First timer in France: Trip pre planning. Need Itinerary/overall help

France is a very large country with very many fabulous destinations scattered from north to south and from east to west. The rail lines tend to fan out from Paris. It's not necessarily easy or quick to get from one provincial city to another.

I'm afraid your interests are pushing you to try to go to too many places in the time you have. I'd recommend prioritizing the places you've listed and researching each one, starting at the top of your list. What are the must-visit sights in each place? How many nights do you think you'll need in each city to cover what you want to see, considering the travel time needed to move from place to place and the settling-in time when you change hotels? Compare the total time to your outside-Paris day count. Is there any time left? Are you already over-committed?

Think about why you want to go to Nice. It's an excellent base for visits along the Riviera (but you haven't mentioned an interest there), and it has at least six art museums. Most folks who go to Nice probably spend several days in order to allow for side-trips to some of the attractive nearby destinations, which include Menton, Monaco, Villefranche-sur-Mer, Eze, Cap Ferrat, St-Paul-de-Vence, Vence, Antibes, Cannes and many other possibilities. If you have no interest in such side trips (which are not really possible if you only spend one night in Nice after traveling there from Lyon) or in the art museums, I'd consider skipping Nice and concentrating on the other places you've mentioned. Train service from Lyon to Nice and from Nice to the places to the west (Arles, Nimes, Orange) is not especially fast, so eliminating Nice (which I do like) would free up some much-needed time.
 
Rennes, Toulouse and Bordeaux are not on the way from Paris to any of the other places you've mentioned.

acraven - I believe you commented on my Germany post? If so, you can see im well adept at moving from place to place and need very little settling in time at hotels. As long as I have a place to settle in for a day or 2 every few days I will be fine.

That being said, Paris, Arles, Neime (and the area) and Lyon are priorities. Specifically for the roman sights (and theres a decent amount of them in all those areas). And that is the exact same reason Id want to visit Nice. However as you stated its quite out of the way. I havnt expressed interest in the riviera only because I am trying to figure out where to go on top of the places Ive mentioned. Going from Arles down towards Monaco has many many stops and places to see, and as far as I can tell it can easily be a trip unto itself. If there are reasons to move either east or west on the way back to paris I am more than open to suggestions (as the only reason I mentioned bourdeaux etc). I do know strasbourg would be much easier to get to from paris. I dont mind 4 hour train trips for day trips from a place either. However I would prefer to be going in a general direction if I do so. I got away with using one city as a "main base" in Germany but I wont get away with that in France unless I stay in a very specific area (like you suggested for Nice).

Initially the plan was to hop on a train pretty much right after landing and head straight to Lyon for 2 days then head south towards orange/nieme/arles then head to Nice. But once I saw the travel time back up north from Nice I started to question that route. I would just prefer not to back track back towards lyon, even though it seems by far the easiest/quickest/cheapest way to head back towards paris. And that is the only part i would like to leave as is: Paris the last 3 (or so) days. It will just be easier to catch the plane. Other than the Arles area/lyon everything is up in the air. I dont expect to spend more than 3? or so days in the Arles/nieme area possibly 4. The area has a lot that interests me.

Perhaps, reconsider your plans and go straight to Nice and work your way from Nice to Lyon? That way, you would go by train from Lyon to Strasbourg. There are direct trains and the trip takes only about 4 hours. As to Marseille, I have been there 3 times without any issues but I have been only to “touristy” areas there. The traffic is horrendous.

I definitely endorse the last 3 or 4 days in Paris especially if you haven't been there. 14/15/16 just leaves you with 2 full days in Paris.

Since you are interested in Roman things, I did a bit of research and developed a DIY walk of Roman-related things for myself a visit or 2 ago. I'm happy to share my route and some of the websites I used if you are interested.

You clearly travel faster than I do but I still think you are trying to add too many things in to your time frame. You'll be back so pick out one area besides Paris.

Are you flying into Paris?
If you visit Marseille go to the Calanques: https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Marseille. If that doesn’t interest you skip Marseille. If you are interested in making the Calanques a day trip from Marseille, take a direct train from CDG (Paris airport) to the Marseille Saint-Charles station (4h): https://www.sncf-connect.com/en-en/. There are areas to avoid in Marseille so do your homework. You need a minimum of two nights in Marseille.
From Marseille take a direct train to the Avignon Centre station (1h 30m) and use Avignon as your base to visit Orange, Nimes and Arles. You’ll need a minimum of four nights in Avignon. Are you visiting Pont du Gard?
Transportation options in Provence by direct train are: Avignon to Orange (30m), Avignon to Pont du Gard (30m). Afterwards take a direct train from Pont du Gard to Nimes (15m) and Avignon to Arles (30m).
From Avignon take a direct train to the Lyon Part Dieu station (2h 30m). Sleep in Lyon a minimum of two nights. From Lyon Part Dieu take a direct train to Strasbourg (4h 30m). You want three nights for the Alsace region that includes a day trip to Colmar by direct train (30m). From Strasbourg take a direct train to the Paris Est station (2h).

