Experience with Flat registration

Thank you so much for posting your experience. This will certainly help others. Those of us who live here have been warning steadily but sometimes our alerts aren't heeded. Perhaps after Dec 1st and surely after Jan 1st you'll be able to find an apartment. However, headlines like the below are certainly souring municipal authorities everywhere due to the abuse of the short term rental idea.

Good luck

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/airbnb-landlord-london-12-million-year-rental-properties-website-tax-a8048306.html
http://www.economiematin.fr/news-location-airbnb-paris-cout-rente-internet-londres-record-chiffres

Why not go the old fashioned way and book a hotel? Seems to work for many people, including myself.

Thank you for posting your report on what is happening to you. It is always helpful to hear how the vacation rental registration is playing out for people looking for short-term rentals. There are a few "legal" apartments available that are managed by hotels. Two I know of are managed by Hotel Louison and Hotel Elysees Union. Another is at La Maison Saint Germain. Or you could look at aparthotels like Hotel Residence Henri IV, Citadines or Adagio. I put some relatives in a Citadines (at the time) property for a gift trip and they loved it. Good luck.

It's interesting that Feels Like Home In Paris says that they are out of the short-term market when they are still showing apartments by the night or the week on their website. But maybe they mean to take these down after December 1 but it still feels like bad form to still have them up now. The rules the owner describes, buying a second flat, etc. have been in effect for quite some time for people renting non-primary residences such as second homes or investment property. Now, they are finally being enforced and we will see how it plays out. Maybe enough people who insist on staying in apartments will stay away from Paris that it will cause such a drop in tourism numbers that the powers that be will have to rethink enforcement of the rules. I don't think so but my powers of prediction are horrible.

I am wondering why there is this aversion to renting a hotel room? I understand wanting more home-type amenities, but is a major factor the lower cost for (what appears to be a great number of illegal) rentals?

No, I don't think returning to the hotels/legal rentals model will cause a drop in tourism; I think people go to a city to see the city, not the apartment (as opposed to a hotel).

As more and more hotel chains are including short term rental apts. in their inventories, there will be little effect on tourism as this type of accommodation will still be available through hotels and legally registered short term rental apartments. However, these hotel provided facilities will not cause problems for neighbors or extra wear and tear on private condominiums, taxes will be paid on income, safety concerns will be addressed and prices will go up.

All you need to know is if the website has the 13-digit registration number, which cannot be faked and is tied to the property owner's financial information.
If it isn't there, it's an illegal apartment.

The property owner mentioned in the OP's post sounds fishy to me. You don't have to bother to buy another property to convert it to a legal apartment. You just apply for the registration number.

" She emailed me today to explain that in order for her to register her current flat she has to buy another flat in the same arrondissement - set it up as an annual rental, then she can continue to rent her current flat as a short term/tourist rental".

What owner is describing is the obtaining of a commercial license to rent an apartment that is not one's primary personal residence. The requirements are very different than registering for short term rental of an owner's primary residence. Owner probably wants to keep her second apartment but will now have to rent it in the "long term" market which was one of the intents of stricter enforcement of the rental laws.

This short-term rental phenomena has upended housing for locals in so many places: Paris, Barcelona, Venice.... Hopefully, this will help the backlog of locals who need places to live. City of Paris subsidized housing has 10,000+ on the waiting list.

"She emailed me today to explain that in order for her to register her current flat she has to buy another flat in the same arrondissement - set it up as an annual rental, then she can continue to rent her current flat as a short term/tourist rental." This is obviously a person renting out an apartment that is not her primary residence and as such she has to obtain a commercial license. Her rental was never legal in the first place so now enforcement has caught up with her -- I'm sure it was good while it lasted but now with enforcement and higher fines for violations, it's time to do something else. In my building in Paris, one of my fellow owners owns at least three apartments in other buildings in Paris that he rents out year round through short-term, vacation rentals. He told me that beginning in December, he is going to keep the cheapest one empty for a while and see what happens, rent one as a long-term furnished rental and sell the other because he does not want to risk the increased fine. He ignored the law before when the fine was lower.

