First time to France…starting research

FUN! Will you have a car? Loire Valley is lovely but we've only driven there. I bookmarked this thread as there's quite a bit on what to do around Paris, including Champagne region. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/france/paris-and-side-trips-in-january

If you are flying out of CDG/ORY the last night of your stay, I would upon arrival, continue to your secondary destination, i.e. Nice, Tours, Dijon, spend your allotted time there, then travel to Paris for the remainder of your time before departing.

One couple said they would drive.

The thing is that with the TGV fast train, it only takes about an hour and a half more to get to Provence (Avignon) than it does to Reims (Champagne), and Provence is much more scenic and beautiful than Champagne.

So don't focus so much on distances on the map as opposed to how quickly you can get to a different region by train.

6 people and 6 people's luggage are nearly impossible in a car. Did one couple volunteer to split up and each drive a car? Or do they think they can fit everybody? No bench seats in cars here, they are too small.

Were they contemplating driving right after arrival?

Kim, thank you! That sounds more like what we would want, but I thought Provence was much further. A train is absolutely NOT out of the question. I personally love them. If it end up just being 2 couples, do you think it would be more beautiful to drive or still do the train?

Nigel, it could possibly be just 2 couples.

Lulu, in most cases, it works best to take the fast train (TGV) direct to Avignon (it would take much longer to drive, and it's hours and hours on the autoroute), and then rent a car when you arrive at the TGV station there to explore Provence from there.

We toured Brittany for 10 days last summer with 4 people (myself, my wife along with 21 & 18 year old granddaughters) in a rental car and managed just fine. Six people would not be possible in my opinion.
I would advise against driving on the day of arrival. Jet lag is not conducive to making good driving decisions, especially in a foreign country.

If we take the fast train to Avignon, are there tours to the chateaus and wineries from there? Are they close? We’d like to spend maybe just a night, perhaps 2 before heading to Nice.

I’m not sold on Avignon, could be a different place the fast train stops so we can experience Provence and these beautiful places.

Took a train from Paris to Avignon and rented a car there. Stayed in Gordes and Remy de Provence for a wonderful week and would do it again in a second…..LOVE Provence and so much to do and see……charm out the wazoo and relaxed, markets to tour, quiet, lovely visits to drive to in the afternoons!

If you are visiting western Provence/Languedoc without a car, Avignon is the transportation hub and the only place to stay.

If you have a car, you can stay anywhere. I like to stay in Gordes, but anywhere can work.

If you had 2 weeks to spend in the region around Avignon, you would not run out of fascinating places to explore.

Thanks. Our very basic outline right now is Paris 3-4 nights, French Riviera 4-5 nights. Not sure where yet, probably Nice.

But I’d like to do something beautiful, like a chateau/winery inbetween those 2. But since we’re taking the fast train, we’d need a hub.

Maybe it would be better to go on to the riviera, then do a day trip somewhere close if there are places, to get what I’m after.

I know I need to get a guide book, but I enjoy hearing your real life experience and suggestions.

Like most other people, the high speed train is the way to go. 2.5 hours Paris to Marseille or Avignon beats 10 hours of driving.

I might suggest reconsidering Provence though depending on what your interests are. Although there are some nice roman ruins (Nimes, Arles, Orange, etc.), it's an area lacking in that much French history. It was kind of re-discovered 100 years ago by the wealthy as a sunny beach playground. So it's fairly devoid of castles, old churches, and chateaus.

If you do go to the coast, my favorite towns are Antibes and Cassis. Nice is ok but none of these compares to some of the great Italian seaside towns (Cinque Terra, Portafino, Positano, Sorrento, Alasi, Cefalu, etc.) or Greece or Spain or even the US.

If you want castles and history - the Dordogne is full of them, and is a compact area easy to drive. There is also the iconic Mount St Michelle. There are is Loire chateau land. If you like wine culture - Bordeaux and Beaunne (Burgundy). If you like half timbered buildings : Strasbourg/Colmar, Rennes, etc. Etc, etc.

Railrider,

I will look at Antibes and your other suggestion. I had read there is a lot to do in Nice, more so than some of the other beach towns. I can only do the beach so much, and need to have a town to shop, wander around in.

I have stayed in Positano, so I am looking for a beautiful place. Are you saying Nice is just not as charming? Is there plenty to do in Antibes, and easy to perhaps do some visiting to the other cities by fast train!

