Can you wear shorts and still visit churches in Paris?

Probably, just depends on how disrespectful you want to be. The common courtesy, respect, is to cover shoulder, midrib, and knees - male and female. Remember most churches are active centers for worship and not museums.Sure you can sneak into churches that don't have a monitor at the door, but should you. Wear you shorts in museums and bars.

I disagree somewhat with Frank. I typically wear shorts, very near or a bit over the knees, a button up shirt (un-tucked) or a polo style, with dark socks and black sneakers. Never a dirty look, never felt out of place. We are very quiet and unobtrusive in churches, I think they recognize tourists and I think the right shorts are okay as long as other courtesies are observed.

There is no blanket rule that Catholic churches require knees and shoulders covered. In Seattle, people attend mass in all manner of dress. God made my knees; he did not make fashion. Notre-Dame de Paris requests guests to "show a respectful attitude, through both their behaviour and their clothing," but does not prohibit shorts. Your next likely stop in Paris, La Sainte-Chapelle really is more museum than church. Both buildings are owned by the French government.

I think everybody has their own feelings about this. I tend to agree with Frank. If the church/synagogue/temple/mosque is still an active place of worship for it's devotees then it should be just good manners to dress respectfully when going in. For me that would be no shorts, no tank tops, no flip-flops, etc.. If it's no longer used for worship then whatever you wear is pretty much up to you. It's purely a personal choice. Obviously this is just a personal opinion.

In answer to your actual question I doubt he will be turned away from any church in France. In my experience, churches in Italy or Spain are more likely to enforce dress codes than those in France.

I strongly agree with Frank – the fact that you can get away with something doesn't mean doing so is appropriate – in Europe, the US, or anywhere else. No one would probably throw you out of a family wedding if you wore cut-offs, but would you go that way? Probably not, out of respect for the bride and groom. God and worshipers deserve the same respect.

And just to clarify the comment above, the S Chapelle is no longer a church – it has been deconsecrated.

Just wanna say that I LOVE LAURA and her replies. Laura, while this is surely an unreasonable desire, I wish you would respond to EVERY question or comment! YOU, Laura, rock!

Long, at-knee cargo shorts? Dressed neatly, I don't see anything wrong if you're popping in as part of your sightseeing. And, yes, I'm Catholic, and yes, live in a climate where preppy shorts, skirts, sundresses are de rigeur church wear in the summer because it's stinking 90 degrees in the shade half the summer. I have seen the signs in Italy with a person in tank top and shorts or short skirt with a line across indicating "no" but don't recall those in France. I think there are ways to dress cool yet neat to keep things respectful.

"Comfort has its place, but it seems rude to visit another country dressed as if you've come to mow its lawns." - David Sederis

That hilarious quote is always on my mind as I choose what to wear while abroad. I'm catholic and I wear shorts to mass at home. When in Europe I put more of an emphasis on the above concept than avoiding shorts. In my opinion, pants would be preferred, but nice shorts with a nice shirt trumps jeans with a Boston Red Sox jersey shirt. Just my opinion.

Amen to Frank, Ben and David Sederis.

".Will he be turned away"
No, he won't. Church property was confiscated during the Revolution and belongs to the government. There may be handlers at Notre Dame to control the tourists. but it's a different situation than Italy.
Edit: let me add that Kim is absolutely correct that these are working churches where we hope our dress shows respect for the culture of others even if there is no one at the door monitoring.

That said, he may be able to tolerate golf pants. My husband bought some--no plaids, all solid dark colors--and claims they are very light and airy.

He will have some jeans and cargo pants with him. In October we will mostly be in Normandie, Alsace and the Loire so he can wear his shorts (they are called city shorts because they go mid-calf and way past the knee) and I am assuming once we get to Paris, he will probably switch to his pants as we tour around except for the Louvre were I assume he will wear his city shorts again.

He will not have a Ballcap and he wears polos for shirts so it looks like we will be ok.

