We fly out of PDX, too, and we've gone business class for several years now. Obviously, it's a big financial hit, but it's worth it to us. We're both well into our senior years with the accompanying aches, pains and sleep problems. This just makes the journey much more manageable for us. Economy was never wonderful, but it was tolerable when we were younger. Only you can answer whether it's worth the price to you.

I'm fairly picky about my flights when we're paying for business class. The value to me is in the flights over to Europe, which have lie flat seats, not in the ones within the US that have regular (although more roomy) seats, so I avoid flights that cross the US first. After a short flight to Seattle, we can fly direct to Paris. We can also fly direct from PDX to Amsterdam or Frankfurt (I think that's still available), followed by a short connecting flight to our destination. Lately, we've been flying PDX to SAN or LAX to CDG. I always check Seat Guru to see the seat configuration before I book. We once flew on a British Air flight that had a miserable configuration requiring us to climb over another passenger to get to the aisle - never again.

Just plugged in some hypothetical dates for Sept. and Economy Plus on Air Canada from Vancouver to Paris is about $100 less than regular economy out of Portland. Looks like the seat dimensions on their 777's are pretty generous too - similar to some Business Class flights I've flown on other airlines.
Some food for thought anyway.

Hi Peggy:

I fly out of SFO when I go international and I can tell you that 45 minutes would be very tight. Unless your flight from PDX comes into the international terminal you might not make the transfer. You have to take a tram from one terminal to another and go thorough security to get to the international gates. I have been lucky lately to be on the TSA PRE-Check, but if not the security can take up to a half an hour.

If you go to Versailles, be sure to take a short break at the Angelina restaurant and have the hot chocolate. OMG!!! Of the chart.
You will love Paris!!!!

Although being jet-lagged in Paris feels like "wasting a day" and a night's hotel payment, that is cheaper than paying for the upgrade, especially for two people. Even if you crash and accomplish almost nothing, you'll still be able to have a meal, see a few streets, and know that you are in Paris.

Thanks, all! Nancy - I agree and that is why I am favoring the PDX to SFO then straight to Paris from SFO. Just have to figure out more time between flights as Barbara noted, although I do think my husband looked and we would be at the same terminal. Just would hate to not have our luggage make it. Robert, it is probably not convenient for us to go to BC first, but will keep that in mind in the future! What I am comparing now are the different KINDS of business seats and trying to make sure (just discovered seat guru!) if we are going to pay the money that we get the ones that recline 180 degrees. I believe the United ones do. I have read that business class on Icelandair and some of the European airlines don't recline all the way. Does anyone have a favorite business class seat/airline?

Peggy,

I ended up booking our next trip from PDX-LAX-CDG (Delta) on the way over and CDG-SFO-PDX (Air France) coming home. I prefer Air France, but it's not an option going over. I found this itinerary on Orbitz and, then, tried to purchase it on Air France or Delta sites. Neither offered this particular itinerary, so I purchased it from Orbitz. I prefer to purchase directly from the airline, but it wasn't an option. I like the Airbus A380 for business class, so that also figured in my decision.

Peggy - I would be extremely uncomfortable with only 45 minutes between connections.

We use American miles to fly business class to Europe and feel that it is well worth it. My husband is very tall and is never comfortable in even a premium economy seat. One advantage to flying business class internationally is that you get access to the airline's premium departure lounges, like the Admirals Club, at the airports. This is a huge perk when you have a long layover in a busy airport.

I know lot of people consider it a waste of money, but I say go for it.

You also have the option of going Icelandair via Reykjavik, or Condor/Lufthansa via Frankfurt. Return on Icelandair may be tricky with an overnight in Reykjavik. Comfort class can also be reasonable on these budget airlines.

Business is SO WORTH IT for flights to Europe. My first flights were on charters (like Laker) and I've been able to work my way up to using freqy flyer miles to get into business. Forget about the "amenities" and warm nuts, it's the larger seat that converts into a bed that you want. Find a way to use credit cards for everyday purchases/expenses to rack up miles to get the seats.

