Starting to build itinerary

Is your baby seeking to become the first infant contestant on The Amazing Race: UK? If not, in all seriousness, I’d strongly suggest cutting down this itinerary. Way too much moving around and driving. You’ll be facing a mutiny midway through.

If you’re flying from North America, I’d never suggest driving in day one.

I’d gut at least half of this plan, perhaps use London as a base and do a couple of the near London sights as day trips.

I’d skip the Cotswolds and North Wales in winter.

It feels like too many short stops for me, too. Weather aside (and it certainly matters a lot to me), I don't think two days for the Cotswolds, Stratford-upon-Avon and Bath allows enough time.

The advantage of tilting more toward day-trips from London is that some can be last-minute decisions, based on whether the weather is suggesting you'd prefer to be indoors.

If you get to Canterbury, I can recommend the city walking tour offered by the tourist office, though I don't know how often it will run in the winter. The stained-glass museum in the cathedral was interesting, because the glass was at eye-level and easier to appreciate.

London's average high temperature is 47 degrees F. in December and average lows are 36 degrees F. Average hours of sun for the month are only 52 hours, and precipitation is experienced 10 days.
Expect rather dismal weather through the Christmas holidays.

On the rental car. Is that one large van for all 7 of you ( plus luggage) or 2 cars? Have you worked out that logistical issue?

The other thing to keep in mind is at that time of year, is the shortest daylight hours of the year. (less than 8 hours of daylight)

Day 15 head to Gatwick, stopping at Stonehenge on the way

How late in the day is your flight, that you plan this stop on the way?

Thank you for the concern for the little one. I’m not concerned about a mutiny though. :)
-As for the drive on day 1, Brighton is about 30 minutes out, doesn’t seem too difficult? We’ve visited other countries with left hand driving and drove the entire time with no issues.
-Using London as a base was a thought but we would really like to get out of the city while visiting.
-We have considered the weather, shorter days and holiday closures. Thus is the price for off season travel.
-Thank you for the recommend for the walking tour in Canterbury. I will see if the group is amenable to postponing North Wales. I will look into Chester, thank you for the suggestion.
-As for the cold, our last visit to NYC had highs of 30ish degrees and we managed quite well. We have also vacationed in Lake Tahoe during a record setting snow storm and again we were fine.
- We will have 2 rental cars at least. There will be 4 adults who are all capable of driving.
-Our departing flight is later in the day but Stonehenge might be skipped or moved to another day, it was just a thought.
Just to elaborate a bit more. We are a flexible group that have done a fair amount of traveling and aren’t going into this blind. We are enthusiastic and really looking forward to this trip. Also, our group size allows us to take littles back for naps or to split up as needed to match energy and interests. I mostly posted in hopes of getting recommendations for accommodations and opinions on the Pimlico area of London. But I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to respond and give input.

I will just point out that both Lake Tahoe and New York (the city and the state) have fleets of snowplows and supplies of de-icer to keep the roads clear. In Great Britain this is not necessarily the case -- it's more like what happens when Alabama gets a significant snow or ice event.

Of course the chance of a snow or ice storm is small, but I urge you to be flexible and keep an eye on the weather, especially toward the end of your trip when you need to get to Gatwick by a certain time.

I’ll only address the beginning of the trip. Driving to Brighton upon arrival shouldn’t be a problem since it’s, as you said, only about a 30 miles drive. We spent a couple hours in Battle. Seeing the battlefield doesn’t take a terribly long time. Rye is very small and doesn’t take long to see. If I had to choose a place to skip, then it would be Rye. Dover on the other hand could take some time depending on what you plan to do. The castle is worth 1-2 hours, the tunnels about the same, and then there are the walking paths along the top of the cliffs. Parking for those is a short distance from the castle and tunnels. Canterbury is worth a full day. We took its walking tour too and found it very informative. On the same day we went to Leeds castle, we also stopped by the nearby Aylesford Priory. Leeds castle will take a few hours to adequately see. From the parking lot, it is a fair distance to the castle. When we were there there was no shuttle running from the parking lot to the castle. If you had the time after seeing the castle, and had before you had to return the car, we enjoyed Ightam Mote in Sevenoaks, about halfway between Leeds castle and the airport. We probably spent between 1 and 2 hours there.

You need to reduce the amount of moving on that you are planning if you want to enjoy this trip, particularly if travelling with children and at this time of year.

I would drop the Cotswolds at that time of year. North Wales could also be grim, depending on the weather.

Gatwick to Brighton can’t be done in 30 minutes - it’s nearer an hour, particularly if you struggling with jet lag. Brighton isn’t en route to your next destination, so you may want to reconsider this base, particularly as you are only there for one night.

Day 2 is at least 4 hours of driving plus you are hoping to stop in 3 places. There isn’t much to Battle other than the Abbey and parking can be tricky, so depending on your interests, I would drop this. Rye is worth a couple of hours of your time and more if you also want to walk around Rye Harbour. Dover has the Castle, tunnels plus the National Trust for the lighthouse, cliff walks and the underground shelter and you could easily spend 6 hours here.

