Train construction - Bath to Conwy

We will all get off the train at Rhyl and they will drive us to Conwy?

Yes

Am I going to be hours late getting to Conwy?

No, it’s a 30 minute journey.

Once purchased, never look back on fares, like on an airline. There is dynamic pricing. These things happen.
There will be dedicated buses or coaches waiting straight outside the station. Staff will be on hand to direct you. Do ask which bus as there is likely to be a fast bus to Bangor and Holyhead (maybe just Holyhead) only straight down the A55 expressway and a second bus going all local stations like Conwy.
Exact details will be published a week or two beforehand
Although it doesn't matter to you there is also a local "citybus" system which runs along the coast, so you would never get stuck anywhere on the North Wales coast.
Be on your toes at Newport- you have a 5 minute change there. Its perfectly do-able or it wouldn't be advertised, but a bit tighter than ideal.
Your tickets are booked now, but normally I'd have said take the train half an hour earlier to Newport (on a separate ticket) then Newport to Conwy. That may or may not also have worked out cheaper- often does, but what is done is done.

I hope that you have not yet purchased the tickets as the prices you are seeing are too far in advance - prior to the cheaper Advance fares being loaded. Wait 2 weeks from now and you should find that you can bag Bath to Conwy on the same trains for £39.75 each including your Railcard discount. You will see that what I say is correct by changing the date to say Sunday 7th May and up will come the cheaper price. However, the summer timetable kicks in on the 21 May - so the times of the trains will be different.

I’m so thankful for everyone’s helpful feedback and support.

No, I haven’t bought tickets yet, but time is ticking and I thought I was too late for advance tickets now - am I?

I’m also worried about only five minutes between transfers and I don’t know how to buy a series of tickets from Bath to Newport THEN a ticket from Newport to Conwy with more lag time in between.

I’ve noticed on the various sites that the train times seem to be different from one site to the next. The prices are different too. And the sites seems to keep showing me trips on different days - not May 21. The Transport for Wales site is super expensive.

It is worth playing around as often, but not always, the next train (1228 out of bath, 1737 Conwy, 17 minute connection at Newport) is a cheaper train.
Times and fares for the same train on the same day should always be identical on any train company website.

Put in Bath to Newport into the planners, see what fares you get, then try Newport to Conwy, then try Bath to Conwy.

If you wanted to take the earlier train but wanted more time at Newport on split tickets you would take the 0911 from Bath. On the early train both the 0911 and 0940 from bath are changes at Bristol Temple Meads before Newport.

On the 1228 the train goes straight to Newport, so one less chance for things to go wrong at.

The 12 week rule on Advance Tickets varies between companies. In this case you are too soon (!), not too late. T(ransport) f(for) W(ales) rarely reaches the 12 weeks. On many companies you can set up a notification for Advance fares release- I can't find that on TfW.

Although not super cheap you can get "advance" fares in Wales up to 5 minutes before travel.

You can't do it on the internet but on the ticket machines at my local station, when I book an advance ticket I can specify the length of connection I want.

If you do miss the connection you are automatically accepted on the next train 2 hours later.

Normally at Newport you cross a bridge inside the station to switch trains, but sometimes it is a cross platform connection- just depends.

Although I don't recommend it, in my part of the country I often see advance fares go down about a week or two before travel. It's a case of judging the sweet point. Two fares on Bath to Conwy at £60 is as good as it gets. If you find those bag them quickly.

All the train company sites (Like TfW) usually offer the same price(s) - along with the national rail website. So, you can book too far ahead and see really expensive prices. It seems that around 10 weeks out is when most train companies load their Cheaper Advance tickets for their trains. On some routes, it is cheaper to split the tickets - especially where you have to switch train company but sometimes this is cheaper even when you stay on the same train at the calling place which is a 'split’. These sites are good for finding where split ticketing works out cheaper - thought they will take a commission on the amount saved:>
https://www.traintickets.com/?/
https://trainsplit.com

I would give it a few days - maybe even by tomorrow, and you should find the £39.75 (RC) fares coming up for Bath to Conwy on the Transport for Wales website - though you don’t have to buy the ticket from them but it will make it easier to get compensation should something go wrong - such as missing the connection at Newport. (If the GWR train from Bath is late, it is GWR who must pay you the compensation).

It is regrettable that you are travelling on Sunday as that is when engineering work might take place. Had you done the journey on Saturday 20th May, you could have left Bath at 12.40 with 1 change at Newport to arrive Conwy at 17.22 for £39.75 (Railcard price).

