TIPS - Who Gets The Money?

Tl:dr. Don't care. We leave a tip for good service. What they do with it is their business. They can fight it out amongst themselves.

Funny, in Germany waiters make less from tips than waiters do in the US (except from American customers), but I have found service there to be far superior to service in this country.

In my experience over two recent trips to London, most of the restaurants present a check with a 10% or 12.5% service charge included. It is allegedly optional, but I rather doubt that tipping is so terribly uncommon among the locals, judging by what I see on those restaurant checks.

Edited to add: The checks presented to me usually (perhaps always) noted that the service charge was optional. I'm not good at looking for that information on menus (I'm too focused on selecting the food I want), so I really appreciate having it included on the check.

London is not England, anymore than New York is the USA.

"In my experience over two recent trips to London, most of the restaurants present a check with a 10% or 12.5% service charge included. It is allegedly optional..."

It might be optional or it might not. The menu will tell you. If it's optional then you just tell them to remove it.

pooling of tips is pretty common here in the US.

A difference you need to take into account is that in many restaurants, certainly in Britain, waiting on a particular table is not exclusively allocated to a single member of staff. Anyone may take your order, serve your food, or clear your plate. Tips are therefore shared amongst all staff.

Pooling occurs in US restaurants as well. James, whatever you do in the US when pooling is in place, just do it in England as well.

My British son in law has been retraining me regarding tipping in the UK. Anytime I hesitate, he says 'no tip'. It's working. Personally, I'm loving not having to leave a tip. I will tip if I need help as the meaning of TIP is 'to insure promptness' so if I tip, it is ahead of time as I often do here in the states (in the states red caps, maids, etc. receive their TIP ahead of time). Or if something or service was exceptional, otherwise I might round up. In a restaurant, I wouldn't care who received the tip as that is up to the business.

I read the story, and I know that you have posted often your opinion regarding tipping. Are you presenting this as a warning to Americans about tipping in Europe, or because you see it a justification of not tipping when you are in the US?

The issue in this article is not tip pooling, which is common in the US, (a portion of your tips might go to the bussers for example) but taking a percentage of the tips (3% or so) as an "administrative" fee, often to cover the credit card fee. That is illegal in the US. It's also illegal for a manager to keep a portion of the tips. So, a tip in the US might go to the "team" in a proportional amount, but not to the company.

As tipping is completely optional in the US you are free to tip or not. I would just advise you to not return to the same restaurant, because they'll remember you, and not for good reasons.

Because tipping is customary in the United States, Americans traveling in Europe just want to make sure that they're not unintentionally depriving someone of their livelihood. That's the root of our concern. I don't think that concern is a bad thing.

Jodi—I believe it was JC who left a $10 tip on a large check and then self-justified it, despite cultural standards to the contrary.

As for myself, I dislike dining out in the States and avoid it because I don’t like being served by someone who begs for a living, which is what working for tips is. On the other hand, restaurants that have tried eliminating tipping have had difficulty hiring waitstaff, as these servers see their hourly take go down. It’s a sick system.

Edit to respond to Tim: poor wording “forced” to beg, it should be. Yes, I avoid Walmart. Yes, I’m in favor of a living wage for all.

Jodi—I believe it was JC who left a $10 tip on a large check and then self-justified it, despite cultural standards to the contrary.

Yes it was me. However I also left a 33% tip at the local Mexican place where the service was much better than the more expensive restaurant which simply demonstrates how skewed the concept of a percentage based system is.

Bets, are you suggesting that restaurant workers voluntarily take poor-paying jobs when something better is available to them? I hope you also boycott Walmart, which "depends" on Medicaid to provide healthcare and foodstamps to feed many of their employees. Foodservice is a massive source of jobs in the U.S. That's why minium wage laws are so important, to regulate big employers.

Since you're posting on a travel board, how do you feel about the campaign to require a living wage for all workers at airports?

My daughter worked for several years as a waitress and she never would have taken a $15-$20 per hour job instead of her waitress job. She made far more than that.

Tim:

I don't think that's what Bets is saying at all. I think that she is just pointing out that the "wages" that are paid to tipped employees mean that it puts the servers in a subservient position that she finds demeaning. But I could be wrong.

Generally speaking, I think having to depend on tips sucks. Depending on the establishment where you work, you can do really well, or not so much. It also can create tension in the workplace between BOH & FOH employees. However, changing the system will be tough, and attempts to this point have been mixed. Even the most successful restaurants have a profit margin of only about 5%, so it's not easy for employers to switch. This means that the current system is a way to place the onus on the employee to hustle a living wage. As customers, we also bear some responsibility as we are resistant to (gasp!) paying the actual price to support the increase in that wage. It's a very slow change. I could go on and on about the variations of minimum wage between tipped and non-tipped employees, and the variations from state to state or city. (Can you tell I once worked in the industry?)

