Hi everyone,
I would like to visit the Alsace region to see Colmar and possible Strasbourg, but since we'll be staying in Paris, 5 hours round trip on a train doesn't sound enticing. :)
Are there any villages or areas closer (via rail) than that? Or are those our best options despite the 2.5 hour train ride each way?
TIA
What exactly are you envisioning? Half timbered building & cobblestone streets? Or vineyards? Or just cute little villages as a change of scenery from the city?
Colmar & Strasbourg are unique, but there are certainly places that are nice day trips from Paris. Even areas IN Paris that are very charming. How long will you be there?
I normally limit day trips to 1-1/2 hrs each way, but in this case I might go ahead and do it as long as you're not expecting to explore those cities in depth. It would also depend on what time of year.
If you're going in December and want to see the Christmas markets it might be worth a really long day. If you're willing to leave Paris early (say by 8:00 am) and return late evening (say around 8-9 pm) you could do a loop. Take the train to Strasbourg and arrive by 10:00 am, see the Cathedral, visit the Christmas market and have lunch, then take an early afternoon train to Colmar (about 30min by train), spend the rest of the afternoon in Colmar, walk around the town, see Little Venice, visit the Unterlinden museum for an hour or so and then maybe have an early dinner at the Christmas market, then train back to Paris - leave Colmar around 6:00 pm.
If going in late Spring through early Fall, you could substitute a canal boat ride and more wandering around the city centers for the Christmas markets.
Like I said, a long exhausting day, but might be worth it to you, depending on what you're expecting to see and do.
What exactly are you envisioning? Half timbered building & cobblestone streets? Or vineyards? Or just cute little villages as a change of scenery from the city?
More the half timbered buildings and cobblestone streets. The photos just look gorgeous and very unique.
We have about 4-5 full days in Paris to see the big sights and Giverny, but could devote a day or two to this region, but we don’t drink, so if that’s a big focus there, maybe a day trip is enough.
We’ll be there in June.
Rouen is a bit like Strasbourg -- half timbered buildings etc. There are lots of charming small towns like Moret sur Loing, Senlis, Crecy la Chapelle to mention a few. They aren't like Colmar (no storks on roofs or those mosaic style roofts, but charming) Snapshots of these last three here: https://janettravels.wordpress.com/category/day-trips-from-paris/
“We have about 4-5 full days in Paris to see the big sights and Giverny, but could devote a day or two to this region,”
With only 4-5 days, I wouldn’t do a day trip to Alsace. You will find plenty to fill your time in Paris. I would visit some of the older sections of Paris and enjoy their own charm and cobblestones. If you’re going to Versailles, be sure to visit the Hamlet for half-timbered buildings. But save Strasbourg and Colmar for another trip.
With only 4-5 days, I wouldn’t do a day trip to Alsace. You will find plenty to fill your time in Paris. I would visit some of the older sections of Paris and enjoy their own charm and cobblestones. If you’re going to Versailles, be sure to visit the Hamlet for half-timbered buildings. But save Strasbourg and Colmar for another trip.
We weren't planning on going to Versailles b/c the family wasn't sold on a fancy house. :)
But if there are other similar towns closer without 5 hours on a train, I'm all for it!
Rouen is a bit like Strasbourg -- half timbered buildings etc. There are lots of charming small towns like Moret sur Loing, Senlis, Crecy la Chapelle to mention a few.
And these are all easy enough for newbies to get to via rail from Paris?
Hi, look at Le Mans as an option on this train website. There are trains that just take an hour to get there from Paris’ Montparnasse train station. (Look at Le Mans plantagenent images on Google to see if this is what you would like.). When you arrive at the Le Mans train station, take the 5-10 minute tram at the station that stops near the cathedral. The plantagenent medieval area has lots of half-timbered homes. Also check out the Roman walls down the sets of stairs with the interesting brick designs.
We weren't planning on going to Versailles b/c the family wasn't sold on a fancy house.