JHK - Thanks for the input. The only thing about going straight to Nice is the time. Just as ending with Nice and heading back to Paris. And the way it seems to take zooms past plenty of spots that would be nice to see. I dont mind trains or the time it takes to travel, but 8 hours is basically an entire day of doing things (unless I can take a night train). Ill take a look at doing it that way though.

Pam - I was thinking of heading back to paris on the 12th, getting there later in the evening so I can have 3 full days. One of those days will be the Louvre alone. IF its anything like the vatican museum, Ill spend at least 6 hours there. To be honest I dont have a lot I want to do in paris. A day at the louvre, a day to wander and see the major sites, and a day to fill with things as I research things. Notre dam should be open by the time I go so that day will probably be that and st chappelle. Then again, the more I look who knows how many days ill spend there? I couldve easily spent 4 or 5 days in berlin and spent 5 days in athens and Rome.

I also cant only pick one spot besides Paris. I get your reasoning but thats not how I like to travel. Although, I am also trying to not bite more than i can chew. But my trips always entail a lot of travel around a country. I travel like Ill never be there again because, well, we might not be. I know its weirder than what most people do, but its how I roll.

Marypat - Id love to get to Pont du gard however I cant find ways to get there. I wont be driving and try to avoid tours. However if there is a direct way there id love to see it.

I never thought about staying in avignon. At first glance i didnt see much that interests me (although I am aware of its historical significance) but even heading directly to avignon and using it as a base makes sence. Its close to all the places I want to see downt here and now that Ive looked it looks like there are a lot of trains heading in and out of that way to larger cities. If I skip Nice/marseille and follow your plan around the avignon area, head to lyon for 2ish days that gives me 4 days to mess around with that I can make my way back towards Paris in what ever way. Thanks so much for the suggestion

Yes, going back the evening of the 12th sounds great.

With your Roman interests, I'd also suggest the Crypt Archeologique which is under the square in front of Notre Dame. The Roman ruins were discovered in the mid 1960's when they were constructing a parking garage and are now a museum. It's closed Mondays as are all City of Paris Museums. No need to purchase a ticket ahead of time for this venue.

https://www.crypte.paris.fr/en/crypt/history-archaeological-crypt-and-excavations

Found in the crypt area were the remains of probably a Gallo-Roman temple on the site. The Pillar of the Boatmen in honor of Jupiter is now on view at the Cluny Museum in the basement area which was also the Roman baths. The Cluny is also closed Mondays.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_of_the_Boatmen

You may want to visit the Carnavalet Museum (free admission, closed Mondays). They have some Roman antiquities down on the basement (-1 floor) level. Since it's free it's pretty easy to duck in there just to see a few rooms.

https://www.carnavalet.paris.fr/sites/default/files/2021-05/depliant_plan_carnavalet_11_1.pdf

There are also the partial remains of a Roman Arena called the Arenes de Lutece. Not much to see except usually the neighborhood kids playing soccer, lol, but cool nonetheless!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ar%C3%A8nes_de_Lut%C3%A8ce

There is a night train from Paris Austerlitz station to Nice- currently at 2051, arriving at 0927 next morning, and you can book solo use of a compartment. All French domestic night trains are couchettes (so you really want a private compartment, otherwise you share with up to 5 strangers). A pace from a slower, pre TGV time.

They are basic, functional trains- no frills- essentially a bed. Certainly no restaurant car. A step below Night Jet elsewhere in Europe and several steps below the Amtrak transcontinental trains. They are there to get you there, period. Just to ensure that you have realistic expectations.

If you decide to go to Nice first, you could fly from CDG, which is where I assume you would arrive, 4 hours after your ETA. If I were you, I'd try to remove from my mind concern about all the great places that I'll pass through between destinations (I know, I know, easier said than done). France has so many great places that FOMO can lead to paralysis from analysis and extremely rushed trips as one tries to see all the possible places along the way.

Would it be possible for you to fly straight into Nice (I assume you are coming from the states) and then make your way back to Paris? I hate to backtrack if at all possible. I don’t know about other airlines, but Delta has a non-stop flight from JFK to Nice that arrives at 8:15. That way you would start with a whole day as soon as you land without having another 6-8 hours of train travel

isn31c - That is good to know and is something to think about. To be honest I wasnt expecting much from a night train. Ill be so tired from the lack of sleep from the flight a regular train seat would be pretty welcomed to be honest, let alone a bed.

