Trip planning - book flights or accommodations first? Also, family friendly London budget hotels?

First, I would work out an itinerary to know how many full days you need on the ground. Then track flights for a number of months to see what the best alternatives are. Consider open-jaw itineraries so you don't need to backtrack. Once the price is to your liking, then book your flights since they are expensive to adjust afterward and less flexible.

Accommodations are much easier to change (and how would you know the dates until you have the flights nailed down anyway?). Check if there's anything major going on that can affect lodging prices before you settle on the exact flight dates. I'm sure others will chime in regarding lodging recommendations (I don't travel with family/kids, so I can't help there).

I would actually do the opposite and book lodging first. Then about 4 to 5 months in, start studying the airplane rates and then get your tickets when the flights are low. I fly Delta and noticed that they would release cheaper seats either Tuesday or Wednesday morning at 4am EST. The flights will always be there but you will have issues getting the lodging that you want.

You said backpackers, you did say you can cope with being on top of each other, why not a family room at YHA

http://www.yha.org.uk/places-to-stay/london

St Pancras would be ideal for Eurostar to Paris (you could try for double + 4bed or a 5 bed). St Pauls is also useful

Here are two you can look into.

Lancaster Hall Hotel, part of the London German YMCA.
Ridgemount Hotel, Gower Street, in Bloomsbury near Br. Museum.

My usual planning method is to first decide what days I can travel. Then I start plugging in dates for airfares. Unfortunately, airfares now change so frequently that there's no good way to figure out when the best fares will be. Even using the flexible dates, fares can still change from day to day.

The good thing about London is that it is so huge with so many hotels that there are almost no events that will push hotel pricing way up. There are no conventions, sporting events, or music festivals that will sell out the city or push rates to the stratosphere. The main London advice is that Sundays seem to often be much less expensive than any other days, so trying to include a Sunday night or two is a way to help stretch the budget.

I've been a teenage boy and 5 in a hotel room during the stress of international travel sounds like pure Hell. I'd consider the apartment option or else two rooms. A packed hotel room isn't pleasant over a weekend for a domestic trip, for weeks during international travel, it could cause endless bickering and add to the stress.

I too would go for the flights first. You can always find accommodations.

You're fortunate to have a non-stop flight into.London. And you can choose a 1 stop (Montreal) flight from Paris. I p!ugged in a date 6/4 to 6/18 and got a $954 CAD airfare on Air Canada--not bad.
It has been awhile since we stayed in Central London, but we prefer the Kensington or Bayswater neighborhoods. We usually use Booking.com or AirBNB.com for rooms.

I always book flights first. It's not uncommon for a great deal to pop up that involves departing on a day different from what you previously contemplated. This year I saved about $200 by grabbing a sale fare for April 30; I'd been planning to leave on May 1.

If you're willing to deal with potentially needing to change or cancel hotel reservations, there's no reason you can't make speculative reservations while you're waiting to nail down your flights. Just be sure you can cancel without penalty if you need to. I don't do that because: it's extra work; I don't need charming, just functional; and for a solo traveler the financial risk of waiting to reserve a room is not so great.

I'd certainly look at hotel rates in advance for overlapping date ranges. That will help you identify periods that are unduly costly, perhaps because of a special event. Since you have just two destinations, playing around with hotel dates and rates while you're monitoring airfares shouldn't be terribly burdensome.

I'd prefer a central location rather than more square footage, too.

The subject of budget lodging options in London and Paris comes up pretty often. If you can't find earlier threads via the search function, you might scroll back through the England and France forums, looking for budget-hotel-related topics. I'd recommend looking at rooms in college dorms in London, but I don't think any of them are air conditioned,

Don't forget that the low-cost travel options betwern London and Paris sell out early, so that's not something you can leave until the last minute. Early purchase of Eurostar tickets will save you a lot of money.

I always do flights first .

I would fly into London and take Eurostar to Paris then fly home
from Paris . This is easy to do on Airtransat . Saves you back tracking cost and times too. Purchase the Eurostar tickets at least three months in advance more if able , as rates are cheapest

We have always found London is pricey , more so than Paris or amsterdam ( which is pricey too) so gird your loins to pay up lol !
In London you could stay at the Celtic Hotel , get a room with a private bathroom for you and your youngest to share ( a triple we've had it and it's a decent size ) and then get the two teens a room with bathroom in hall ( they can share yours too if you wish but at least they have the option of the hall bathroom ( it's very clean , we did this last year with our daughter and her boyfriend , we got room with private bath and they didn't , they were happy with room ) . The hotel supplies a FULL English cooked to order breakfast !!' That saves you money ! It's small and family run , and close to Russell square ( plus walk to British Museum ) great area and lovely family , felt super safe and clean , only downside is no ac , but you will have a tough time dindong that in an apartment too.