I plan to visit Versailles again next year. Not for the palace but for the splendid gardens and sculptures; it's especially enchanting on a musical garden day.
It is true both that Troyes is attractive and that Troyes is no Strasbourg. But it is 15 minutes closer.
Troyes from Gare de l'Est in Paris takes 1:30; Strasbourg from the same Paris station takes 1:46. It is the Colmar and Route des Vins that adds time.
Strasbourg is further, but the trains are so fast, and frequent, that it is about the same time and actually more convenient.
All the small towns I mentioned are easily reached by train from Paris, some of them with the Navigo Decouverte and Rouen is maybe 90 minutes or so.
But 4 or 5 days hardly scratches the surface of Paris which itself contains many village like sections and communities.
Le Mans and Rouen were my first thoughts. Rouen is good if you are interested in Monet (and you seem to be, since you plan to go to Giverny!), because it lets you visit the beautiful cathedral that he painted. But Le Mans is a hair faster to get to, and the old town is arguably better preserved than in Rouen! Just, don't go to Le Mans at the same time as the 24 hours (10-11 June 2023), as the city is crowded then!
I'm thinking you would love Chartres. It's a day trip from Paris and a very charming small city with a great cathedral.
I always think time of year is a big factor. When are you going?
Rouen, in Normandy, isn't the first thing I'd think of but it does have a large old center and is reachable by direct train. Reims is the other direction. It's also reachable by train, has a large cathedral, and is in the Champagne region. Neither would be my first choice but take a look at both.
I agree with the above. Chartres old town has some great half-timbered houses. If you want to travel farther, Rouen, Le Mans, or Tours has some great old half-timbered masterpieces as well.
This would shorten your time in Paris - many of us would advise against that because it’s a wonderful city to explore. But, just letting you know that since you’re going in June, there’s some beautiful light/music shows at night illuminated on cathedrals, such as the one at Chartres. If you wanted to do an overnight, you could enjoy Chartres (gorgeous stained glass inside), see the light show, take the hour train over to Le Mans the next morning for a few hours and head to Paris.
I did a day in Strasbourg on my last trip to Paris and found it very worthwhile. The train ride was under 2 hours each way.
I always think time of year is a big factor. When are you going?
Early June 2023
Looks like we may actually have 6-7 days in France, so I'd like to visit Colmar or one of the other towns you mentioned as a day trip.
Would also like to see some of the chateaus in the Loire Valley if time allows.
We know we won't be able to see everything, but we're okay missing some things...since you'll always have to miss some things. :)
Here's what's complicating things:
We'll be coming from Venice, so getting to any of these smaller towns without going to Paris first, is proving to be messy.
And I would like to throw Metz (for newbies, pronounced "Mess") into the mix. An hour & half via TGV train from Paris and a bit off the usual tourist track but I found it a charming city with lots to see. Quiche Lorraine anyone?
The villages in the Loire Valley don't have a lot of half-timbered buildings, but are quick and easy to get to from Paris.
I often use the Open Railway Map when planning trips. Toggle "Max Speed" and "Mapnik" to easily see which lines go fast. You'll see that Paris to Strasbourg is a bullet train that can do station to station in 1h46m. That quick! And Strasbourg is beautiful and well worth a visit. Colmar is too. If you can sort out two nights in Colmar, you can do a stopover visit to Strasbourg as well. Speedy travel but fun and worth it.
This would shorten your time in Paris - many of us would advise against that because it’s a wonderful city to explore. But, just letting you know that since you’re going in June, there’s some beautiful light/music shows at night illuminated on cathedrals, such as the one at Chartres. If you wanted to do an overnight, you could enjoy Chartres (gorgeous stained glass inside), see the light show, take the hour train over to Le Mans the next morning for a few hours and head to Paris.
If we opted not to do an overnight, but still wanted to see the lights; are there trains (and are they safe at night) running back after dark that would allow us to do a day trip?
