Dordogne - do we have enough time? And pesky transportation...

The Dordogne is awesome, so great choice. (My wife and I blew through there in less than two days on our 2003 trip. If I could pick one region of France, as great as they all are, this might be the one). It's surrounded by other parts of France so it feels very, very French.

I also find it problematic planning how to get there though. Flying into Toulouse seems logical but the flights are very expensive when I have checked. I have concluded the best approach would be to fly in and out of Barcelona, train to Perpignan to get rental car.

We were there in September, not sure if they do canoe trips then. My general impression was not, but we passed through quickly and that was obviously quite a number of years ago.

Trains to this region don't seem to be as fast as say, to Provence. Since you want to combine with Paris, maybe train to Limoges and pick the car up there? On bahn.de there is a nonstop train from Paris at around three hours, so worth considering.

Plenty of canoe trip availability in September. We were there the first week of September this year. We love this area -- have spent a week there twice and driven through a couple of other times for a day or two. The food is fabulous and the small villages are just great. It is very slow going and so I would organize around one or two main things a day and then do the rest if you have time rather than rushing.

If you can't get into the Font du Gaume (get your reservation now if there are any left. The few slots go up the first week of January for the year) then try Roffignac for a 'real cave' as well as Lascaux II for the excellent recreation.

You're unfortunately correct on the difficulty of getting there and basically needing a day to do so. It's a real shame, but it IS so beautiful once you get there. You'll love it.

The 11:52 IC train departing Austerlitz station should work, assuming no serious flight delays. Full fare €73 in 2nd class to buy a train ticket in the station.

Not necessarily faster, but another possibility would be the direct TGV train departing from CDG TGV station to Bordeaux at 10:15 (arrives 14:35, full fare €85 in 2nd class). Then, you could either pick up the car in Bordeaux or take a 16:00 regional train to Sarlat, arriving at 18:50.

Remember that pre-booked discount tickets are no good if you miss the train. (Even full-fare tickets have a relatively short deadline to exchange.)

It worked out nicely for us to Fly into Paris, train to Tours, rent a car there and spend 2 nights in the Loire Valley, then drive to the Dordogne.

Since you want time in Paris anyway, consider sleeping you first night in Paris and then taking the train the next day. This removes the stress of making your train connection shortly after your arrival at CDG or losing your money if you miss the train. It also accommodates your jet lag and gives you time in the city. You would miss the Saturday market in Sarlat, but you could catch the midweek one, if you extend a day in Dordogne. You are just moving a day in Paris from the end of your trip to the beginning.

Hi,
I think your time line of four full days is perfect. How many of the C's (caves, chateaus, castles, churches, canoeing) do you really want to see/do? We went to one cave, it was amazing, and it was enough. We did canoe in early October, it depends on the height and safety of the water. Sarlet is a great central location.
Have a great trip! JR in Orange, CA

Sounds like the general consensus is that our time for the Dordogne would work! And canoeing! I'm still waiting to hear back from the walking tour company. Hopefully that would work out as well.

Is it likely these trains to Brive/Périgueux would sell-out? We got burned really badly on our last trip buying tickets at the counter going from Madrid to Seville. They were sold-out of regular fare tickets until several hours later. Had to still wait a couple hours for a train that we could only get first-class seats for and it cost us a very pretty penny. I think I would rather pre-buy tickets at a discount and if we lose the gamble the cards would have to fall where they may. I'm inclined to book the Périgueux 10:41...

Thanks Janet for the tips on the caves...I'll have to see what's available!

Any of your train options could sell out, and 2nd class is usually the first to fill up, since both the TGV and IC trains specify compulsory seat assignments. But I can't judge the likelihood of that.

Arriving at CDG can take some time. The place is huge, and the immigration line can sometimes take as long as an hour, depending on volume and staff. LeBusDirect Line 4 purports to take 1.25 hours to reach Montparnasse station (after stopping at Lyon station). A taxi would be faster, but either bus or taxi can be slowed by traffic.

I still like the idea of the train that doesn't require going into central Paris.

Laura, I have heard there will be a new schedule for the new TGV to Bordeaux. Any idea when that would come out?

Also, I've never been but I was under the impression that Bordeaux is a big city. I have concerns negotiating it after a long flight. We found driving in France to be a pleasure but a large busy city might be difficult? We could train to Bergerac for a car rental there but that also adds another step. Thoughts?

Bordeaux IS a big city and I haven't been there. But Googling a driving route from one of the car rental offices near Bordeaux Gare Saint-Jean, it looks like you can get out of the city center and onto the N230 ring road pretty quickly.

Truth is, all of these options have some degree of difficulty or frustration.

We picked up our car from Hertz at Gare St Jean a couple of years ago and it was really easy. Hertz had there garage a bit up the road (towards the river) from the rental office which is on the back side of the station. From there it was a couple of quick turns and onto the bridge out of town. Returning the car there was very easy as well.

The Dordogne is wonderful! We've been 3 times, and will definitely go back. We took our 18yo daughter there last year, and her question, as we drove through the gorgeous countryside, was "why don't more Americans go here?"

We've done the getting there several ways, though from Paris, always going to and from Brive rather than Perigeux. One trip, we went to the train station from the airport, getting tickets (ahead of time) for whatever train was a safe amount of time after our arrival at the airport. We made good time, got to the station for the next-earlier train, and were able to switch the tickets for that train for some very cheap change fee, such as 5 Euros.