It looks to me that your Sunday May 21 journey would be as follows:> (in brackets = ultimate train destination).
9.33 leave Bath P1 on GWR (Exeter); arrive Bristol Temple Meads P10 at 9.48: CHANGE
dep Bristol P11 at 10.10 GWR (Cardiff) which will arrive Newport P2 at 10.43 CHANGE From Newport all trains will be Transport for Wales.
dep Newport P3 at 10.49 (Manchester) which arrives Crewe P5 at 13.28. CHANGE
dep Crewe P12 14.29 (Holyhead) which will arrive Conwy at 15.51.

If you arrive on P2 at Newport and the Manchester train is departing from P3 - just go straight across - you do not need to cross the bridge but check the signage.

Don’t take what I have said as gospel - it is just the way it looks to me as of now. If you are not splitting the ticket, you should have the one journey on one ticket for each person. If they fail to get you to Conwy on time and you want to claim compensation - keep the tickets as proof. If the line is shut for engineering - they will transfer you to a bus. The distance from Rhyl to Conwy is not that great but Rhyl is a horrible place so don’t think that Wales is like that.

PS. The Welsh Government are all for promoting the Welsh language - which is spoken by around 18% of the population of Wales - who can also speak English. You will find that announcements for trains in Wales are given in Welsh first and English second. Signs will flash between the 2 languages.

I’m wondering about Reading and how timings would work via Reading.

Reading is the seriously long way round, you're changing additionally in Birmingham, and certainly won't be cheaper.

The other way to achieve the same end would be change at Bristol Temple Meads for Birmingham New Street, then change there into the 2 hourly train to North Wales, but again that will always be more expensive due to the prices Cross Country charge.

Be aware that platform allocations at Newport and Crewe change at the last second. That happened to me last year (not for the first time) at Newport at 5am. The station was empty, almost no passengers and no other trains except mine and my connection. I'd checked my platform allocation on the live running app 5 minutes before, then the train I was on was brought to a stop on empty tracks, and suddenly re-platformed. I missed my connection as a result as I was the wrong end of the train for the bridge on the revised platform. A breathless dash later and I see the doors of the connection close on me. Thanks TfW.

Just be patient at this stage and see what happens. From personal preference my choice would be the lunchtime train.

another reason for avoiding Cross Country if you can is that the short tin can trains they run are often overcrowded (Thank You Operation Princess from which the Cross Country routes have never recovered although by now it is ancient history) and noisy and generally uncomfortable. They don't have the best record for on-time performance either (but to be fair they do cover a lot of miles).

Say you do miss the connection at Newport? This is what you should do:>
Take the 11.54 departure from Newport P4 (Manchester); arrive Crewe P6 at 14.21 - CHANGE - dep. Crewe P11 14.45 (Avanti West Coast London to Holyhead express - be sure to be in the correct half as this train will divide at Chester - so I guess it will be the front half that will continue to North Wales). This express will not stop at Conwy so you get off at Llandudno Junction - arrives 16.07. Llandudno Junction is just over a mile east of Conwy so either take a bus or taxi that short distance to your hotel.

Even though you are not booked to travel on the Avanti train, they are obligated to take you at no cost to you due to things going wrong earlier with the missed connection at Newport. In the unlikely event that they want to charge you, you can reclaim the money as part of the compensation for being late from the company that made you late.

PS. The Cross Country route is closed for engineering between Cheltenham & Birmingham with buses being used to transfer passengers so I would rule that out as an alternative. (Sunday engineering work). In the event of engineering work on your final leg in north Wales, the train company will provide bus transport.

Take the Avanti timetable as a guide only- that is NOT confirmed yet- it is not confirmed until at least 29 March, and will terminate like all other trains at Rhyl with the bus forward.
Their trains don't have a magic pass to get through the engineering work.
They may not even run the Holyhead section beyond Chester when the timetable is confirmed, but run a fast bus from Chester to Holyhead, as that is the fastest option. We simply don't know, but that is what they often do.
This is information from Avanti themselves- not from journey planners.

https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/travel-information/plan-your-journey/timetables

Just be patient for now and wait until timetables are issued. Anything anyone else says currently is conjecture. Everyone gets far too hung up on 10 to 12 weeks beforehand. On a weekday it is fine, on a weekend it is not. The timescales are far more constrained than that.
Even on a weekday whatever RS or the man in seat 61 says, since Covid you really don't need to be booking 3 months out- bargains abound until far closer to the time. They are so 2019, not up with the here and now.
This still is a very, very minor issue, a barely perceptible one, of a very short bus journey, on a dedicated bus, not a public bus. These creative diversions round half of Britain are out of all context to that. Keep it simple. I can't believe how many posts such a none problem has taken.
We only have a problem when we have a problem. We don't currently have a problem.