How are you planning on traveling from Venice? Air, train? There are airports you could fly into and then transfer by train to Colmar - Strasbourg or Basel would both work. If you only want to train, there are trains from Venice to Colmar with changes in Milan and Zurich that don't go through Paris - a long train ride but I might be inclined as I avoid flying whenever possible.
davey1108, I wonder if you'd care to post your current tentative itinerary? I think some of your past posts have been deleted, or at least "Rick Can't Find This Page."
Of course, it's your vacation, to plan as you wish. You don't seem to have described your scheme very much, but I get vibrations that this is your family's first trip to Europe. It's not likely to be your last, either. Since Paris is one of the great cities of the world, I wonder if you are being a little too ... capricious ... in tacking on outings. Our first trip to Paris, and our first trip to Europe after getting married in 1980, was 7 nights. After many additional stops there, we certainly have not exhausted the resources of this city. (In fairness, I should admit that we daytripped to Versailles one day, and to Giverny (train) another. But those are trivially short trips, with two meals still in Paris each day, and some walking around Paris. Both those trips were high on our list, and we were glad we went.)
It would also be useful to know if you, so far, have any other stops in France. You have posted about MSM (Mont St. Michel), and I also wonder if you may be planning to visit the Normandy beaches as well? In this case, I partly ask because it's entirely the opposite direction from Colmar and Alsace. It's just not a good idea to try and visit "all of France" in one week. Have you read any of Rick's general guidelines for trips to Europe? His books are in most public libraries, if you don't want to buy.
I'm not sure it's a fair comparison, but would a French family reject a visit to our The White House because it's just a "big house?" Besides being beautiful, and having vast acres of gardens and pavilions in the gardens, Versailles has been the site of a lot of world history and art and music. I only bring this up in the hope that you won't accidentally miss out on the real purpose of travel, discovery. I don't mean to deny your right to set your itinerary.
Strasbourg and Colmar are very nice, but there are conceptually similar (if perhaps from a different century) towns all over Europe. If your next trip to Europe isn't France, you'll probably have equally good options. I mean, there's a tourism circuit in Germany, with dozens of towns, called "The Half-Timbered Road". In fairness, many of these towns have some more modern houses mixed in, but some of them are quite "pure". This is not your "only chance."
How are you planning on traveling from Venice? Air, train? There are airports you could fly into and then transfer by train to Colmar - Strasbourg or Basel would both work. If you only want to train, there are trains from Venice to Colmar with changes in Milan and Zurich that don't go through Paris - a long train ride but I might be inclined as I avoid flying whenever possible.
We're not opposed to flying, it's just that there are no nonstop flights from Venice to Basel, so we'd be left with Venice to Zurich. It's a nonstop, but then we'd still have a 2:30 train ride to Colmar.
We might just opt to come out from Paris and do one night in Colmar to explore.
davey1108, I wonder if you'd care to post your current tentative itinerary? I think some of your past posts have been deleted, or at least "Rick Can't Find This Page."
Of course, it's your vacation, to plan as you wish. You don't seem to have described your scheme very much, but I get vibrations that this is your family's first trip to Europe. It's not likely to be your last, either. Since Paris is one of the great cities of the world, I wonder if you are being a little too ... capricious ... in tacking on outings. Our first trip to Paris, and our first trip to Europe after getting married in 1980, was 7 nights. After many additional stops there, we certainly have not exhausted the resources of this city.
It would also be useful to know if you, so far, have any other stops in France. You have posted about MSM (Mont St. Michel), and I also wonder if you may be planning to visit the Normandy beaches as well? In this case, I partly ask because it's entirely the opposite direction from Colmar and Alsace. It's just not a good idea to try and visit "all of France" in one week. Have you read any of Rick's general guidelines for trips to Europe? His books are in most public libraries, if you don't want to buy.