I finally moved in January, because I got tired of 5 illegal apartment rentals being rented all the time. Elevator constantly broken, noise, etc.
Now, my building has a prohibition for renting apartments illegally. I'm ecstatic.

I hope your new building works out well for you.

I wouldn't want strangers traipsing in and out of my building every day either

If I travel alone I do stay at hotels, however, the reason I like to rent apartments is because as a group of 6 it is very difficult to rent in a hotel and have a mutual area to congregate. Also, the ability to do laundry in our own space without having to go to a laundry is key. Some of the hotel apartments do have a place to relax in a mutual space but don't include the laundry. I'm not a sink washing person. Also, most of the apartment hotels are tailored for a family traveling and not adult groups. I want to sleep in a bed not a sleeper sofa.

I think it's worth noting that these particular registration issues are Paris-centric. Besides the areas under the size of 200,000 that are example, the larger cities affected by the law all have varying processes in place. For example, Nice has a very streamlined process for registration and change-of-use classification, as 2nd homes and rentals are more common.

Having rented several apartments in Paris in the past, I’m watching this post with interest. At this point, I’d be very wary about renting for the coming year until after the first of the year. As to the question of why one would choose an apartment over a hotel, we travel for 4 - 5 weeks at a time and it’s nice to have a break from eating out three meals a day. I love walking to a patisserie each morning for goodies to enjoy with juice and coffee at the apartment. We often eat lunch out and have a baguette, cheese and fruit for dinner. Along with a bottle of wine, it’s a perfect dinner for us. That you can’t do in a hotel.

No one should have to explain why they prefer hotels over apartments or vice versa. I used to rent apartments when my children were younger but I always preferred hotels. Now, even 8 week trips, I choose hotels unless I am traveling with more than 6 people. Some people prefer hotels and others prefer apartments. People should not have to defend their choice of either type of accommodation.

I can do all of this and more in a hotel.
Just popping into a patisserie or going to a supermarket is simple enough, if there are only one or two of you. There's usually a table and chairs for a picnic.
And frankly, I love a good hotel bed.
Ikea beds at rental apartments are for the birds!!!

Okay I will reply - I posted the first notes to simply identify some of the experiences I had had while looking for a flat.
I DID NOT intend it to become a discussion/debate about hotels vs flats. Since some people cannot seem to understand why I would like an apartment I will enlighten them.
I love to cook!! When I travel I settle into a flat in a neighborhood and then head out to shop the local markets and shops. This is how I meet the people, get to practice some usually bad language skills and just absorb the sense of how living in a place feels. Food is a building block of much of every country's traditions and culture and a great way to get to know about each. I have met locals at shops and ended up sharing meals together in my flats and their homes.

This thread has been very enlightening, thanks to the OP for sharing his/her experience.
Is there a list of which cities which will be effected by this law? I understand it is for cities with a population over 200,000, but I'm looking for a quicker way to figure that out than googling each city I am interested in visiting.

Google “French cities by population” and check the list for the cities in which you are interested.

@Kate -- Major cities impacted include Marseille, Bordeaux, Nice, Lyon, Montpelier, Strasbourg, Lille, Nantes, Toulouse, Rennes, I believe.

In Paris, Nice, and Bordeaux, registration is compulsory for all rentals (there may be others). Rentals in Paris, Nice, Marseilles and Strasbourg also require a change of use for rentals where the days total more than 120 per year. Nice's process is very straightforward, unlike the one in Paris.

Thank you, Gooster! This will be very helpful in my trip planning!

After all the talk that AirBnB was going to ban listings without the registration numbers and also drop apartments that exceed the 120-day rental limit, I read today that they are only applying the 120-day limit to apartments in the 1st through the 4th arrondissements. Also, they are not requiring the registration numbers. Instead the system is being set up to allow the registration numbers but not require them. So while I thought there would be real clarity at least on AirBnB beginning after December 1, it seems that there will still be a lack of clarity that will turn cause confusion for people looking for "legal" apartments on that site.

Strange situation

The city of Paris has been very lax in putting a system in place that allowed for visibility of apartment status and was apparently counting on Airbnb to facilitate Paris': work to identify incidents of non compliance. Ha! Why should Airbnb help the city of Paris.?