Your biggest issue is most hotels will not put five in a room , it will be difficult to find this ( we were a family of five too) so you need a suite hotel and those can be pricey .

For Paris I can recommend Parisbestlodge apartments I have used them 4 times now and they are great ! No big up front payment etc . They have one two bedroom unit that would be perfect for you , just across from Luxembourg Gardens , perfect area ! Contact them and see if it's available , if it is snap it up .
You can also check out the Citedines Aparthotels , not cheap but at least may have a suite that will take five and a kitchenette .

Another option in Paris is the Hotel , well reviewed ( read up on them) great area , and good price , a simple breakfast included ( as in toast and coffee/ juice ) but there is a shared kitchen to use which is nice to heat up take out etc . You can get rooms for five there or put teens in their own room .

You can book rooms first if your dates are fixed and many times you can get changeable reservations. Then watch airfares and hope for a sale.

I can recommend the Jesmond Dene Hotel which has a room that will hold 5 people although
the bathroom is shared with another room. When you book on the hotel website they include breakfast. It is very near Kings Cross and so its easy to travel around London and for Eurostar to Paris. Rooms that hold 5 people are rare in both London and Paris.

Enjoy the trip!

I always book accommodations first. We just did a similar trip this past summer wth our kids 12 and 9. We flew onto Gatwick with Westjet and then took the Eurostar to Paris. We rented apartments from VRBO as well like having extra space and the option to have some meals "at home"
We like being central as we like the option of being bale to walk many places and coming back to take breaks during the day if needed.

What is your accommodation budget?

I agree with trying to be central.

Take a look at university accommodation:

Bankside House is right near Tate Modern and offers a range of university rooms during student vacations: http://www.lsevacations.co.uk/Accommodation/Bankside-House/Bankside-House.aspx

Or look at:
http://www.universityrooms.com/en/city/london/home

There are also Citadines branches in London - the ones at Holborn and Northumberland Avenue are very central. The one on City Road may be a bit cheaper but has poorer public transport options. (It's also in a slightly more marginal area but if you and your sons are reasonably used to staying in cities it should be fine.)

I'd look into the London School of Economics. They rent dorm space when students are not there. They also run an apartment building (give students experience). Check out this site [http://www.lsevacations.co.uk/Home.aspx#sthash.ujbrp8iQ.dpbs][1]
Other universities may also rent dorm space. You usually get rooms, access to the student 'lounge' (TV, games, etc.), sometimes food plans, and some have laundry facilities. LSE has several very central locations with good access to buses and the tube.

Holy smokes, I never expected such a quick and robust set of responses. Thank you everyone! I'll be following up on all these suggestions. It was the Celtic hotel that first caught my eye, based on recommendations elsewhere on the forum. I'll check the others, too!

Sharon, you mentioned flying WestJet to Gatwick and Eurostar to Paris, so did you return to London for the flight home? Was just looking in to them and they're cheaper than Air Canada (and lovely, by many accounts) but I see they don't fly to Paris.

I think I might make a speculative reservation based on our proposed dates, just to have something locked down. If I need to change it based on flights, I will. Fantastic info, thank you so much!

A long time ago we stayed at the Univ. of Glasgow's student residence in the city of Glasgow. It was quite reasonably priced but a pretty spartan place to stay. The women's bathrooms were a very, very long walk from our room down a dreary corridor, and made for a pretty unpleasant journey in the middle of the night. There was a large tour group of seniors (Saga?) also lodged in the residence while we were there, who had lengthy song-songs every night in the communal lounge, all very folksy but I could well have done without it. Just a word or two of warning.

Edit: it was the University of Strathclyde, not the Univ. of Glasgow.. just remembered.

Ha Norma, your experience reminds me of mine staying in a convent dormitory in Venice as a single female traveller years ago. It was undoubtedly safe, but it was far from pleasant!

The Jesmond Dene is a great suggestion, thank you! Looks like I might have to wait a bit to check out some of the dorm availabilities, as most aren't listed for July 2018 yet. I also like the hostel idea. My family is not yet convinced! I'll keep working on them.