I'm not sure it's a fair comparison, but would a French family reject a visit to our The White House because it's just a "big house?" Besides being beautiful, and having vast acres of gardens and pavilions in the gardens, Versailles has been the site of a lot of world history and art and music. I only bring this up in the hope that you won't accidentally miss out on the real purpose of travel, discovery. I don't mean to deny your right to set your itinerary.
Strasbourg and Colmar are very nice, but there are conceptually similar (if perhaps from a different century) towns all over Europe. If your next trip to Europe isn't France, you'll probably have equally good options. I mean, there's a tourism circuit in Germany, with dozens of towns, called "The Half-Timbered Road". In fairness, many of these towns have some more modern houses mixed in, but some of them are quite "pure". This is not your "only chance."
I appreciate this. Here's some context:
My health is declining for various reasons AND we'll soon have our first child in college. As a result, it's highly likely this WILL be our only European trip with our kids while I'm still of "normal" health. So, yes, we're trying to pack a bunch in. I know it's not ideal, but due to recent diagnoses, we also don't have much of a choice.
Regarding Versailles: That's a fair point, we'll consider it (it hasn't been completely axed).
In term of itinerary, we've cut MSM and Normandy, so we have 6-7 days to see:
Highlights of Paris
Louvre
Giverny
Maybe some of the Loire Valley chateaus
Colmar/Strasbourg (or something similar)
River Seine Sunset Cruise
Davey not to muddy the water too much, but to many people Paris is almost like a drug. They love it and can't get enough of it. personally I feel Paris' strong force when I go there, to an extent understand it and certainly enjoy it. But honestly I'm ready to leave after a couple/few days. It's an amazing city, but it's still a big city, and I'm just not that into it.
And there are still other who dislike Paris and actively work to stay away from it. The Frenchman who married my neighbor's nanny for instance live in Paris because of work, yet he thoroughly hates Paris, can't wait to get away from it.
You are going to hear a lot of "Paris is a drug" people tell you that a week in France's most intoxicating locale is barely sufficient to even get started there. That's true for them, and I can sympathize with their perspectives. But certainly not true for me, and maybe not true for you. We are all different, so know yourself. If you're the type who'd thrive off a full week in NYC you'd probably feel the same about Paris.
The train to Strasbourg from Paris is safe at any time of day, as is the train from Strasbourg to Colmar. The Paris train station you'd like depart from is also safe, although it is a big city train station with the usual cast of scumbags looking to grab a purse or con you out of your wallet. But you'll keep you head up and be fine.
I'll also push back on the notion that Alsace isn't unique. I most certainly is, both in architecture and culture. If you want to see it, it's well worth your time. Last summer I went back for the fourth time in my last six trips, albeit a couple of those were stops of convenience passing through as opposed to a select destination.
You say 2.5 hours on the train from Zurich like it's a tough assignment. The train though is so easy and generally relaxing and pleasant. Look out the window and see new and interesting landscapes, catch up culling your photos, eat a yummy sandwich or pastry from the train station. In the US I do tend to think of transit hour as mild forms of torture, but in Europe I actually look forward sitting on the train, exhaling fully, and taking it easy for a bit.
So if it was me, and of course I'm not you, I'd fly to Zurich, train to Colmar, and post up in a nice AirBnB for 3 night. Day trip to Strasbourg and visit on of the pretty villages too. Then 4 or maybe 5 nights in Paris.
I do think that Paris at the end of a trip is nice. It's the major leagues of Euro travel and I like to do it when I need my energy lifted and when I know I'm out soon so willing to go all in.
From time to time I have the idea too that some are addicted to Paris and pushing others to do the same and so miss all the wonderful things you can discover outside the place.
My wife and I certainly started out with the Great Cities of Europe, partly because they are easier to visit by train, and that kind of trip is more affordable for the young people we were at the time. I'm not going to defend big cities, although I might point out that there is a certain advantage (time and money) in a city's "collection" of "beautiful places" in "captivity". I don't mean that a visit to Colmar can be replaced with the contents of a museum; I just mean that the OP might have really enjoyed the Cluny Museum, the Louvre Decorative Arts Museum, or even Invalides. (I personally was insufficiently taught in school about the importance of Napoleon in the history of the World.) But he'll be rushing from one booked (if high profile) appointment to another in Paris, for a few days.
