Tragic news from Hadrians Wall

Terrible news. 16 year old boy has been arrested. See BBC News report:> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJldWeV3CcQ

Oh my. That is awful. Why oh why??

I just saw this in news. How very sad! We hoped to visit there nxt summer for first time! Tragic for those that are local and experienced the history through their lifetime! A 16 yr old’s brain can make some very regretful decisions!!

This is just awful. I am so sorry.

🤬😡🤬

Happy that I visited the site in March 2022.

I wasn't familiar with Sycamore Gap. Will just say that my walk along the wall near Housesteads in August 1985 remains a highlight in my memory of travels. I took a lot of photos --- 35mm slides. They are still gorgeous.

My faith in humanity is at such a low ebb these days. The potential of human beings for cruelty, abuse, and debasement of the natural world just seems to know few bounds.

Stupid is as stupid does. 16 year old brain. Twit.

I agree that the loss of the iconic symbol at the wall is quite tragic. However, I think I will withhold judgement on the person currently accused of this crime for a few reasons. 1. I don’t know the facts of the story 2. I don’t know what mental health issues might be involved.

This is a summer of torons. There are pictures of touridiots standing on arches in the Arches Park where it says "Do not stand on the arches". People disfigure walls. People climb on statues. It's like the stupid is turned up to 12.

Ianandjulie
I was just in your beautiful county last week. Passing through the Dales on the Settle-Carlisle rail route and onto Edinburgh. I just heard the sad news about the Sycamore tree. Something of such beauty gone forever. Just sad all the way around.

I continue to be flummoxed and appalled by some of the things people do. I wonder what they were thinking or were they thinking at all.

It appears that the tree was cut by a power tool and that required some kind of planning and preparation. If an axe or two-person saw had been used, the process probably would've been slower, more challenging and potentially more dangerous.

We will eventually learn how this vandalism was accomplished, but in any case, I'd expect that more than one person was involved. Hopefully we will also learn why.

Hi -

While a 16 year old is in police custody I think it’s important to appreciate that unless something’s happened in the last hour that I’m not aware of, the person in question has not been charged, much less tried, and we probably have to keep cool heads and not rush to judgement. We can all agree the act itself is a crime and as stupid as stupid ever gets, but beyond that we have to wait for the wheels of the law to grind slowly to a conclusion.

That’s what sets us apart from the morons.

Ian

I’m so sorry to hear that this iconic tree was cut down. Just shocking.

Terrible and senseless.
So sad that this person had no respect for nature or for this iconic historic site.

Via an Associated Press syndicated report the news of the felling of this tree has even made The Seattle Times, which I find amazing.

the 16 year old is out on bail, not charged. A 60 year old man has now been arrested.

The ‘experts’ (I.e social media commentators) have been speculating that it was too big a job for a sixteen year old to pull off on his own. With the latest arrest it looks like they might have been right.

The National Park authorities believe that as the tree was healthy when felled, it may produce shoots from the stump and over decades (centuries?) grow back to something like it’s former glory. Best of a bad job, but we can but hope.

Ian

The loss of the iconic tree is awful, and changes how the Gap will look to an observer. Senseless vandalism makes it all the worse.

However, when I hiked Hadrian’s Wall in 2017, I noticed a much smaller tree a few feet to the south of the big one. I thought it was completely overshadowed by the huge one, but that it was doing its best to grow big, too. A dry stone wall circle had been built around it, to maybe keep sheep (or humans?) away. Unless an evil, cruel person has cut it down, too, there exists a tree that will be there to marvel at in the future. None of us may live long enough to see it fully replace the other one, but all is not completely lost.

There are a lot of bad people, however.

I just saw an article about this. What a shame. I remember the beautiful sight of it in silhouette against the sky.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/englands-beloved-sycamore-gap-tree-chopped-down-180982987/?utm_source=smithsoniandaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial&spMailingID=48858057&spUserID=NzQwNDU4NjczOTUS1&spJobID=2543297615&spReportId=MjU0MzI5NzYxNQS2

If a tree falls in the forest (or along Hadrian’s Wall in this case), a lot of people hear it.

