Review My Trip!

I would spend 2 nights in Cardiff so you can take the bus to St. Fagan's outdoor Museum of Welsh Life. I don't understand why you aren't doing Salisbury and Cotswolds when you're in the Bath area.

It is a giant circle. I want to take the train back to London. It seemed like taking the train from Charlbury or Bath made more sense then Dartmoor. If you have a better suggestion let me know please.

On Day 14 you are not apparently returning the car (if thinking about train from Charlbury). It would make sense to return it at Oxford and train to London from there. Much less geographical sense to return it at Bath for return, except for avoiding a one way charge.

If you finished on Dartmoor at ** Tavistock** (as opposed to Travistock) you could return the car at Plymouth and train back from there. In fact if you finished at Dartmoor you could take the train from Bath to Plymouth, and car hire there, thus avoiding a one way hire charge of a hire from Bath.

I think Day 11 is very busy. The Lost Gardens of Heligan (not Hilgard) and the Eden Project (not Project Eden) in one day plus the drive to and from Tavistock. To many people one or the other (the Eden Project especially) would fill the day- it is a big place. I am not sure I would call them West Cornwall either- more East or Central Cornwall to me. West would be more Penzance/Truro way to me.

If you are starting in York maybe look at Open Jaw flights into Manchester and out of London- a much easier journey from Manchester to York than London to York, especially if there was a serious flight delay or re-timing.

If you do decide to finish at Stow-on-the Wold I wonder about actually driving back to Manchester and returning the car there, so RT air to Manchester.

From Conwy, if I remember rightly, the car would be from Enterprise at Llandudno Junction.

Essentially my thought is York- Conwy- Cardiff- Bath- Stow (or Stow-Bath)- Dartmoor/Cornwall- London

That is a pretty intensive itinerary and isn’t giving you a lot of time to see the different places on the list. don't underestimate time taken to travel between places. It will take a lot longer than you might expect.

Day 5 ‘back of van’? where? Be aware you can’t just parkup in a layby overnight and go to sleep.

Day 11 - a long day. Driving to Lost Gardens of Heligan/Eden Project and back to Tavistock is around 100 miles. You need to allow AT LEAST 3 hours for this. Road are not very wide, wind about at lot and are slow. Don’t forget to add on time to park up, get to the gardens and back to the car and out on the road again. This can easily add another 15 minutes to a stop.

There’s ,lots to see in both and they both recommend 3-4 hours for a visit. Add in time for lunch and this is going to be a very long day...

Day 12 again this is a long drive . You are looking at 210 miles and need to allow at least five hours PLUS time for stops. Are you intending to have a break in Salisbury and a quick look round? If so this is going to take 1-2 hours. Stonehenge - their website recommends allowing 2.5 hours for a visit.

I think there is just too much in this itinerary and it does need to be a bit streamlined so that you have time to really enjoy the places you visit rather than rushing around.

Picking up and dropping off hire cars takes a lot of time, so I’d either hire one for the whole trip or just once during the trip and take trains the rest of the time. Otherwise you are wasting holiday time waiting around in car rental offices which is not what you want to be doing.

To expand in the suggestion of arriving Manchester Airport, if you aren't interested in touching London, consider not bothering with its airports either as they are increasing your surface travel & time wasted for little benefit. Fly back from a regional airport as well - Bristol or Exeter might suit where you want to visit with a juggle. Flying via a non British gateway is something many locals do who live a way from London - for this Dublin might be the most convenient.

Chiming in on what Wasleys mentioned about Stonehenge, you might wonder why 2.5 hours is recommended. There's a sizeable visitor centre at the entry with excellent exhibits indoors and outdoors, which really help you understand what is known about the Stonehenge site, the people who built it and used it, etc. The stones are about 1/4 mile from there, and you can walk or take the free shuttle bus. You can also get off the bus about halfway and walk the grounds and fields nearer to the stones.

I often see people express disappointment that you can't go right up to the stones unless you book (and pay for) an Inner Circle visit with English Heritage. Having done both, I'll say the standard daytime visit is better in some ways. The Inner Circle time slots are very early morning and very late afternoon/evening, when the visitor centre is closed. Ditto for the very nice cafeteria and the large book/gift shop. If you do the Inner Circle, you may get a more mystical or intimate feeling about the stones, but be aware you are still strictly forbidden to touch the stones in any way.