I am arguing that a stroll and a seat on a park bench near the Tour St. Jacques, facing the Mairie, then walking around the historic Theatre du Chatelet, having an outdoor dinner nearby, is the kind of slow-paced immersion in another culture that's hard to find. I am also a little worried that the OP may not be doing enough formal research, and may (generational thing ... ) relying too much on "the internet." That's what I meant by "capricious", not a criticism of his interests!
That said, Colmar is an excellent choice, because it is good for more than one day. Some related places, (which are not "near Paris") like Perouges, Vitré, Dinan, Guédelon are not as rich destinations. However, Aix, Avignon are, but not half-timbered. Having spent a week in Alsace with a car, I would mention that other (lovely) Alsace towns can be a little hard to negotiate without a car.
The OP might investigate whether he wants to visit Stein am Rhine or Aarau as a daytrip from Zurich. If they are spending more time in Basel than in Zurich, perhaps Freiburg or someplace in the Black Forest might deliver what's needed. I'm not sure why Switzerland (i.e. a detour) is essential if there is no time in the real mountains. I mean, Zurich and Basel are loaded with culture and history, but they are not "better" than Paris or Venice, and they are not very old-fashioned.
The OP might investigate whether he wants to visit Stein am Rhine or Aarau as a daytrip from Zurich. If they are spending more time in Basel than in Zurich, perhaps Freiburg or someplace in the Black Forest might deliver what's needed. I'm not sure why Switzerland (i.e. a detour) is essential if there is no time in the real mountains. I mean, Zurich and Basel are loaded with culture and history, but they are not "better" than Paris or Venice, and they are not very old-fashioned.
Tim,
First off, your insights weren't interpreted as being critical (at least not by me). On the internet, where nobody knows everything but everybody knows something, I appreciate varied opinions.
In terms of Zurich: it's only being considered as a way to get from Venice to Colmar since it's the only airport with nonstop flights from Venice (vs Basel).
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions regarding getting from Venice to Colmar IF we decide to visit there?
Here's what I'm running into:
- Getting a nonstop flight from Venice to Basel is not possible
- Getting a nonstop flight to Venice to Zurich IS possible, but there's no budget airlines, so it would be over $600 USD for the flight alone, then we'd have to get a train (hopefully schedules cooperate) OR a private transfer
An Hour from Paris by Annabel Simms would be a great book for you. Descriptions of 20 places to visit one hour or less from Paris, easy to get to, and detailed instructions. Senlis, as janet mentioned, is wonderful. We also liked Sceaux very much. St Germain-en-Laye is also very nice and easy to get to on the RER. Giverny is another very nice town, where Monet’s house is, easy to get to by train.
An Hour from Paris by Annabel Simms would be a great book for you. Descriptions of 20 places to visit one hour or less from Paris, easy to get to, and detailed instructions. Senlis, as janet mentioned, is wonderful. We also liked Sceaux very much. St Germain-en-Laye is also very nice and easy to get to on the RER. Giverny is another very nice town, where Monet’s house is, easy to get to by train.
Thank you! Ordered!
Thanks for the gracious note. While I'm not in favor of it, it looks like Lufthansa's commuter subsidiary may fly Venice to Freiburg. (Breisgau)
Edit: I thought of an alternative idea to research and consider: How about if you fly from Venice to Dusseldorf (second-largest airport in Germany, I think), and take a day trip to Monschau (I don't think you can sleep there, and it's too small.) A night or two in Dusseldorf will give you a stone and brick old-town to go with the wood in Monschau, and great bierhaus atmosphere. You can visit Cologne if you like. Then fly on to Paris. We went to Monschau by car, but it's so popular, there must be many busses a day.
