Dream France-Switzerland Trip

It's obvious you've spent a lot of time studying the area.

Have you taken time to go on MapQuest and figure out how far it is from point(s) A to point(s) B? Distances can be far greater in Europe than you realize.
I think you're trying to see far too many places. I would hate for your trip to be a complete blur.

I prefer to go to one central location doing day trips for 3-4 days by rental car. Then move down the line to another central located city. You get more out of the trip if you get more intimate with a small city. Every time you move from city to city, you lose a whole day.

I love the ambition of your plan but feel if you temper it a little your travel rewards will be greater.
Firstly, I would forego St Tropez in favour of an extra day in Provence (Avignon/Nimes/Arles).
Secondly, i would choose more time in Switzerland as a more attractive alpine option compared to Chamonix, especially at the end of summer.
Thirdly, I would like an extra day in Paris.

Your itinerary is way too hectic for me with way too many hotel changes but that's a personal opinion. My only suggestion would be to turn in the rental car when you get to Nice, it would save a couple of days car rental costs and it's not really needed for what you want to do. It's very easy to get to Monaco by train (cheap and fast and no hassle or cost of parking) and St Paul de Vence is easily reached by local bus and you don't need it to explore Nice.

I would wonder about this:

Day nine
Schiltornbahn Cable cars up mountains ( Stechelberg – Gimmelwald – Mûrren – Birg) - Self Guided Walk through Grimmelwald Overnight in Lucerne
Day ten
Train on Golden Pass from Lucerne to Montreux. Visit Interlaken on stop. Train from Montreux to Lausanne. Overnight in Lausanne

Not because you shouldn't do the Schilthorn, because you should because it's worth it, but because you're going to Murren from Lucerne, then back, then coming back to that area.Maybe spend the night in Interlaken or Murren instead of training back? And reviews on Interlaken are mixed, you might reconsider visiting.

Also, I'm guessing you will be on the train that gets into Montreux around 4 or 5 PM. You'll need to change trains to continue on to Lausaunne, perhaps you want to stay in Montreux that night?

Thank you so much...your recommendations are exactly what I am looking for. I am a little lost in Switzerland. Please recommend more sites to see between Lucerne and Montreux???

As suggested above ...
Firstly, I would forego St Tropez in favour of an extra day in Provence (Avignon/Nimes/Arles).
Secondly, i would choose more time in Switzerland as a more attractive alpine option compared to Chamonix, especially at the end of summer.
Thirdly, I would like an extra day in Paris.

Day one
Toronto - Paris (overnight) - day walking through Paris with self guided walk. Overnight Paris
Day two
Paris - Louvre and Montmartre - walking a lot. Overnight Paris
Day three
Day trip to Versailles. Trying to decided between guided tour or on our own??? Any suggestions??? Overnight Paris
Day four
Extra day in Paris
Day five
Train from Paris to Rouen. Rent a car in Rouen. Self guided visit in Rouen. Drive to Bayeux. Overnight in Bayeux
Day six
Drive from Bayeux to D beaches. Visit beaches. Drive to Mont St Michel. Overnight in Mont St Michel
Day seven
Visit Mont St Michel. Drive to St Malo to return rental car. Train to Strasbourg. Overnight in Strasbourg
Day eight
Do a private Wine Road Tour Strasbourg to Colmar. Overnight in Strasbourg
Day nine
Boat ride in Strasbourg. Train from Strasbourg to Lucerne. Overnight in Lucerne
Day ten
Lake Lucerne and Mt Pilatus http://www.pilatus.ch/ Overnight in Lucerne
Day eleven
Train to Interlaken, then excursion to Murren or Jungfraujoch. Overnight in Interlaken
Day twelve
Train on Golden Pass from Interlaken to Montreux, then on to Lausanne. Overnight in Lausanne
Day thirteen
Train from Lausanne to Lyon. Visit Lyon. Train from Lyon to Avignon. Rent a car Visit Avignon. Overnight in Avignon
Day fourteen
Day to explore Provence by car - Nimes, Pont du gard, St Remy. Overnight Avignon
Day fifteen
Drive from Avignon to Nice with a stop in Cannes on the way. Return rental car. Overnight in Nice
Day sixteen
Drive to Monaco. Spend day visiting Monaco. Overnight in Nice
Day seventeen
Drive to St Paul de Vence, Visit St Paul de Vence. Visit Nice. Overnight in Nice
Day eighteen
Return rental car. Flight Nice to Toronto.