Unfortunately, it appears that the smaller tree to which I referred in my earlier post is also gone. The aerial photo in the story that Lola attached shows a horizontal dirt path running off the right edge of the photo. Just above that path are the faint remains of a fairly large circle of stone, the remnants of the foundation of the wall that encircled that smaller tree. And there’s no sign of that tree that stood six years ago. So, any replacement will need even more time, plus some luck or protection.

The backstory interests me too. Why should you do something like this? Vandalism is most of the time spontanious, an outburst of anger. For this it needs some time and a bit of planning. But it remains guessing. Hopefully we learn more soon.

I was struck by the comments Jamie Driscoll made in the article Lola posted. He was impressed by how clean the cuts were. I’ve used a small chainsaw before and that was a huge tree to cut down. Such a sad loss.

I am so sorry to hear about this. Ian, thank you for sharing. It will add some melancholy to my visit when I’m there next year, but I’m glad that there is still so much to see and appreciate at Hadrian’s Wall.

The retired lumberjack has also been released on bail. For the record he has heart problems and there are severe doubts as to whether he was physically capable of such an action.

Meanwhile a local man planted a replacement sapling close by- which was removed by the National Trust on the grounds of it being a World Heritage Site, and the sapling could potentially damage underlying archaeology I hope they tell that story to any saplings anywhere on the wall which happen to wildly plant themselves. Presumably the felled tree planted itself wildly without permission several hundred years ago.

Ah, sounds like the classic ‘old hand with young apprentice to do the heavy lifting’. If that’s the case it’s hardly a spontaneous act of vandalism. There’s more to be revealed about this, or at least I hope so.

The National Trust says that the tree was deliberately planted as a landscape feature by John Clayton (who is largely responsible for the original conservation/preservation of Hadrian’s Wall as we see it today) back in the late 1800’s.

A Caithness small holder, who one assumes is an expert in these matters, had this to say about the chances of re growth (I believe his words were echoed - if that’s the word, it would be a hell of an echo - by Brian Blessed of “Gordon’s alive!” fame) when interviewed:

“That tree isn’t dead it’s going to grow back. By next spring it will start pushing out shoots so that by the end of next year it will be taller than me. With a little bit of shaping or even just letting nature take its course, it will in time revert to a full maiden tree. It’s going to recover because 40% of the mass of a tree is below ground in the toots. Those roots are full of energy with massive amount of carbohydrates ready to start pushing branches out again. […] It’s just gone away for a little while, it’s not dead.“

“The Sycamore’s alive!!” We can but hope!

Ian

Concerned local: Ba-doom - Tish! You’re here all week, right?!! 😂😂😂

"The Sun newspaper has christened whoever did this Bad Fellers.
In all fairness that's a cracking headline."

In spite of the sadness of the situation, you are right that is an awesome headline!

In a swerve to different terminology in different areas, in Idaho they're called "Fallers" and you "fall a tree" not fell it.

A most sensational tabloid might call them “Axe Murderers.”

In a swerve to different terminology in different areas, in Idaho they're called "Fallers" and you "fall a tree" not fell it.

In another example of differing terminology I was looking at bus routes at the weekend and what you call bus slips (at Spokane and Seattle bus stations) we call bus bays in the UK. On other threads I have seen other people call the bus bays at Heathrow 'stalls'. A word we don't use in that context in the UK.

Nothing is safe there, even under the nose of the investigators. :-)

It would seem that the investigation is expanding with additional suspects and now the Irish police - the Guarda - are involved. Apparently they are looking for tree fellers.

This mystery continues unsolved. As sad as it is…an historical tree felled near ancient Roman ruins is a classic sleuth mystery novel. I hope there is justice and we get updated info.

I wouldn’t hold your breath. It will be difficult to prove and unless the tree was specifically protected (I have no idea whether it was or not) and if the police eventually do, the most serious charge they could probably bring would be criminal damage, the penalties for which are not particularly swingeing (this form a conversation with a retired police officer this past weekend).