:)

With 3 teenage boys and 3-1/2 weeks we visited Scotland, York, London, Dordogne, Normandy and Paris. All the boys liked Scotland best. We flew Gatwick to Bordeaux, no Eurostar, the boys wanted to but it's restricting in its own way to go center to center.

Suggest you fly into Scotland and home from France. Reducing time in London (esp) and Paris means a longer trip due to saved money, and gets you out of huge cities.

I just think 2 weeks in two big cities is limiting, although many will chime in saying that it's ideal.

I like the website EuroCheapo; here's their London page. Just be aware that the places listed on it are not secrets, so don't wait too long if one is appealing to you. http://www.eurocheapo.com/london/

If you do want an apartment, those can be harder to get for certain dates, so you may want to book that before flights. For hotels and dorms, those are much more flexible, so you'll probably want to book flights first. I agree that for flights, you should cast a wide net, since there is no longer any predictability. Look at different dates and routes. Can you use Montreal airport in addition of Ottawa - that would give more options, although not necessarily lower prices.

Usually, it's cheaper to fly into London and out of Paris rather than the reverse, due to taxes, but you have to check both routes to see.

You will want to book your Eurostar trains from London to Paris when they go on sale - six months ahead - for best prices.

We did take the Eurostar back to London to fly home.

I just wrote a long response and lost it somehow. The basic idea was that you would be much better off with an apartment, even if it means paying more to be in the center. Try booking.com, TripAdvisor, and VRBO. You have three boys to feed and cannot skimp. We have rented apartments in London for periods of 1-3 weeks and found it cost-effective because groceries are relatively inexpensive ( fruits and vegetables cheaper than here, dwarf the meat and dairy about the same). Restaurant/cafe/take out prices OTOH are much higher.

I have edited my post upthread to note that it was the Strathclyde University
residence in Glasgow where we stayed, not Glasgow University.

I book air first, because it's the biggest chunk of money for a single item, and I don't want to hope I can work around lodging reservations (especially if your apartment wants a deposit at time of booking).

Look for multi-city fares, into London/out of Paris, or vice versa.

Emma, I have a few apartment rentals that would be good choices for us saved. One is a townhouse in Shoreditch, one an apartment in Dalston and one a row house in Highbury. And there were a few second tier choices in Walthamstow. I continue to waver between the comfort (and cost savings) of a place outside the city core, and the "adventure" of being in the heart of the city. I wonder, too, if there are cost savings in not having five of us commuting every day, instead of being able to walk. At least we have some options!

Highbury/Islington is not very convenient to sights, stayed there, there's a lot of tube transferring and the time adds up, same with Dalston.

Again suggesting a very central location and more of a "hit and run" approach to London with a few carefully orchestrated days more productive/economical than a longer stay in an apartment out of center with around 2 hours a day underground: sitting, waiting, transferring, and it's always too far to take a midday break at lodging. Time wasted trying to find tube entrances is something locals forget about, also, they can be almost hidden.

There are really 2 most common approaches to London: a week out of center with a week underground pass with a lot of commuting time, with evenings spent pooped and at lodging, or a shorter central stay with a mix of walking, taxis, bus and tube, with evenings spent out after a short rest @ lodging.

Just trying to raise topics, and I realize my preferences may not be yours.

I almost always book airfare first, but for some reason for my upcoming 2018 trip I went ahead and booked a few accommodations before booking airfare. Well, of course - I was booking with miles and couldn't get my preferred dates so ended up changing a few reservations. This was not a big deal except for 1 of the reservations I had unwittingly booked a prepay - non refundable room:( Total stupidity on my part! Just a word of warning:) I'm sure you will be more careful than I was!

Last post & Quick aside to Emma: locals are sophisticated tube users, they have the fare payment already sorted, they know the fastest lines, the quickest transfers, which entrances are closed for construction, don't spend time studying maps every time, don't misread maps and take the wrong line or get off at the wrong station, know most tube stops are single-loaded so don't go to the platform for the wrong direction and have to backtrack (nearly all North American rail is double-loaded, rail on both sides of the platform, so one needn't bother with the desired direction until actually on the platform), then there's the disorientation coming out of a station for the first time and starting off the opposite direction, all the inefficiencies add up.

Highbury/Islington does offer both tube and overground trains. From Heathrow taking tube change Green Park not Kings Cross.

Thanks for the neighbourhood insight, Emma. It doesn't complicate things at all - the more informed I feel, the more confident I am in making choices.

Thanks too for all the advice Tom! I appreciate it.