Update- the £39.75 railcard fare Bath to Conwy fare is now coming up. This fare is a flexible fare so would allow you to travel on the earlier Bath to Newport service as discussed. That fare can be purchased at any time between now and 5 minutes before travel, so there is no rush.
However TfW are now saying that correct timings and fares will be released in 2 weeks time, on 28 March.
At that point the railcard advance tickets at £21.45 each should be released.
Yes I am monitoring this for you.
EDIT ON 30 MARCH- There is a further delay on timetable and ticket release- now due on 31 March

FINAL EDIT-
The final timings are now issued, because of bus timings he should now travel to Llandudno Junction, then bus or taxi (or even walk over the bridge) to his final destination in Conwy-
The timings are-
Bath depart 0911, Bristol Temple Meads (change) 0929/0941 Newport a 1021 (change) depart 1049 Crewe a 1328 (change) d 1355 Rhyl a 1524 (change to rail replacement bus) d 1534 Llandudno Junction a 1606
NOTE that the 0940 from Bath via Bristol arriving at Newport at 1045 is NOT a booked connection- the MCT is 5 minutes.
OR
Bath depart 1002 Newport a 1108, (change) d 1154, Crewe a 1421 (change) d 1445 Rhyl a 1549 (change to rail replacement bus) d 1619 Llandudno Junction a 1651
(there is a later train from Bath at 1031 to Newport, change Bristol, arrive Newport 1144, but that is just importing uncalled for risk).

The next service from Rhyl to Conwy after 1524 is at 1646- change back to train at Llandudno Junction

I bought tickets departing 9:11 am and arriving Llandudno at 16:06.

What do you mean it is not a “booked connection”? I’m sorry I don’t understand. Can you explain?

Thank you

By the way there is a BUS number 19 (destination Betws-y-Coed,run by Llew Jones coaches) at 1615 from Llandudno station yard to Conwy arrive 1619, fare £2.

The later buses are on Arriva Service 5 to Bangor, and stop around the corner, not in the Station Yard, so are not suitable.

The next 19 bus is at 1734 (same time as the train).

There is a minimum connection time at each station for a train to be considered to be a "booked connection". The standard is 5 minutes. At Crewe and Bristol Temple Meads it is 10 minutes (I have just re-checked these).
Sure you might make a tighter connection if trains are on time and are cross platform, but don't blame the train company if you don't.
So on the old timetable the 0940 ex Bath had a 6 minute connection- that was OK, if tight. Now it has been retimed and it is a 4 minute connection.
You never ever know if you will be cross platform (just because it is scheduled to be doesn't mean it will actually be) and train doors can be closed up to one minute before departure time.
So you take the 0940 from Bath and miss the 1049 from Newport, it's a new ticket if you meet a grumpy guard or TTI- most will wave you through, but the day you need that to happen is the day you meet a "jobsworth".
If the 0911 from Bath were cancelled and you were on the 0940 then you are covered, but it's a high stakes gamble.
The working timetable (rather than the public one) shows that the train from Bristol arrives at 1045 (not 1044 1/4 or 1044 1/2 or 1044 3/4) and the Crewe train departs at 1049 and 30 seconds. So even then you are 30 seconds short.

There is another question, running concurrently to this one, Reading is a MCT of 7 minutes, London Paddington (Tube or Elizabeth line to Main Line trains) 15 minutes and Slough (Main Line to Windsor) 3 minutes. Chester is 10 minutes.
Shows how it varies.
You don't generally need to know Minimum Connecting Times as they are built into Journey Planners and ticketing systems, but when people try to over ride journey planners, do over enthusiastic ticket splits or use paper timetables they become important.
I had forgotten that Carlisle (my local interchange) was 8 minutes as I can do it in much less if pushed, when I go into auto-pilot mode. On final approach, if late, I'll have used real time running data so don't need to check platform monitors, and will have moved within the arriving train to the best exit door.
If I have to I resort to yells down the platform, or hand signals, to the train despatcher!

I will arrive at Llandudno Junction at 16:06. I read a helpful post saying that I can take bus 19 from the Llandudno Junction train station to Conwy about 10 minutes after that for £2.

Are there also taxis at the train station or if I want a taxi do I have to pre order one?

There are always normally taxis there. But there is also a taxi office straight outside the station, so just pop in to the office if there isn't a taxi in sight.

Thank you!

Can I assume that Sunday night doesn’t pose an issue for a taxi?

No it won't. Late Friday or Saturday night might!

One more question if you can indulge me…. It looks as though the train times have altered a bit since I originally bought my ticket.