Another problem... pinning your Alpine hopes and dreams to specific dates without the benefit of a short-term weather forecast. Your entire Alpine excursion plan could be a bust if the famously tempermental mountain weather gods do not look favorably upon you. The rule of thumb- budget at least two full days in any one Alpine location to spread your odds, and ascend at the first opportunity of good weather. Otherwise, your dream cable car ride to the peaks becomes little more than an excursion into endless white-out.

Yes they say its only one in three days that its worthwhile to visit mountain top locations.
Even less so for the clear blue sky vistas you see in the photos.
Fingers crossed.

You definitely have an aggressive schedule. I have been to all of the places that you list, but I did it on 4 trips of two weeks each.
I too would recommend scaling back, so that you can relax and enjoy the beauty/ comforts of the areas you are visiting.
Unless you've been to Paris before, it is easily worth 3-4 days. Don't miss Orsay, Saint Chappelle, Invalides.
Switzerland (Murren/ Wengen) is amazing and worth at the minimum 2-3 days. It sounds like your group is athletic, so take time and hike some of the trails that offer amazing views.
Chamonix is even more amazing (IMHO). Don't just take the Aiguille di Midi; there are many other lifts that access other wonderful spots. 2-3 days here. Lyon didn't do much for me. Annecy is close to Chamonix and shouldn't be missed.
If you are in to wine, consider staying in Beaune instead of Lyon.
You are skipping the Loire Valley and the chateaus, which I would recommend over Versailles and Mont St. Michel, but that's just me. The history of the D-Day beaches are worthwhile, especially if you had relatives who landed there.
If you're going to Avignon, don't miss Arles. More Roman history and not as cluttered. Isle d Sorgue is also worth a visit, especially on Sunday (Market Dai).
Skip St. Tropez and visit Eze and Villafranche instead. If you can, spend a night or two there. Monaco and Nice are definitely worth the time.
Obviously, take these with a grain of salt. I'm sure others will have other opinions.
Enjoy your trip!

Most train connections from St. Malo to Strasbourg take 7 hours, require 2 changes , and cost a minimum of €66 per person if booked 3 months in advance. The most convenient, with only 1 connection, currently depart at either 6:00 or 13:00, so 13:00 would be my choice.

Or consider keeping the car longer in France, with 4 people to fill it. Another day or two on your rental car should not cost much, and dropping in a different city of France also should not, although you must factor in highway tolls and fuel costs; for these see www.viamichelin.com or an estimate at http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/car-rental-costs. You could use your car for the wine road exploration, saving the local tour cost there, unless your tour plan was more about not drinking and driving. The decision will probably not come down to cost, but to how you like to travel.

You can visit mountains near Luzern or mountains near Interlaken, but don't go to Luzern with the primary goal of day-tripping to the Interlaken area. Within Switzerland from the border at Basel and all the way to Chamonix, you might use a Swiss Travel Pass for 4 consecutive days, but wait to see what they actually offer in 2016; you can't buy it more than 6 months ahead.

If driving along the coast Avignon-Marseille-Nice, you will have complete schedule freedom and probably some group savings with 4 people in the car, but you're not seeing anything that you could not reach by train. If driving inland, you could visit more towns and rural areas (like the Grand Canyon du Verdon) that are not well served by public transport.

I second the wine region outside Beaune, unless you live near such a region (like Napa or Santa Ynez in California) it's great to see the stuff growing, and of course then there's the sampling. And Dijon is a major TGV stop.

As far as ascending the Alps, the good news is there are now multiple resources to check weather a week or a few days or the day of travel. Before I left Bern for my daytrip I confirmed that the weather atop the Schilthorn would be mild and sunny, which indeed it was.

Switzerland was one of our favorite countries. Our 3 nights/2days there included staying in a ski resort town in the French speaking part, called Crans-Montana; day one touring we explored our town, then drove down to Castle of Chillon for a tour, walked along Lake Geneva towards Montreaux and it was a perfect day! The castle was a very good tour and the walk along the lake was gorgeous. Montreaux area by the lake was full of people, stores and eating places. Cool area.

Day two, we traveled to Zermatt to see the Matterhorn and that was an amazing day as well. We got to take the train to Zermatt and then the lift cars up to the Sunnega area to get the best views of the mighty Matterhorn. Gorgeous area and incredible day!