However, having said that, you have to choose the airline and the airplane correctly or you're wasting your dough. Seat guru! Flyertalk! Points Guy!

A compromise for your flight might be Premium Economy. We have flown that to London and Paris (Virgin Atlantic and Air France). My husband refuses to fly in coach, and finds this to be a comfortable, reasonably-priced option. I don't believe the American airline companies offer it the same as European airlines. I'm sure you could get it on Air France from San Francisco. Although I don't sleep well on any flight, I found I have been able to function upon arriving -- walking, having dinner, and then going to sleep at a normal time for the new country.

An option to save money over business class is to book the first row of Economy Plus. At least you won't have someone's seat reclining, and you have more foot room. Of course, that means purchasing your flight early enough to obtain those prime seats.

Personally, I'd rather spend my money on something special while I'm in Europe, i.e. special tickets to something. I have been upgraded a couple of times into business class for Europe - wonderful! : )

May I suggest you use the services of a travel agent rather than poking around for the right filights? They can get you the same deals that you get online (sometimes better). You may be overlooking something that they know about. And really, there is no way to escape the jet lag even in first class. It is what it is. Pretty much after the first night's sleep at your destination,you are ready to start enjoying your vacation.

The jet lag on the return trip home is worse especially since you are on the west coast. Pretty much allow a day for every hour of time change to get over it. It's not unusual for jet lag on the return trip to last more than 4 days.

We fly business class to Europe out of SFO. There are two non-stops that I know of -- Air France and United. From what I have seen Air France has angle flat seating and I find those quite uncomfortable. I try to sleep on the flight and angle flat does not work for me. United has lay flat seats which I like much better. Another option is British Air connecting through Heathrow. That is actually, IMO, the better business class but you have to make a connecting flight at Heathrow, which I have only managed to do successfully once in three tries (I made the connecting flight but the luggage arrived on a later flight -- not a big deal because the flight left 90 minutes later). If you are buying the tickets (not using miles) and have an American Express platinum card, consider their international airline program that allows you to get one business class if you buy one at full fare. Each time for us they have been cheaper than buying two "discounted" business class tickets. The problem with that is that not every airline is part of that program -- United is not but Air France and British Airways are.

Hi Peggy,

My first choice for your Itinerary would be IcelandAir Saga class. My second choice would be Delta economy with an upgrade to the comfort seats. You can sit on the side of the plane on Delta where there are only two seats. These options are much cheaper, but more importantly faster than having a connection in the USA.

The IcelandAir business class "Saga" is really nice. They're just big comfy recliners, not beds, but the connections are really easy from Seattle and Portland. They don't fly to Portland every day, so you might need some flexibility there. It's usually around $3,000 and you get lots of Alaska Airlines miles which are pretty valuable for flights out of Portland. They stamp your passport in Iceland and they prioritize your bags, so they're first on the belt when you arrive, which makes arrival in a busy airport in Europe much more convenient. If you sit on the right side of the plane going over and left side going home, then you can control the window shade on the sunny side of the plane, which really helps since it doesn't ever get dark on that flight in the summer.

Also when you go home you would get to clear customs in Portland, which would be much faster and nicer than doing so in a bigger, busier airport.

Also, the food is pretty darn good in the front of the plane on Iceland Air. At least compared to other airlines' meals. You also have lounge access at every airport. I've never had enough time to go in while in Iceland, but it's nice when I've used them leaving Seattle on my way out and leaving Europe to go home.

We have only flown up front from/to Paris/Seattle, and RT from/to Atlanta/Amsterdam. All were Delta flights and we were on standby, hence not all legs of those journeys were up front.

Flying up front is different, but I don't sleep any better there than in the back. I definitely would not pay to do it, even now at 70.

You might use Google Flights to check the options from Portland or Seattle or Salt Lake. Then make your multi-city reservations directly with the airline of choice. You could even take the train from Portland to Seattle.

If you check out Google Flights, please note the RT calendar option that shows daily price changes.