Sorry for going on about this, but until the US system changes, I'll keep tipping well here, while enjoying the benefit of not tipping in Europe, and enjoying my leisurely dinner.

Many thanks for your responses to my post thus far. Click this link to see the minimum wages that must be paid (hourly) by law in the UK:>https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

Healthcare for all UK citizens is free - apart from dental treatment. If Brits need to see the doctor, they just phone up the receptionist and book an appointment. The doctor will visit the house if need be. UK citizens can also walk into the Accident & Emergency department of a hospital and be seen - eventually.

Jodi pointed out that things are complicated (or can be) in the US with tipping/pay/wages by region/state/county and that is all true. It is also correct that it is a system that is slowly changing and where debate is raging, which is good.

For those who are hesitant to dine out, and the PNW has some seriously delicious food, we need your currency in our restaurants and small communities.

It is true that servers, by and large make very good wages. We have family who owns a lovely little organic boutique woodfired restaurant and they are always wrestling with how to pay their amazing chef a living wage while the servers make a minimum $25 an hour and often closer to $50-$60 an hour, especially on weekends.

Our US system does need an overhaul to compensate adequately the chefs and other staff, but please don't hesitate to support our food industry, especially where organic and local is being served.

It is true that servers, by and large make very good wages. We have family who owns a lovely little organic boutique woodfired restaurant and they are always wrestling with how to pay their amazing chef a living wage while the servers make a minimum $25 an hour and often closer to $50-$60 an hour, especially on weekends.

This is what I don't understand. Eating out in the US is on a par with eating out in the UK pricewise and similar to France and other Northern European countries. The cost of ingredients is pretty similar, fruit and veg is more expensive in the US but meat (with the exception of free range or organic) is cheaper yet restaurants in Europe manage to pay their staff a fair wage plus paid leave, maternity/paternity pay, pension and so on and manage to make a profit ( I know a number of people in the restaurant trade and I can assure you they're not struggling to make ends meet ) so I'm curious as to why many people claim that American restaurateurs would struggle financially if they started to pay their staff a fair wage.

My suggestion to your family who are wrestling over paying their amazing chef a living wage is to take a percentage of the tips from the serving staff and give it to him, after all he's the one making the fantastic food which is bringing in the customers. No-one goes to a restaurant solely because they like the wait staff, the food is the primary reason, his food is the reason the staff are able to make close to $50 - $60 an hour.

No way, Kim. I’ll get my food from my farmer’s mkt and local co-op, but there’s no way I’m supporting such an out-of-wack system. On top of it, our US waitstaff is poorly trained—watch hotel/restaurant school-trained Europeans work a room and compare it to our inefficient on-the-fly people— then ours are sometimes obsequious, sometimes pushy, while the back of the house is working in the heat and chaos of the range and dishwasher. The last straw is the “suggested tips” at the bottom of the bill.

Edit: ops, I need to calm down—yes, how can we get this mess sorted out?

To JC: They don't have the margins in profit (truly) to pay the chef tons more. He is making a living wage, but it is tough that the servers still make more than the chef, and the owners are chagrined about this situation. As for the owners, they are not really drawing any extra profit, but what they live on, and they live very very simply.

As for taking chef's wages from the servers tips: my understanding is that that is against the law where we live and they would have a staff mutiny on their hands. We have had this conversation many times. They have tried and it is somewhat unclear if it's legal, but we have some PNW pending court cases that will be weigh in on this soon in our region.

Bets, I totally agree about farmers markets and all the like. That said, small town business is dying in America. This restaurant is not in an urban area, but local and regional in a town of about 2,000 in wine country. They are serving local farmers' products that are totally organic - if they go under due to lack of support about 10 farms will also suffer.

As for serving staff, I don't see that kind of system changing anytime soon unless you are spending $50 per plate which most Americans cannot afford, certainly not families.

As for price and quality in Europe, we were recently in Ireland I will say that we were shocked at the reasonable cost of very high quality food compared to the same kind of produce/meat in the PNW. Prices are definitely higher for us in the PNW with incredibly fertile land. I was convinced that our primary cost of the trip would be for food, but it wasn't. Food is cheap in America if from the large subsidized farms, but if you want local you are definitely going to pay a premium. It's why we grow a bunch of our own food and buy direct from small farms and butchers vs. the grocery store because organic and local will never be cheaper in our supermarkets than direct from the source and Europe appears cheaper to me.

To JC: They don't have the margins in profit (truly) to pay the chef tons more. He is making a living wage, but it is tough that the servers still make more than the chef, and the owners are chagrined about this situation. As for the owners, they are not really drawing any extra profit, but what they live on, and they live very very simply.

Then that is a real shame and it serves to highlight just how screwed up the system is.