Why drive all the way back to Gatwick (c 1.5 hours or 2 hours if you hit rush hour) to then catch a train into London? Look into returning the car at Ashford or Maidstone and catching a train from there.

You are short changing London.

London to York will take the best part of 4 hours door to door, so that doesn’t give you much time to look round. I would add another night here. The National Rail Museum is worth spending half a day here.

Emma’s suggestion of Chester is a good one. Driving York to Liverpool city centre will take more than 2.5 hours plus time to pick up the rental car. I have never driven in Liverpool without getting delayed in heavy traffic, which could add significantly to your journey time.

As I have already said, consider dropping north Wales and the Cotswolds. You could stay in Stratford upon Avon en route back to Gatwick if it’s a must, albeit I think it’s a disappointing, overly touristy (in a tacky way) town.

What time is your outbound flight? You will need to be at Gatwick 3 hours before departure plus time to return the hire car, so you may not have time to visit much this day.

Bath is too far off route and you don’t have time to cover it.

A couple of comments.

I grew up in the Cotswolds, the best bit, the Gloucestershire bit, and I love walking the villages and towns, as well as the fields between. But I never ever go there in mid-winter. Well, tell a lie - when my parents lived near Stow on the Wold and we visited them for Christmas I had to - but never voluntarily. Frosty roads that aren't gritted and narrow lanes and poor visibility don't work well together. And that's what you'll likely have.

Are you bringing the car-cot for the baby, and is the other family bringing the car-seat for the young child? Or renting or buying them here? They are required by law, as is the position in the car for both. They will need to be ISO-Fix compatible or they won't mount.

Don't take the comments of the others about roads, England, and snow lightly, nor let your winter driving elsewhere cloud your preparations. When I was a kid, back when we still used quill pens on parchment, England's winter weather in the south of England was extremely tame. Snow was very rare, storms inland were rare, and there was a little money around for government to spend. It isn't the same now. Global warming and climate change has meant we get very frequent major storms in some winters now (the first deady named one is just leaving today) which bring high winds and often snow for which this country simply isn't prepared. Add to that the fact that we have a government with no money - years and years of austerity government now (except for spending to try to force Brexit through) means they give very little money to the local Councils who are responsible for keeping the roads clear, free of potholes and safe. My Council has announced that they will not be gritting or ploughing any roads this winter, and it isn't the only one. This isn't to alarm you - this is simply to tell the truth of the matter. If you have all sunshine and blue skies you'll have no trouble. But if a storm should arrive, you will need a plan-B.

-Emma, thank you for the information on Pimlico. Choosing an area to stay in has proven to be an interesting task.
-Jaimeelsabio, thank you for the input and suggestions.
-Jennifer, do you have another suggestion for our base instead of Brighton? It seemed to be the closest of interest place to go once we land. We had considered staying in Rye, but the drive time was an hour and a half from the airport according to Google Maps. Your idea to just take the train from Maidstone into London is fantastic! Much easier.

-Nigel thank you for the heads up on the snow conditions. Perhaps we will look into only using trains to travel. We planned to rent a car-cot to insure that it meets the guidelines of the area.

We realize that our itinerary wasn’t perfect, hence the posting on a forum to be critiqued. There seems to be a consensus to pass on several things, is there anything that we shouldn’t skip? Or suggestions as to a good base to do day trips out of that isn't London?

As others have noted jammed pack itinerary that will have you dashing to and from and not enjoying all the sights you’ve listed. One nights stays unless on a business trip short change a traveler.

My first query is what are the must sees for your intrepid group? It’s grand you’ve traveled together before and will be prepared for the weather but I’d like to understand why this particular itinerary?

Travel train in throughout the UK is far better than the US. FAR better! It’s good you are now looking into considering them as a mode of transport for some of your travel. Remember booking in advance can help save you money.

If I were you I’d generate a must see, can’t miss list and share here. That way we can suggest best way to see such sights, transport ideas, etc.

Hi Claudia, thank you for replying. Our must sees are flexible, we know that we will visit again. However, a hopeful list would include: York, Bath, Canterbury, a castle or two and my husband would like to go into Wales. London sights include British Museum, Tower of London, seeing a play, walking a bridge, Greenwich and well to be honest the London list isn't fully fleshed out. We would also like to see some of the Cotswolds. Sleeping in interesting spots would be lovely. It looks like Leeds Castle allows for this. I would like to be in London during New Year's simply because it seems that more places will open.

I've done two UK family trips (2 adults, 1 elementary age kid) in the past two years, and have done several other UK trips with just my husband. One thing I still fail to fully appreciate until I'm there and in the thick of it is just how bad I am at estimating driving times and how exhausting driving is. Being alert to stay in a narrow lane on roads that aren't as forgiving as US roads takes a lot of concentration. I really think you're aiming for too much travel time between points, especially with an infant in tow, and it's really nice to have a couple of home bases as opposed to checking in and out daily for part of the trip.