I think this is much to tight a schedule. You will have delays and setbacks. Missed trains, train strikes, Car rentals that are out of cars, bad weather, etc. As someone currently traveling around England and Wales I have experienced set backs and delays that would throw a wrench into tight schedules like yours. In Conwy, North Wales, it poured rain all day (I mean really poured, not just drizzle) and I ended up just sitting in the hotel drinking coffee. Down the road in other towns the weather was the same. So it was either move on and not see things or delay and adjust schedule. Also, the car rental in the nearest town was out of cars that day, so again, another delay. In Cornwall there was road construction for a long way, so big diversions, and I had to spend a lot more time driving to get out there than I anticipated.
You can of course have a really tight schedule if you want, but be prepared to give things up when the inevitable delays occur.

@Greg thank you for that insight. I had not considered that the car rental place could be out of cars. Does that happen a lot if you prepay for your rental? I have not rented a car before. I took a road trip down the Pacific Coast and we were hit with torrential rains on our first day in the Red Woods. Because my schedule was so tight my options were skip that park or go in the rain. I packed rain gear, but even still I was drenched the bone. It was still very impressive. But you are right, I need back up plans if something doesn't work out right.

To everyone, thank you so much for the feedback. I looked into flying to into Manchester or another area and could not find a direct flight. I was having to change plans in Amsterdam or Copenhagen and fly KML. Instead of a 9 hour flight it was 15 hours and it just stressed me out. Plus the train sounds fun. I cut Eden Project and Stonehenge from my list. I am now going :

• York, two nights
• Conwy to Cardiff road trip, five nights
• Cotswolds, two nights
• Bath, two nights
• Dartmoor, Lost Gardens of Heligran, train from Plymouth to London. three nights

I am giving myself a whole day to drive from Bath to Plymouth /Tavistock. Does this sound like an improvement? If not, what do you suggest I cut?

I have not decided if I want to stay in Plymouth or Tavistock, I wonder if Plymouth is any rougher than say Portland or Seattle? It sounds kind of relaxing near the park.

I feel good about the Wales roadtrip. I am use to roadtriping, my husband loves driving.

Hi Kitty, I am actually going to be in Cornwall and Devon in late March of next year. I was also trying to decide between staying in Tavistock and Plymouth and wound up going with Plymouth. One reason was for convenience. I will be dropping off a rental car in Plymouth and taking the train from there to Liverpool. It sounds like you are also taking the train from there, so it is convenient to be close to the train station.

But another reason was because I like the idea of staying someplace right by the sea. The hotel I booked (the Grosvenor Hotel, based on a recommendation from a forum member), is just a block or two away from the harbor and is very reasonably priced. I love the idea of being able to walk down to the harbor and look at the sea. That said, if that doesn’t matter to you, I have read here that Tavistock is a very fun and quaint town. So I don’t think you could go wrong by choosing either of them.

ETA: One thing to make sure of: when you book your hotel, make sure there is parking available nearby. Some hotels offer free parking; others have car parks nearby that may charge a fee, but it's usually nominal. However, you don't want to have to walk a mile or so from the car to the hotel and back.

Bear in mind that, whilst flying into Manchester will probably mean a connection and a longer flight, it will significantly reduce the time on the ground to get to York. Flying into LHR or LGW means taking transport into central London before picking up the train to York so it will take several hours and requires you going into a city you don't want to go to. Flying into MAN means you can get a direct train from the airport to York.

I can see flights from both Seattle and Vancouver with IcelandAir taking around 12 hours in total with one easy change.

That's a much more realistic itinerary. There was a long thread on here earlier in the year (I have it book marked, but can't link it, as I am mobile) about the reality of Seattle life. If that thread is even half way right, then I can honestly say there is no city in the UK that comes half way close to that. And I believe a number of other US cities, including some say Portland, OR, have some societal issues more than any other UK city.
So no need to worry on that score.

Everything is relative. In my little town of 25000 population there are parts I wouldn't voluntarily go to on a weekend evening. But it's just (or mainly) drunken misbehaviour, with (and nobody talks openly about it) drug dealing. I'm not going to come to any harm- knifed or shot. More I can avoid it, and like tonight, will be too tired to cope with it.

Hi, I’ll attach our recent 2-week trip to England & Wales for an anniversary trip, too, in case it helps you with activity or lodging ideas. Have a great time! I LOVED Bodnant Gardens in Wales!

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/june-2023-england-wales-trip-report