Will my ticket be adjusted at the station or updated to reflect the new times? I have a TFW e ticket.

You're telling me. I've just looked it up. No bus now in North Wales, as the Engineering work looks to be cancelled, and it now looks like you can leave Bath at 1004 direct to Newport, not the 0940 changing at Bristol, with a rock solid connection at Newport.
That seems a big change to me. From what I'm seeing you are now due at Llandudno Junction at 1545.

You have a ticket for trains which no longer run as you booked them. You don't need to do anything, just travel on trains closest to what was booked.

However looking at TfW I see that the electric wires are down between Newport and Cardiff, with disruption expected until next week.
I think the choice is yours now- travel on the 0940 via Bristol, or the 1002 direct to Newport. If you take the 0940 and make the 1049 (if it's running and on time and has seats) fine, otherwise you have an 1154 which still gets you in at 1545. I am assuming the 1154 is what you booked on. I see no reason to wait at Crewe for the next train that gets you into LJ at 1606. I think you can now just sit back and take things as they come. Connections will just happen as they do. You may be really lucky and find they start your train at Newport, not Cardiff, if there is still disruption,

I currently have a ticket that says the following — see below.

So much has changed (for the better if it actually works out) but it’s confusing that I have a ticket with all the wrong times and how best to keep track?

• What about reservations/seats/full trains?

• Does it matter that the ticket prices are higher for that 10:02 train?

9:11-9:29 Bath to Bristol
9:41-10:11 Bristol to Newport
10:49-13:28 Newport to Crewe
14:29-15:24 Crewe to Rhyl
15:34-16:06 Rhyl to Llandudno Junction
Bus or taxi to Conwy

Your 9.41 train from Bristol should depart from Platform 5 to arrive Newport on Platform 2. Your 10.49 train from Newport should depart from platform 3 - which is just a change across the platform (no stairs or lifts). Double check in case of any last minute changes (unlikely).

Engineering work on the line in north Wales is cancelled so no bus transfer needed at Rhyl.

The big fly in the ointment is the current rolling stock situation.

At least the 1049 from Newport has today been strengthened from 2 cars to 4 cars, which will much ease capacity. I can't tell which way round the train is marshalled- but it's a class 150 and 2x one car class 153's.
The seating in either of the single car class 153's is far better, if there is room.

The next train- the 1154 from Newport- is CANCELLED (the one that connects off the 1002 from Bath).

The following train- 1249 from Newport is also strengthened to 4 cars- in this case a pair of Class 150's.

PS- the 1429 from Crewe will run through to Llandudno Junction today, arrive at 1545 (final destination Holyhead).
That train is a two car train.
The following 1445 which arrives at Llandudno Junction at 1607 is a 5 car Avanti train, and is currently showing as sold out, which suggests that it is standing room only.

Basically, Transport for Wales are dragging their feet in getting their new trains into service. These class 150 /153 trains that are providing your services today were really meant for branch lines - not long distance runs. They are old and have no air conditioning. The front coach of the train going north from Newport might be a bit better than the others - so maybe stand towards the east of the platform waiting for its arrival - that’s if you are reading this in time.

In the event that you end up on the later Avanti train from Crewe and it is full, I would think that space could be found in 1st class. Whether they charge you extra for that or not I don’t know.

I have been watching your trains, and if you travelled as booked pleased to see that all went well, in the end.

The cause of the delay on the 1049 from Newport is traced back to a problem attaching the 3 trains together at Cardiff before the start of the first journey of the day.
But the train made up it's time anyway by Crewe.

It is also worth knowing that the 1429 connection to North Wales at Crewe is always scheduled, under the new timetable to use the quite rarely utilised Platform 12 at Crewe (as it has come up as an empty train from Shrewsbury, literally straight behind your train from Newport). So if you head over to Platform 12 good and early you'd be the first one on to choose your seat when the doors open.
I also hope that you realised that, after all the talk about getting off at Llandudno Junction for a bus/taxi over the bridge that the 1428 from Crewe actually calls at Conwy. Hopefully the conductor let you do that, as it is the same base fare from Bath.

I wanted to say thank you to everyone who provided advice and suggestions for this train ride. You were spot on with platform numbers and number of carriages. The train was very crowded with many people standing, but we managed to get seats.

Also — as suggested, we were planning to ask the conductor if we could stay one more stop and get off at Conwy - but there was no conductor to be found on the crowded train. We ended up getting off at the Llandudno Junction and got a £5 taxi ride direct to our BnB. The taxi company is IN the train station building.

Thanks again everyone.

Pleased it worked out well despite the old & short trains. As your train had people standing, I expect the conductor had given up checking tickets on the train and was in the rear cab.