OP when are you looking to potentially travel from Venice to Colmar?
Skyscanner is a good tool for finding all or almost all flights in Europe. You can search an entire country at once, so it will show you flight to and from minor airports you might not have considered.
Venice-Basel on July 6th 2023 for instance is 2h40min connecting through Basel for $180 a ticket. Note that you still need to transfer out of Basel to Colmar. Same day Venice-Zurich three times a day on Swiss Air at $121 per ticket. Less than an hour. Then 2.5 hour train, one change, 30 Euro.
Nothing at all wrong with close to Paris of course. If you want to go to Colmar you'll need to travel a little more on your vacation. To me easily worth it, but if you really don't like travel then probably not.
“If we opted not to do an overnight, but still wanted to see the lights (@ Chartres); are there trains (and are they safe at night) running back after dark that would allow us to do a day trip?“
Hi, just getting back to your post. If my memory serves me correctly, the light shows started around 10pm. At Chartres, the main light illumination show was on the front of the cathedral, but there were also several locations to see projections on buildings in the old center. So the earliest that you would probably catch a train back to Paris would be 11pm.
I was traveling solo, plus I enjoy experiencing several towns’ ambiance in the evening, so I never took an evening train. I can’t competently speak to your safety question.
OP when are you looking to potentially travel from Venice to Colmar?
June 7th or 8th
In the Switzerland forum, you mention wanting to spend a week in Murren, Luzern, etc. Is this in addition to Paris/Strasbourg, etc?
If coming from Venice, Switzerland makes some sense, but then are you on to Paris, or did you decide against Switzerland? Just trying to get a handle on what you are trying to achieve to better be able to advise you. Are you flying home from Paris? Where are you flying in to?
If you feel the need to leave Paris for a day (I wouldn't, I'd stick in Paris), then I second the suggest to see Metz, it's not Alsace but Lorraine, worth you time. You'll see French and European tourists/visitors there, especially in the main square area.
You could also take the RER from Metz to a smaller town close by , Thionville, which used be called Diedenhofen, should you tire of Metz. I like Metz, very important historically, has a good history museum.
I'm not a big nightlife guy, in any sense of the word. We once made a special effort to be in Paris (maybe our 10th time there) on Quatorze Juillet. That was just fine, but they light up the Eiffel Tower (without fireworks) pretty often. And we paid a fortune for a room with a balcony so we could avoid the Champ de Mars crowd.
But as a big daytripper (once went to Lille from Antwerp for the art museum, 3 hours each way), it's a misunderstanding of the purpose of daytrips to move heaven and earth to see a few video projections on a cathedral! Maybe hundreds of real candles on the facade of a Loire chateau, but all the same ... . For a limited total days, last good-health trip, you need high-value targets. Sorry to sound cynical, but even the interactive Van Gogh video is a better use of your time.
If you're not going to sleep, the main danger on a pre-midnight train is drunken bachelorettes with sashes, walking the length of the train singing. You hope they're near a bathroom if the booze gets to them. Do you use public transportation at home? You meet ... the public. But in Europe, not only poor people use the train.
In the Switzerland forum, you mention wanting to spend a week in Murren, Luzern, etc. Is this in addition to Paris/Strasbourg, etc?
If coming from Venice, Switzerland makes some sense, but then are you on to Paris, or did you decide against Switzerland? Just trying to get a handle on what you are trying to achieve to better be able to advise you. Are you flying home from Paris? Where are you flying in to?
We're no longer visiting any locations in Switzerland (unless we have to connect in Zurich).
"...pre-midnight train drunken bachelorettes....." I must have definitely missed something. I never saw any such characters on any of the numerous night trains I've taken, especially those since the 21 century, when every single trip included one or two night train rides.
The closest thing similar was a German girl's school group from Munich to Paris, which I got stuck in the same compartment. That was in the summer, still didn't prevent me from sleeping, a mere one time occurrence on taking night trains, ie, a fluke....not to reoccur.