We were just in Paris last week, you guys will be fine! It was hot, hot, hot and I saw more than my fair share of shorts in the churches.
Like the others have suggested, dress neat and clean, be respectful of your surroundings. Honestly, the amount of talking and noise from the visitors in the churches drove me crazy. I think that is more disrespectful than wearing shorts.

I think eakthomas reply sums up " direpectful" best, its not your clothes, its the noise us tourists make in places like Notre Dame! I have gone through when people are praying and tourists are yelling back and forth etc, horribly rude.

And the answer is " no, you will not be turned away". In Italy the answer would be different, but France is a secular country and there are no prohibitions on what a person wears into a church, except the hopeful expectation that one does not look like they are scraping there boat hull or a " working girl" outfit! But, just so you know, I have seen both in churches in Paris!

It's interesting that when a few hear "shorts" their mind makes a leap to flip flops, tank tops, cut offs and ball caps-you can find me in Notre Dame in shorts, but none of that other stuff. There's even a reference to 'god and worshipers' deserving the same respect on your visit as a family wedding, though some (most?) of us do not go into old churches for a religious or spiritual boost, we go there because we like to see great old buildings with wonderful architecture and history, stained glass, crypts, etc. This is feeling a little judgmental ;-)

Italy is definitely more strict, and that's fine. I was relieved to be wearing slacks-we'd just been out to a nice restaurant-in Florence when we happened upon the San Gaetano church as we walked back to our B & B.

The answer to your title question, photobearsam, is yes, absolutely. They will happily accept a donation or a climb the tower entrance fee from someone wearing shorts. Be sure to see the Eglise Saint-Gervais!

I think the point is not that WE might go into churches to admire the architecture and art, but rather that there are worshipers there for whom a) the church is their home church or b) who are making a type of pilgrimage to the church who are there to worship. It can be disrespectful to them, albeit they may be fewer in number than the tourist hordes.

And yes l'Etat does own the building, but Notre Dame is a living, breathing Catholic church, and not just a tourist stop. We can be good guests while respecting those who are gathered there for more spiritual reasons.

Kim in Paris: thank you, thank you for the reminder that in all these places, the churches, the cathedrals, the abbeys, the chapels, some people are there to quietly worship their god. I'm a culturally Christian non-believer but I try to respect the ambience of the believers.

photo,

The easiest solution might be for your other half to use zip-off shorts, which are available from a number of clothing firms including Tilley as I recall. When visiting the larger Churches, attach the legs as a measure of respect to the people worshiping there. When the visit is finished, zip the legs off and continue. It's likely to be cooler inside anyway so having the legs attached shouldn't be a big deal for the short time you'll be inside.

Of course, in Italy there would likely be no question about wearing shorts in Churches.

Beyond respect and propriety, your warm blooded husband should be prepared for some wet, cold and windy weather in October, especially if you are going to the Normandy beaches. That's certainly what we experienced when we were there in October a few years back. It's also what we experienced when we were in northern France during the first 2 weeks of June 3 years ago. People were at Le Mans in puffer jackets!

You can Google terms like ... weather city october ... and get lots of "average" weather resources.

This North America -- Western Europe Equivalent Latitude Maps is a fun link that shows European cities overlaid on the US and Canada and US and Canadian cities overlaid on Europe, Eurasia and Africa. Of course, latitude is not necessarily a predictor of weather, but it is fun to see that Paris falls on the US and Canadian border.

My husband is also quite warm blooded. In fact, his dad saw him on TV many years ago as an example of what not to wear when running in winter in Seattle because he had on too few clothes. Having lived in southern AZ for over 10 years now, he has realized that fewer clothes don't always equal a cooler body. But I still have to coerce him into taking a rain jacket and layers, including some warm and long-sleeved ones, in case the weather in Europe takes a turn toward the cold side.

Nothing judgmental about recognizing and respecting the purpose for which the churches and the art were created -- prayer and worship of God.

Based on the description of said shorts, it sounds like they're more of a male version of a Capri pant.