You could explore RT SEA/CDG and use an intra-Europen airline or the train to get back to Paris. Google Flights shows some Air France one way flights from ZRH to CDG for $77 per person in September.

From what I could see, PDX/CDG and ZRH/PDX look like the easiest options. IcelandAir is the cheapest, but takes too long with too many stops, especially going home.

There appears to be a huge price difference per person between riding up front and in back. Personally, I'd rather spend that money total on something in Europe than on a few hours of riding up front.

Interesting that Icelandair now offers miles on Alaska. Also the miles on Icelandair's own program can be cashed in for $$ off a flight quite easily, so say the miles from just one return trip can be cashed in for $50 off your next flight, so are usable in small amounts.

I'll second the next class up on Condor, that usually runs the same money as coach on a legacy airline. Make sure you have a couple hours layover in Frankfurt each way to navigate the airport.

My last flight home I sprang for the comfort plus option on Delta, mostly as an experiment. I don't have huge issues with regular economy seating, but was curious to see if it was a big difference. It certainly is roomier and with the surcharge, there weren't babies/young kids nearby (if that is an issue for you). So it was better, and not so very pricey. I did book way ahead. Will I do it again? Probably.

On routes, I really like the Salt Lake - CDG route (Delta). Keeps me out of weather difficulties in east coast or midwestern cities esp in the winter, and these flights that are direct from west coast cities to CDG or AMS are real time savers.

The past few times, passport control in Paris and Amsterdam have been a real crush. I somehow prefer Amsterdam, although it always feels like I'm not going to make it (with ~ 1 hr transfer), but somehow it works out. Paris has been a zoo, with no line management going on--just a big crush. Then running for the gate. Not fun.

Great tips - Thank you to all of you! Has anyone flown business class on Condor? They are starting a direct flight from PDX to Frankfurt this coming spring.

Condor: I have seen the business class and it looked good. Try to find some online reviews, here's one http://www.airlinereporter.com/2014/10/flight-review-checking-condor-airlines-business-class-frankfurt/

Condor has been offering May-Sept departures from PDX and a lot of other US cities for years.

There are complaints about navigating FRA airport transfers so know the airport layout in advance.

Hi Peggy, I fly out of Portland once a year to Europe. I take a quick flight down to San Francisco and catch the Lufthansa flight to Frankurt and then a quick flight to wherever I'm going in Europe. This flight leaves around 3 pm from San Francisco and is on their A380 plane which is very nice. I upgrade to economy plus which is really comfortable and not that expensive.

I can't see flying the wrong direction to SFO and adding 500 miles to the journey vs. flying to Minneapolis and getting either the Delta or Air France nonstops to Paris from there. LAX and SAN are ridiculously out of the way.

There will be 3 airlines flying PDX >> MSP nonstop by August, FYI, not that it affects this journey (unless the new Alaska Air flights feed into the Paris flights).

Thanks Kathleen and Tom. Tom, I see your point about SFO and Calif being in the wrong direction - sometimes I am directionally challenged! We DID book the Condor flights from PDX to Frankfurt and then a hopper to Paris. On the way home, will fly Zurich to Frankfurt and then to PDX and, as other have mentioned, it will be nice to go directly to PDX as our entry back to the US/customs stop. Compared with other airline's business class fares, we thought it was a pretty good deal. This forum really helped - many thanks to all again!

We flew Condor in August FRA to MSP and it worked well. We were in coach. As I noted earlier there are complaints online about the connections in FRA between Lufthansa and Condor (I suspect your connecting flights are on Lufthansa) so have a good idea about the airport layout, even print out the terminal maps to have with you. In business class you should get access to the Lufthansa lounge.

For some reason German efficiency was absent during the planning of FRA airport. Also prepare for multiple security checks.

Consider flying KLM out of Vancouver BC. They have Business Class on a major sale right now through February 4th,, plus you get the benefit of the good exchange rate of US vs. Canadian dollar.