As Gooster points out in a couple of posts, Nice managed to accomplish the task in sane manner. Paris just isn't working very well on this.

This sloppiness ensures that a maximum number of people will be hurt . . . tourists, owners, residents . . . and whatever reputation Paris' various officials have for efficiency will go right down the tube. All of this with the tremendous housing needs for the Olympics coming up.

Joni - there are acceptable kitchens, and there are worse kitchens, in apartment rentals.
Most people don't have time to cook because they work, and rush to Picard the first chance they get to make dinner.
Most people don't have time to peruse the open-air markets, because they work, and they are held on weekdays or weekends, when everyone is busy doing something else.

Two words...home exchange! You still get the experience of living in a place with the convenience of a home but it's legal and free!

"Two words. Home exchange" . Always assuming, of course, you have a home acceptable for an exchange.

It takes a lot of time and effort to set up a "home exchange". Better prepare yourself for lots of back-and-forth emails, photos, etc.

I'm pickin' up what you're layin' down there.

Has anyone else noticed that the calendar is no longer viewable on rentals on AirBnB? I thought it was just Paris but it looks like it is everywhere.

There are people who play "fast and loose" with their calendars, hoping to get someone who will stay longer than 2 days, rather than 1 week or so.
There are property owners who are probably ready to sell, too, which takes typically 3 to 6 months.

Hello to all interested parties. I just wanted to let you know that after a "few" hours of searching I did find a "registered" flat in Montmartre - just around the corner from the one I rented before. I have been in contact with the owner - it is his own home which he rents out when traveling on business -through AirBnB. He said registering was a lot of paper work but he managed to meet the requirements. This may not be everyone's idea of the ideal place to stay - the old flat vs hotel debate - but it is exactly the type of place we love.

This has been an informative thread - thanks to all who posted. I'm planning a week in Paris for our family of five, and had only been considering a flat rental because we wanted the extra space. With two teens and a tween, a little breathing room will make for a much more enjoyable vacation for everyone. Plus, from the perusing I've done to date, we'd need two hotel rooms in most instances, and that's far more expensive than most flat rentals. And finally, a spot to eat family meals that isn't a restaurant certainly helps the budget.

Though I've locked in our other week's accommodation in London already, I'm sitting back until January and hoping for the best. Sadly, my google map with 20+ interesting and affordable flats I spent the summer researching will likely end up being useless now.

Dani and others,

Don't be discouraged yet. Like you, this thread has been useful. I had four flats in Paris I have been tracking for a couple weeks on AIRBNB or VRBO. The owner of my first choice in the Latin District said to get back to him on Dec. 1. I checked today and easily found his 13 digit registration number, so booked it for mid-May. I would suggest you check daily on your top 3 or 4 flats, and see what pops up!

The City of Paris has decreed that AirBnB will have to "wipe" their calendars, when the time limit of 90 - to 120 days is reached.
It will probably be 90 days, though.

Hi Everyone,

So grateful to have found this thread. I am looking for a flat at the end of March and I am searching the typical sites: airb&b, trip advisor, homeaway, Vrbo . .. (if there are others, please let me know). What I am curious about is where you are finding the registration numbers in the online listings. Hours of searching has resulted in beautiful options, but I am unable to find registration numbers.

Like some others who have written here, I too am a little surprised about the hotel vs. apartment rental debate on this thread. I don't see why reasonable people have to pick sides - I'm sure it makes sense to do one or the other in many cases. I've had great experiences with AirBnb and hotels in Europe (including a wonderful AirBnb apartment in Paris a few years ago). As to Joni's original comment - perhaps this will take more than a year to solve, but soon enough the market and apartment owners in Paris will adjust to the new rules and there will be plenty of legal options to rent flats in Paris to tourists who find that a good option, especially for those wiling to book a little earlier.

Leighann and others,

It appears that I am the only one that has found a registration # on a flat reservation so far. Not sure if that is good or bad! Anyway, I just double-checked the advertisement for the flat I rented via VRBO. It is property # 6374360. The registration number is in bold letters at the bottom of the initial "about the property" section. It is 13 digits as discuss in this thread, so think I am good.