JHK - Right. And I am also assuming there are many options with budget airlines as well. However having never used them or even been to CDG I have zero idea of what that would entail or even options for airlines. That being said its definitely a choice.

Also I am trying to not think of the places ill miss. But at the same time that distance between Nice and paris (or strasbourg) passes by some really cool places like geneva, dijon and others. Although it looks like it would be much easier to get a train from lyon to Geneva. I agree we cant always see everything, I also prefer to do as much as possible without just cramming too much in a day. But again, this is exactly why I asked about this trip. Its not what I usually do at all, and its not the usual type of place I visit so im a bit out of my comfort zone/familiar territory. However I did just come back from Germany and was in the same situation there.

GIGI8 - The flight has been booked and the flights of flying out of Nice still brought be back to paris, or through places like Frankfurt and was more costly. Im flying out of Canada (my city to toronto direct to Paris) or id have to fly from toronto to the states and then to Nice. Id rather not have to deal with 2 sets of customs on a single outgoing trip lol.

Paris to Lyon is about 2.5 hours. And at first glance Lyon to Avignon is another 2 hours or so. At least if I nap on the train id have a bit of energy to look around that night before going to sleep. It might actually be a half decent way to combat jet lag (personally id rather to just hit the ground running after landing and stay awake to 7-10pm to reset my clock but I never sleep on long haul flights.)

pencilstealer,
Since Roman ruins and history interest you, I hope you get to Pont du Gard, a must-see, IMO. The bus from Nimes takes just under one hour and likely costs 2-3 euros. Nimes also has a well-preserved Roman arena among its antiquities. Plays and concerts are performed there from time to time. I am not a fan of Avignon and recommend Arles as a stop instead. It also has some great Roman sites. Although Orange has a Roman arena, I would drop it as being repetitive of Nimes and Arles and use up too much of your time in Provence.

Re Marseille, I feel it would be worth a visit. It is an ancient city, once a large Greek outpost (Massilia), then Roman. There is a museum of Marseille history, with lots of Greek and Roman artifacts, a Picasso museum, Palais Long champs (art), and Le Panier district (oldest part of Marseille). Also Chateau d'If, the Vieux Port, Notre Dame de la Garde basilica. There are, as in many large cities, some neighborhoods to avoid, but we have relatives who live there, and they do not spend their days in fear for their lives.

My personal opinion, with your time constraints, would be to save Nice for another trip, as it is an outlier, but you know what is most important to you, and I hope you have a fantastic time!

I'd suggest checking out Montpelier which is a beautiful university town with rich medieval history, excellent museums, charming streets and is not far from Nimes where you can see amazing Roman history and architecture. Excellent museum in Nimes too. Also, the tourist office in Montpelier offers many day trips to olive groves and wineries where you can focus on the botany of the region and hear from the experts about the natural vegetation and its influence on flavors in olives, grapes etc. Good that you are giving yourself lots of time to plan.

Judy - I am going to Nimes specifically for the amphitheater and augustan temple. However there is also the "temple of athena" that is there as well that I want to see. Of course the museum and wander and discover as much as I possibly can.

As suggested above, Staying in avignon but using it as a base to go around the area seemed like a good idea. And I really wouldnt mind seeing the papal palace and museums there. However I do see the possibility of staying in Nimes for a day and heading to Arles for a day as well. The good thing is Avignon has great train access, and there is a direct train for a good price straight from CDL airport that will take 3 to 4 hours. Hotels seem to be fairly cheap and its a great starting off point. The only down side is there is no real visible roman presence (even though its another greek/roman city). Id look around but I wouldnt be spending too much time there anyways. But the 2 main reasons are it has a direct route from the paris airport in a short time, and direct routes to the entire area and lyon (where I would be going after).

RE: Marseille. The only thing I can find interesting (other than it being on the coast) is the old roman port and museum, even though the architecture and area itself is amazing. Ill take a better look. I plan to spend a day in Nimes and arles each, other than the initial day of getting to avignon.

First I want to clarify how out of the way Nice is from the other areas i want to see. However it really is the only other city that im drawn too. So here is an alternative itinerary including Nice. Depending on how it is done I can still have 2.5 days to mess around with.

4 - train to avignon ( 4 hours)
Explore avignon
5 - nimes/pont du gard
6 - Arles

7 -8 Train to Nice (4 hours)
Nice
Leave to lyon early 9

9 - 11 Train to Lyon (5 hours)
Lyon
Leave early 11th

11-13 ???

13 (midday ish) to 17 paris