More reasons to fly "up front" include your bags coming off the plane faster and at least at CDG, you get a little "jump the security line" card to get you up front. And access to airport lounges, and theoretically better/faster treatment if your travel plans change (either by your choice or theirs).

Tom, yes, we connect to Lufthansa and have about 2 hours. Will try to figure out the airport layout ahead of time - helpful advice. Phred, we are thinking about buying "Global Entry" since we were already interested in TSA-pre status. Has anyone tried this? I am very excited to be able to lie down during the flight due to a terrible back. Any experience with which seats are best? I looked on seat-guru but they were pretty much all rated the same in business class except for the very front near the bathroom and galley.

I and my family all have Global Entry. You don't buy Global Entry. You apply for it and pay an application fee and you can be turned down if the background check that they do finds problems in your application. After you complete and submit the application, an interview is scheduled (including fingerprinting), even if you are 7 as my son was when we got him his card. It's especially worth it for us because we usually land at SFO, Newark or JFK where the lines through immigration can be absurdly long. At SFO, JFK and Newark before we were Global Entry, we had instances where we waited over an hour in the passport control lines.

Peggy, just to make sure it's clear, Global Entry is only good when you re-enter the US so if you are flying directly from Frankfurt to Portland without making a connection somewhere else in the US then it's probably not going to benefit you much. It will not help you in getting thru Immigration/Passport Control outside the US.

However, having said that, if you can get Global Entry applications processed in Portland then I would go ahead and get it.

you should look for other threads that discuss Global Entry. For me, it's been great and I recommend it. However it costs about $100, there's a very extensive online application AND a personal interview required so it ain't cheap or easy.

Peggy,

If you would like to sign up for Global Entry, I highly encourage it.

Unfortunately you can only use TSA PreCheck on US and Canadian based airlines, so you won't be able to skip the security line for you Condor flight.

Also, my mom and dad signed up for Nexus, which includes Global Entry/TSA PreCheck, and it's took about six months from the time they applied, could schedule the interview and actually be approved. It might not be the same delay for Global Entry.

Nexus might actually be another good option since you live relatively close to Canada. You would need to attend an interview at Boeing Field after your initial application. That's just a one time interview though. The benefit over Global Entry is that it's half the price of Global Entry directly for some reason and has the added benefit of using the fast lane to drive into Canada.

Here's a chart that compares the different programs: http://www.dhs.gov/comparison-chart

Nordheim

This website lists actual waiting times at each US passport terminal check for each day. Look at PDX and the waits and how they match up with your anticipated flight could help. PDX has rather short wait times. Also, note that in business class you will be at the head of the line for passport check.

Ahhh, very helpful! I didn't realize that TSA-pre would not let us get through security faster ONLY on US airlines - dang it! Or that Global Entry wasn't applicable entering other countries. Sheesh Still, we will probably do it. I have found that TSA-pre is so nice when we have it randomly on our tickets. Thanks for the tip about the waiting times as well and how long it takes to get approved. I will get on it!

Does anyone here recommend buying travel insurance. It sure is expensive. I see Rick Steves makes a few suggestions. Anyone have experience with any of them? Allianz? Trip Insure?
THANKS!

1. Business class for sure, especially if you have miles that you can use to upgrade.

2. Consider the direct flight from Seattle to Paris on Delta. You can easily drive or get a quick cheap flight on Alaska air between Portland and Seattle.

3. Definitely go for Global Entry. It is only $15 more than TSA precheck and includes all those benefits along with easier re-entry into the US. I think the only US airlines that don't recognize TSA are Frontier and Spirit.

Cheers, Doug

A different thought -- this is from a flyer who can barely afford economy much less any class extra......but a couple of years ago when I was flying San Diego to Madrid, I made an overnite stop in Boston to meet up with some friends and go from there. I stayed in an airport hotel. That was a nice respite in the long flight and I enjoyed the mini-break. Surely that must be less expensive than business class I imagine??? Losing a day wasn't an issue for me as I had a long visit planned. Just an idea. And yes, you'll fall in love with Pasis and I'm sure you'll be back and back and back. Enjoy!