I would spend more time in Switzerland if I could. It was spectacular!

Suzanne, I think the timing in the France portion of your trip looks good. You have built in rest time on the trains and you have fairly open days. I do have a couple of suggestions. 1. I love trains, but I think you might be better served flying on day 6 to Strasbourg. I find changing trains to be stressful and 7+ hours is a long ride especially with 2 changes. 2. 15, 16, 17: On these days you should compare public transportation with car rental. Public transportation can be more relaxing. Have the 4 of you traveled together in a car before? Do you argue over directions? Public transportation allows everyone to see the scenery. 2 1/2. I found Monaco to be extremely uninteresting unless you plan to gamble. Just another money town. It is easily accessible by bus from Nice. If you take the high bus, you can stop at adorable Eze, one of my favorite spots, and then maybe just turn around in Monaco. I also agree with Larry about Villefranche. Again, I find the timing of the France portion to be very doable. Sounds like a great trip. Wray

Day 5 - I think that trying to do any justice to the D-Day invasion area and then drive all the way to arrive at Mont St Michel in only one day is really cutting it short. Unless the 4 of you know nothing of the invasion and are just driving past so you can say you have been there you will be seriously shortchanged.

I was in Bayeux for 6 nights and still had a great deal yet to see. Half a day is way short. The area is over 50 miles long, country lanes, excellent museums, cemeteries which take time to give respect and are emotion creating, a lot to see and get your 4 heads around.

Dream trip - if too quick could become a nightmare, a nightmare maybe not for all four of you but maybe for a few...

I agree with other comments about day 6.

France is roughly the size of Texas plus a bit. You are talking about going from Amarillo to College Station via Waco. Much easier to fly or break it up with a night in Paris.

Trains coming and going from Paris from different parts of France use different stations, and virtually all long distance trains in France start or finish in Paris.

St Malo goes into Gare Montparnasse in around 3 or 4 hours, then you have to get over to Gare de l'Est for the 2 and a half hours to Strasbourg.

For the 13 stops on the ligne 4 Métro between the two stations I would allow 60 to 90 minutes.

That's a LONG day, especially with luggage....

Look into easy jet. My husband and I flew from Rome to Geneva for around 25 Euros and again Geneva to Paris for around 28 Euros. We booked it early as fares rise closer to the date.

I wish we had not wasted a day at Versailles. We got there early, about an hour before opening with tickets in hand and it was the longest line we had to wait in on our trip(security line). Plus it was outside city limits. There were so many tourist and tour groups. I wouldn't go back. Guess I can say I went but that is all. if you are going to see a palace, Rick recommends other ones at the end of the Versaille chapter, I wish we had gone to one of the other ones after talking to people. We used Rick Steves pod cast. Joining a tour group would have eliminated the security screening line but I don't think I would have enjoyed it more. The grounds are nice, don't take the petit train (SLOW, long lines) just walk down to the lake. the map makes it look further than it is. You can rent a golf cart at the lake if you want.

I wouldn't waste anytime in Montmarte. Go to the Sacre Coure Church and than go to a different part of Paris. I would sub the island next to Notre Dame (Rue Saint Louis). We did Notre Dame than got ice cream at Berthillon on Rue Saint Louis and than walked to the louvre. I did like the Sacre Coure over Notre Dame as far as beauty and the view from Sacre Coure is amazing. Montmarte was the grossest part of Paris, dirty, beggars everywhere. We went to see the church and thought it would be fun to walk around moulin rouge area. Every local we talked to, even the cab drivers, were warning us of pick picketers and purse snatchers. The three $$$ rating restaurant that rick recommended in that area was closed so we did cafe plumeua. It was nice but I would be cautious of any other restaurants down the hill. We went to Versailles, took uber from there to Sacre Coure, had dinner, walked back to the church, took pictures, walked down the hill and down the street with all the touristy shops(same stuff you can get all over paris) and turned right on the rue de cliché and walked down to moulin rouge. The street was full of sex shops, don't think i could have eaten at any of those restaurants. Just my two cents, paris is beautiful, don't waste your time in the slums. We used Uber cab from Moulin Rouge to Paris, it was 15 euros, worth every penny to get out of there. We used Uber a lot in paris, save time, flat rate and if there are four of you, it is worth it. Save your feet.