Antibes is a fairly smallish place with Picasso museum overlooking the ocean. There is a cute covered city square and some medieval streets with little restaurants. There is a small beach - actually one small beach between the harbor and the stony cliffs, and then another larger beach. There is also a city wall as I recall and on the other side a harbor. One time I was there, there was one of the largest yachts in the world 400 ft long owned by some middle eastern king or prince.

Nice is not bad at all. I have been there 4 times. It's a much larger place with long slightly curving stone beach, with a very nice and big promenade, where you see some people jogging or whatever. The beach - being stones - is not all that comfortable but people still go and lie on it. There are some various little districts with restaurants and shops. If you walk all the way down the beach, it goes up a hill and around a corner. From that vantage point you can get some good pictures. If you continue around the corner there is a large harbor where you can take a ferry to Corsica or Genoa or whatever.

Cassis is the smallest but most picturesque of the three.

There is also Cannes (a little too posh), Beaulieu Sur Mer (pleasant seaside town at the foot of the corniches), Villefranche-sur-Mer, Menton, San Tropez (made famous by Brigitte Bardot's movie), Saint-Raphaël / Frejus, Cap Ferat (estates for the super rich), Eze (hard to reach tourist attraction), Toulon (a bit gritty with some no-go areas - one of the main ports of the French navy), etc.

None of them are bad places. But to me - they are France but they lack being obviously French or having much history or historical charm. They are essentially nice beach towns - which attract various foreigners for beach fun, and were the living spaces for various famous painters (along with Arles, Aix-en-Provence, etc.). Indeed, the father of modern Italy, Garibaldi, was born in Nice which it was more apart of the Holy Roman Empire or Liguria or whatever. It's ironic and that Nice and Mention are now French.

Much of the rest of France has 1000 year old churches and abbeys, 700 year old castles, long culinary and/or wine local cuisine, half timbered homes (500+ years old?), sites of WWI, WWII, Roman or Napoleonic battles.

Feel free to private message me

Bonjour Lulu348,
This past summer I went on my first R.S. tour - Paris and the Heart of France. Guide was Rebecca B., who is truly wonderful. Consider this trip or the week-long trip just in Paris. There is also an Eastern France trip, which I will probably take next. We stayed in the Hotel b Montmartre (full name - Hotel Beausejour Montmartre; "Beausejour" means "good stay'). Excellent location in Clichy. Good place, wonderfully comfortable beds, good restaurant and very helpful staff. Also has a laundry service. Make sure you know how to use the Paris train and subway system. Always make sure you know the end stop of the line you use, the number of that line, that each line is color-coded on a map, and how many stops you need to go. I will stay at this same hotel again for a spring trip. Outside of Paris, consider Amboise which, I believe, is easily reached by TGV from Paris. Great small city, very historic, wonderful restaurants. It sits next to the Loire River and I get some great photographs of the evening sun setting behind the river. Leonardo da Vinci's final home is there. He died in the arms of the French King. Lots of delicious wine. I am a new fan of the white wines from the Sancerre region; different domaines, but each has the word "Sancerre" on the label. This is the Burgundy area, so swimming in delicious wines. Try Le Hotel Belle-Vue, where we stayed. Also from there visited the chateau of Chenonceau. I was so greatly impresssed by the beauty of this one-day manageable site. Also went to Chambord, which was interesting in a slightly horrifying way at the huge amounts of money and time and work the "little people" expended so the rich lords could stay in this "hunting lodge." One member said, after walking through and up and down, it, she can now understand why some people become socialist! If you have questions based on my trip, do not hesitate to ask me. Best wishes to you.

Outside of Paris, we’d like to do smaller beautiful villages in wine country.

How about Burgundy? Easy train ride between Paris and Dijon, rent a car or cars there and explore this beautiful and historic region. More wine than you could shake a stick at. We stayed in Beaune for a week and drove to various places most days. Beaune has tasting rooms for various regional wineries so you can sample without driving. Other towns may have similar.

Thank you Chinesebill, you’re trip sounds lovely! I enjoyed just reading it! I will look at these suggestions.

Dick, I’m very interested in Burgundy. Seems like a nice stop inbetween Paris and Nice fir a couple nights. If we stay in Lyon, can you suggest some tours to go on? It just seems if we are going by train, it would be important to stay there.

I guess I’m looking for something similar to Florence/Tuscany, where you stay in Florence but travel close by to see smaller towns, lunch and wine tasting …that sort of thing, since just 2 nights.

I haven't been to Lyon (which isn't in Burgundy) but I'd like to go. Two nights = one full day of sightseeing, so pick a city that interests you along your route and go there.

Dick, it looks like the fast train goes to Beaune. That town looks wonderful. I’m going to explore more!