Ben, you have a point. Has nothing to do with church, but yes, the whole rumpled, just crawled out of college dorm bed look does seem more prevalent than in years past. What saddens me is when I see a couple out on what appears to be a date, and the girl is dressed smartly, has on cute shoes, took the effort, and the guy looks like slobville with his pants hanging down his rear or whatever.

Ben, please accept my apology for misappropriating your term ball cap. It was just part of my feeble attempt to list some of the clothing items that you will not find me wearing in Notre Dame or any other "French église, cathédrale, or basilique". Sometimes we get a little carried away, eh?

Dave

Ventura, CA, USA

Lo makes an excellent point -- October can be nice and warm, or it can be rainy and dreary. If the latter, shorts will be no fun to wear anyway! (Although photobearsam does point out her husband wears them until the snow arrives, so I guess for him the prior statement doesn't apply.)

And Lo, those maps are super cool!! Turns out where I'm from in Oklahoma, we're in the Cyclades, it looks like . . . : )

I just spent a month renting an apartment in July in Paris. The first two weeks were wicked hot (near 100F on some days) and I wore shorts all the time-which is what I wear back home in the summer. I visited churches in Paris and Normandy and saw lots of men (and women, I might add) wearing shorts visiting the sites. I can't believe they were all just Americans. At Notre Dame in Paris, it is required that men remove their covers ( baseball & otherwise) upon entering the church. I did this also at other churches I visited because that is respectful. By the way, baseball caps are not "silly" (no more than French men wearing berets is "silly"); there is a reason professional ball players wear these and if you had to stand in line for two hours in the hot sun to walk up the stairs at Notre Dame, if you are a guy, you would wear something to prevent sunburn on your scalp. Finally, speaking of respect, at the American Cemetery at Omaha Beach, when taps sound and the flags are being lowered, it is respectful for all men to remove their covers; some do & some don't. You can tell who the American men are because they do this (that's how we were brought up and a lot of us are vets & know this) & it might be nice if Frenchmen and others learn this sign of respect.

From today's Big Apple Post:

http://tinyurl.com/q55d5et

I think as Norma does , also being an atheist ( of Sephardic Jewish ethnicity ) , that one should be appropriately respectful , and act accordingly . Michael , that really struck a nerve , James E. will love it as well , I'm sure .

You know I actually received PM's directing me here. What do you think set me off more? The fact that people were dressed they way they were or the author's final analysis? "After all, if you dress better, you’ll feel better." Why is it all we care about is ourselves? Its because all they care about is themselves that they show up in shorts in the first place. Wonderful society we are creating where how one feels is more important that the result of one's actions on others.......

That Post article is directed at the sloppy middle class, but I'd like to remark on the "casual chic" of the upper class, which has been going on for decades. When I have to wait months for my first reservation at Spago, dress up for a special night out, isn't it the same thing for the Beverly Hills regulars (who are ordering off the menu, of course) to be dressed in their jeans and t-shirts.

That was years ago but it was the same at a Michelin 2-star in Bruges last summer. What's the difference between designer jeans and regular jeans at an event?

Just back, and the only church that had standards that seemed to be enforced about covered knees and shoulders was at Senanque Abbey, which had up lots of signs (with pictures) about what is and is not acceptable.

Excellent to know that there is no enforcement or arbitrary bourgeois values whose only purpose was to segregate the classes and enforce discrimination.

James, I am baffled. Is your reply directed at me? I simply sought to answer Photobearsam's question. I made no judgements about what is appropriate attire -- in fact, as I am a devout Christian, I prefer modest dress, especially in church. Forgive me if I misunderstood your remarks.

No, not directed at you. Reporting in on current situations is one of the great advantage of the forum. More should do as you have done: SERIOUSLY. I am sure many out there share my opinion but I have no problems with people that don't. Its all good. SherrieF my sincere, real apologies if you took my comments as offense.

I've only seen a dress code enforced in Spain and Italy so far. It's important to note that the dress code is about modesty (covered knees, midriff and shoulders) not about dressing nice. Sandals or flip flops are fine as is a basic t-shirt.