So the police have not huge incentive to prioritise this over their other more important day to day stuff (even though we might wish it to be otherwise) other than the PR element of a quick ‘collar’. If this gets resolved on a criminal charge front, I believe it will take quite some time as, like I said earlier, the wheels of justice grind exceedingly slowly - and in this case may grind to a halt. I hope we get to find out who did cut the tree down and some form of punishment is handed down, but I think our attentions might be better diverted into what a) happens to the felled tree (if anything) and b) what grows - or doesn’t - in Sycamore Gap going forward.

Ian

While I would agree the ‘why?’ is the most intriguing of all the questions, if we were ever to find out it may be more petty and uninteresting than we expect.

Given the National Park have removed the sapling some guy planted in the aftermath of the felling for archaeological reasons, I can’t see a Gormley-esque statue going up for much the same reasons - there may be yet unexcavated ruins in the vicinity. No, best bet is the hope that the original tree sprouts new shoots which can be managed over the next few years to put us on the way to a replacement original. For once - just once - we maybe have to think and plan long term. I think the stump will be a place of pilgrimage for a while and may well need some sort of protection/management if the original does show signs of new growth in the future.

Ian

The death of a single tree is a tragedy, the death of millions a statistic.

Mangotree's statement is definitely food for thought! This has always been my concern. People strip their land of trees with out a thought around here.

On the other hand (art history person here), trees are replaceable, damaged art is often not even repairable. Consequently, while it is unfortunate that this happened, I don't think it can be compared to damaged art.

The cynic in me (OK, roll your eyes here. LOL)...it seems the powers that be don't want another tree there so as not to damage underlying archaeological possibilities. How convenient...

I would like to walk Hadrian's Wall walk someday. It's on my list...

I agree with Wray that everyone seems to be finding very involved excuses to do exactly nothing about planting a new tree. If the old one was planted on purpose 200 odd years ago, surely the precedent is there.
If they are that worried then now is the time to do serious archaeology there.

Concerned local.

If you actually look it up that is exactly what the story is said to be, that it was planted there on purpose.

Planted as a landscape feature by John Clayton, the then landowner. That story is from the National Trust.

While the news media keep saying 200 years the NT reckon between 130 and 160 years.

And people most certainly did plant trees then, albeit mostly as woodlands or copses.

Actually, the felled tree at Sycamore Gap was deliberately planted in the late 1890’s by John Clayton. This must be correct as it’s on the interwebs and everything! But I think we can safely say it was deliberately planted and not a happy accident.

I do agree though that the lowest of low key responses is required at the site. I maintain that seeing if the tree regrows is the first best option, but I fear even that would require some initial protection in the early stages of its growth. I have no faith in the National Trust or the National Park swiftly agreeing anything commemorative in the near future, I think the way these things are decided means it will take years and years for any decision to be made let alone implemented. For a prime example of this see the way the crossing of the A19 on the soon-to-be-a-National-Trail Coast to Coast path has developed, a Kafka-esque mess of arguments and stupid decisions, with a net result of building a safe crossing not happening (as they can’t agree on the exact sort of crossing) in favour of a long diversion to another existing crossing (which won’t be used at the end of a long day crossing the Vale of Mowbray in favour of continuing to use the unpleasant dash across the busy A19). Bureaucracy at its finest!

Ian

Vandals have been a problem at Roman locations for a long time. The land there is fertile (sheep droppings help, too), and long-term, something will thrive. In the short term, though, it’s a real shame that the tree was cut down.

The tree is to be cut up and removed from site by crane tomorrow (Thursday), with the intention of saving the tree sections for re-use.

Seeds have been collected from the tree to be propogated for new saplings- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-67077617

A similarly iconic tree in British Columbia was wantonly destroyed in 1997 by a deranged forester to make a statement. The fascinating story is told in the book The Golden Spruce, which I highly recommend.

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/88335

In this case they know exactly who cut down the tree, but not exactly why. He disappeared into the mists of Haida Gwaii before he could be brought to justice.