Lake Geneva was amazing. We were in Montreux during the jazz festival and did a jazz boat cruise around the lake. We also went to Chamonix. It was a lovely break in-between rome and paris. I have family there so we did not do a lot of site seeing. Next time I am going to Gimmelwald.

Have fun!

Never have I been so impressed with a travel forum!!! Thank you so so much for all of your recommendations...I am slowly reworking our itinerary taking everything into account. I will share the revised itinerary and am sure it will make a lot more sense for a more pleasant trip. Again THANK YOU ALL... and keep those ideas coming.

We also loved the Basilica of Sacre Coure in Montemartre and the Artists Quarter up the hill behind it is a lovely place too. We rode the little gondola lift up to the Basilica, toured the beautiful church, walked up and behind it to the Artist Quarter and had a nice time sampling food and drinks. We did see the scam stuff in that area but it wasn't too bad. It was one of our favorite places in Paris and I preferred the Basilica over Notre Dame (although it was also amazing and impressive in its own way). After we spent time in the Artist Quarter we walked down the steps from the Basilica and the walk down was very nice. We had a coach bus waiting for us so I'm not sure how others get around but we did not see any seedy or dirty areas with what we did. Our bus later drove us by the Moulin Rouge area but we did not stop.

There is a direct train from Rennes, near St. Malo, directly to Strasbourg. It takes 5:30 hours, no need to change trains. I've taken it from Metz to Rennes. You can turn your car in at the Rennes train station.
Easy Jet usually doesn't fly routes beginning and ending inside France. Try Air France and its off-shoots, as well as small local airlines as listed on rome2rio.com.

Basic tools for riding the rails:
www.seat61.com
www.parisbytrain.com

www.bahn.com (German train system but with extensive train schedules elsewhere.

http://www.aeroportsdeparis.fr/en/homepage

http://www.ratp.fr/en/ratp/c_21879/visiting-paris/

http://en.voyages-sncf.com/en/

www.capitainetrain.com/en
same prices as voyages-sncf, but some folks find it easier to make purchases.

www.skyscanner.com is good for Europe's budget one-way fares to compare to train travel.

For the Normandy beaches you can consider staying in Caen, which has a larger selection of tourist services than Bayeux.
At the risk of breaking your budget, I strongly suggest taking a guided tour to the World War II beaches, and spend the day. Coming from Toronto, you may be Canadian and would benefit from a Juno Beach tour, including the killing-fields tank battles near Caen. You pay for the guide's expertise more than for the transport and, unless you are travelling with an historian, will never duplicate the insights on your own.

You will be jetlegged, tired, and possibly dizzy the first day. You will want to take it slow the first day or two to recuperate. Maybe just dinner in Paris the first night and a little bit of walking. The Louvre might be a bit much for your second day, but could be manageable. Buy your tickets in advance or get them from a tobacco shop in the basement of Carousel du Louvre to avoid hours in line. If you know what you want to see in the Louvre, then map it out in advance. It is very big and easy to lose track of where you are. Bathroom lines at the Louvre were very long today, there was no soap, and the hand dryers were not working. Bring hand sanitizer. If you are taking the RER C from Paris to Versailles, part of RER C is closed for renovations. It is only open between Javel and Versailles. The Javel station and nearby Metro are very crowded on account of this. Buy your tickets for Versailles one or two days in advance, to avoid ticket line and to make sure weather is nice for exploring gardens. Even with tickets the entry line can take an hour or two. You can avoid waiting by buying a tour (might have to book further in advance than a day or two). Expect the inside to be very, very crowded. If you don't buy a tour, bring something to hold up above the crowd so your group can find you if separated and bring something to eat/read in line. If you go on a Tuesday, the fountains will be running weather permitting. Most trains will have limited storage for bags at either end of the car, and some may offer overhead storage. It may be difficult to fit a lot of luggage. Make sure you have locks for your luggage since it will be separate from you. If anyone in your party needs Dramamine for flying, they might have trouble with the train rides. Ears may pop when going through tunnels and train ride may cause some dizziness. I agree with everyone else that you will enjoy your trip more if you rest at each location for a few days rather than near constant travel. Be sure to wear comfortable shoes since you plan to walk a lot (Paris can be hard on the feet). I've seen skechers, tennis shoes, and, of course, sandals, but not too many gym shoes. Sandals are good for keeping cool but not very good for foot support.