Oh good davey, you’ll enjoy reading that book and it will be super helpful. Senlis is the best day trip of them all imo.
Fred, actually that bachelorette story happened to us twice. And it happens many nights on the street, say, in Antwerp. But it was in Belgium, where the train line between Brugge and Brussels is a sort of subway-train of daily life. In fairness, the train between Rouen and Paris is not a major student and commuter line.
Considering how much safer Europe is than the United States, it always puzzles me that Americans are so worried about street crime. It's key that the OP was asking about non-"overnight" travel, where there have been (even, here) intermittent reports of sleeper's pockets being rifled. But even before the decline of overnight trains, I've never sought to save a night's hotel cost, to sleep on a train.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g60763-i5-k14139393-Safety-New_York_City_New_York.html
I want to add that I was trying to point out that projections on a building are a sort of "derivative" attraction. I remember when Leonard Bernstein set up an easel with a reproduction of a Monet "Rouen Cathedral" as part of his Young People's Concerts discussion of Impressionism. But as a stagehand, I've set up a lot of TV projectors, and I've paid to see several (indoor) video projects, like Van Gogh, and the Cunard building rotunda. I just think it's not the right basis for a daytrip, especially one with an exhausting late-return. Unfortunately, I've never been to Chartres or Rouen.
Looking past murder rates of course, for which the statistics show it's the other way 'round.
Actually, I think you have to look past all violent crime, not just murder - ie: muggings, armed robbery, car-jacking, rape, etc., Where Europe supersedes us is mostly in petty crime and non-violent theft.
@ Tim.....I don't share the view that night trains are on the decline as many new routes have been added in the last couple of years, certainly not based on what I've seen in central and east-central Europe. Postings to that effect one has seen on this forum.
Numerous people take night trains, but what I've seen is that for sure they aren't Americans, (this is summer travel) , almost exclusively Europeans, ie, Germans, Italians, etc., a few Asians too. You listen to the languages spoken on the train platform, look at the numbers of people standing there waiting for night train to pull in, or as the passengers are on board trying to find their compartment. What you do not hear are anglophones.
Never had any concerns at all pertaining to my personal safety on a night train (DB or OeBB) sitting solo in a six seat compartment or in the general seating area amongst strangers. I am as much a stranger to them as well. Yes, taking the night train option is to save a hotel night plus stretching out another travel day.
Update:
Sounds like our current (but still tentative) plan:
Day A: Venice to Lugano on train
Stay overnight in Lugano
Day B: do some brief sightseeing in morning
Lugano to Colmar on train in evening
Fred, we too miss the night trains. We have taken several and always enjoyed them. Davey, the Swiss Air flights look good and a decent price. Fly to Zurich and catch the train to Colmar/Strasbourg. It's an easy trip. We have done it a couple of times. It goes by fast. Once in Strasbourg, you will love it. Then take the high speed to Paris when you are ready - less than 2 hrs and you are there. We have done that train many times. Colmar is charming, but we felt eh ...a day there was enough. Strasbourg is bigger, offers more restaurants, and things to do. Train station is an easy walk to most areas. There are a couple of rental car places by the train station if you want to day trip to Riquewihr or Ribeauville, or some of the smaller villages around the Colmar area. Don't get us wrong - Colmar is charming, but if with kids, Strasbourg offers more. The Petite France District reminds us of a Harry Potter movie. Very charming. We also took a 1/2 day trip over to Gengenbach, Germany from Strasbourg. It was a charming village, easy to get to by train. Probably 30 minutes tops. Another 30 min. and you can train to Baden Baden. The possibilities are endless. We are included in those who feel the drug of Paris. Love it. Go at least twice a year. That being said, you can do a lot for your first trip in 3-4 days. Hit the big sights, you can cover a lot of ground. Depends on how much you want to do and see.