One time we flew into Bordeaux, and spent our first night in St. Emilion, also a beautiful town with a huge wine heritage, but obviously if you did that, it would take away from your time in the Dordogne.

All the times we've visited, we went to Paris via Brive on the early train, 9 something. The drive up from Sarlat is beautiful, especially in the morning, with the mists rising up from the curve of the hills. The rental place we use, Europcar I think (through Auto Europe, which we've used about 10 times) is about one block down the street from the station.

Oh, and we've decided we prefer staying in Sarlat. We love being able to wander around the streets in the evening or the morning, and there are definitely enough great restaurants that can stay there and have wine with dinner without having to worry about driving afterward. We stayed once in Domme, and it was beautiful, but a hassle going up and down the hill every time we went somewhere. We stayed in a wonderful, marvelous B&B on our last trip to Sarlat, La Lanterne (we had tried to stay here on a previous trip, but it was all booked up). The owner is so kind and wonderful, and the place is comfortable and pretty.

Font du Gaume is the only cave with colored paintings that visitors are still allowed to enter. We have been three times, and its one of the top 10 man-made sights that I have seen in my life. Very impressive. We went to Lascaux II for the first time on this last visit, and while it was interesting, we were packed in like sardines.

One of my favorites castles is Chateau de Commarque. In addition to the ruinous castle, which is being more restored every year, there is evidence of earlier habitation in the cliff below the castle. I also like Puymartin. This is in addition to Beynac and Castelnaud, which you already have on your list.

I'm envious of your trip!

Oh, I'm envious too. And I strongly second the recommendations for La Lanterne and the Château de Commarque.

Neil, thanks for the confident vote of driving out of Bordeaux!

There is a provisional timetable for the new TGV line. The first train we could catch to Bordeaux from CDG would be at 12:15, which means we'd be sitting at the airport for a while (unless we have a flight delay).

Lexma, you have me so excited to visit the Dordogne! You make it sound so wonderful :)

I definitely want to add the Château de Commarque to our itinerary - I love ruins so this sounds like a great combo of castle and ruins. Just need to find the right spot for it in our plans. I am wondering about visiting first thing on Day 2 after exploring the market in Sarlat. We'd just have to cut something else but it sounds like we should get our fill of beautiful villages in the area so maybe we should consider cutting our "beautiful villages" time short that afternoon so we can visit it.

Thanks for the recommendations for La Lanterne, and they do have a room available...before I got your recommendations I did find a very romantic looking B&B in Cenac-et-Saint-Julien (slightly west of Domme). It looks idyllic and lovely. But, you have me wondering if it might be too quiet? We're in our early 30s and while we aren't looking for much nightlife, we may want a just a little nightlife. The only time we've ever stayed "out in the country" was a B&B on the outskirts of Kenmare in Ireland. And, truth be told we didn't care for it because: 1. We didn't like driving in unfamiliar places later at night when it was very dark. And 2. It limited our ability for us to both be able to enjoy a drink and then drive back to our B&B. Perhaps we would feel the same way here so perhaps staying in Sarlat is the better way to go for us.

As far as caves go - It appears that Lascaux II may have an 11:06 English tour (but they do not have tickets posted yet for dates past March). I contacted Font de Gaume and they can give us reservations at 4:00 (need to arrive at 3:30). RS says it's a 45 minute tour. The last Brive train I see leaves at 7:06 at night, putting us into Paris at 11:18. Is that departure time even realistic considering if we leave the cave around 5pm, we'd then have an estimated 1hr 20m drive to Brive, and then need time to drop our rental car and get on our train? Sounds like we need to decide between seeing Font de Gaume and getting back to Paris the evening of Day 5.

You may feel differently but unless you are really interested in prehistoric art, I'd opt for just one site. My strong preference would be for Font de Gaume because you there you seeing the real thing (and numbers are very strictly limited to protect the site). You know that on the very spot where you are standing the artist crouched or stretched to draw by flickering torchlight, which the guide will mimic. Whereas at Lascaux II you are seeing a replica, however good.

On where you stay, we have found that for us, we like towns / villages with enough going on in the evening to have a choice of restaurants and cafes, which is definitely the case in Sarlat. And driving in the pitch dark is ok once in a while, but not every night.

Terri at La Lanterne is wonderful. She serves a very tasty breakfast, but we preferred to eat at a cafe in the main square. She was totally ok with that, but each morning I would go out for a run, while my family slept in, and she would serve me a cup of coffee after I returned from my run. We had nice chats, too, before anyone else was around. She also has a little courtyard (you can see it in the pictures), but again, we mostly went to the cafes down the street in the Place, so we could people-watch. The free parking is not right there, but it's only about a 5-minute walk away, and there was always parking available.

On Font du Gaume, I would say that it's very much worth your time, but you'll have to assess your timing. When we drove to Brive, I was always pretty confident that I wouldn't have delays on the road, because it was always early morning on a weekend.

On fitting in other castles. Personally, I'm not into the canoe rental trip. It is very scenic, but slow going. And I can canoe at home; I can't see a bunch of castles at home!

Terri can give you great restaurant recommendations - we had some places already chosen, but we loved those that she suggested as well.

Julie, before you decide on train tickets, check out the car reservations to Brive. In a few weeks, we are taking the train from Paris to Brive before embarking on a tour through Lot and then spending a week in Provence. We had a lot of difficulty booking a car at the train station and had to settle for stopping in Limoges to get a car. On a Monday in February, the car rentals either close early or just flat out said, no to our car request. Just saying.............