Suggestion for Day 2- how about booking two nights to sleep in the same place- Leeds Castle, don't sleep in Canterbury on Day 2. It looks like a fairly reasonable drive from Leeds to Canterbury, so you can drive over to Canterbury in the AM on Day 3, tour it, drive back to Leeds Castle in the afternoon with maybe a couple of hours of daylight to spare for the castle.

York is really nice and has plenty of fun that should scale for your age ranges, I'd recommend skipping Liverpool and Wales and spending those nights in York. There's enough to do in York to occupy two or three days, and there's a day trip minibus company that runs a few trips to the Yorkshire countryside from York- consider taking a day trip where someone else drives, we did a BOB tour that went to Whitby, it was awesome, and it was such a relief to have a break from driving ourselves. My husband went to Liverpool to see a soccer game on one of our trips, and he reported back that it was pretty grim (sorry, Liverpudlians) and would not have been worth it for my son and I to have gone with him (while he was there I took my kid to a monkey preserve in Trentham and then to Mary Arden's Farm, both total delights).

As others have said, Cotswolds in the winter won't be as pretty as other times of year, but it's not a bad base if you want to see Bath and Stratford. Consider how much you really want to see Bath- I've been twice and both times found it a bit underwhelming, the Roman Baths are really interesting, but the rest of the city is basically a shopping district, and I've found it disappointing compared to how annoying the drive is to get into the city. If I were going to do your trip, I'd skip Bath in favor of Warwick Castle (assuming the castle is open in the winter) or Oxford (if weather is yucky the museums will fill up a day and should keep kids & adults interested). I would think seriously about staying closer to Oxford instead of staying in the Cotswolds- it will be easier to get to if you drive from York (not much easier if you're driving from Wales), and it will be an easier drive to Gatwick on your last day.

Cotswolds place to stay recommendation: The Castle at Edgehill is just on the very northern tip of the Cotswolds, close to Stratford, close to the highway for getting back to the airport (though still a bit more of a drive than I'd like on a fly-out day), and it's a real castle, affordable, and super comfy. It was one of the best places we stayed on all of our UK visits. The rural roads around it run the risk of being treacherous in the winter, though.

I think a stop at Stonehenge on the day you're flying out, especially if you're staying in the Cotswolds, is too ambitious, unless you're going to get up super early and your flight isn't until night time. I loved Stonehenge and thought it was worth a visit, but I'd recommend saving that for another trip- our last trip this summer we stayed in Salisbury and found tons to do just in the Wiltshire/Dorset area.

I suggest avoiding driving around the London and SE England area. Traffic is horrific. Visit Cambridge on a day trip from London. We loved Chipping Campden (the Volunteer Inn) as a base for Stratford Upon Avon, Oxford, Blenheim Palace and the Cotswolds. It is a bit far to use for Bath. Suggest staying in Bath.

I can see why you are having a hard time coming up with an itinerary because your hopeful spots are really spread out: : York, Bath, Canterbury, a castle or two and husband would like to go into Wales, Cotswolds, and London in the middle for NYE. Your itinerary is logical for your wish list, but I don't think it will be very satisfying. You are covering a lot of ground in many directions. I know it's hard to satisfy 4 adults plus children. Some suggestions:

• You need need more time in York. It will take you half a day to get to York, get to your hotel and drop off your things. That leaves half a day. Most people would find that very short.
• I think Chester as a hub is a great idea.
• Driving from York to Liverpool or Chester or Northern Wales would be a slog. Could you take the train to get west and then rent a car? Taking the train to York is a great idea. Icky drive from London to York.
• Castles - do you mean ruined or fixed up? Northern Wales has superb Edward I castles. We visited 4. They are very similar. You'll be outdoors, so be prepared for weather. Conwy is the most convenient to Chester. There are many, many other castles in England. Check out the English Heritage website. English Heritage will tell you which sites have children's facilities and possibly children's programs. We visited many English Heritage sites.
• I'm not a big fan of Bath (been there several times) but I love the Roman Baths. Count on a couple of hours.
• Canterbury makes a great day trip form London. It was kind of dead at night. We were there in the summer. I'm afraid it might be really dead on winter evenings. Nice cathedral. There are other nice cathedrals - my favorites are Durham, Winchester, Salisbury and Wells. Durham is easily reached from York. Wells is easily reached from Bath. Salisbury and Winchester are close to each other and Salisbury combines with Stonehenge.
• Dover Castle is good for kids. Another English Heritage site. You'll be outside some, but there is a fair amount inside or underground.
• It doesn't sound like you're that crazy about Brighton. Perhaps you could just go to London, walk around if you have the energy. Then, get a train to Canterbury. See Canterbury and then get a car.
• Greenwich is a very interesting day.

Not sure this helps you much. I've never been to Leeds Castle or Chester. I've been to England a number of times and still have missed many things. I think you should assume you'll come back and then pick your destinations.