Rental car Tour of England and Wales

Just a few random personal observations.

4) Personally I'd limit Stratford-upon-Avon touring to one day. I found the atmosphere disappointingly crowded and commercial. The "Pen and Parchment" pub right near the tourist office, HOHO bus, and multi-level parking garage was cute, but food overrated (also note you have to go up to the bar to order -- we sat there for quite awhile before figuring this out). If you are real Shakespeare lovers then naturally you'll want to be able to say you've been there.

6) Durham is a real gem.

7) Hadrian's Wall is awesome, IMO. Allow time to really savor it.

I didn't care for Keswick -- too touristy. Note that the public restrooms aren't in the tourist info office, they're fairly hidden in a building at the public parking lot. Penrith, at eastern edge of Lake District, is right on the motorway and has its charms in addition to being a real town. In Penrith I can recommend Narrowbar cafe for lunch or snack. Penrith tourist office also very helpful.

Personally I wouldn't drive all the way from Keswick to Winchester in one day, but if you stayed in Penrith you'd be about an hour closer (sorry, I realize I'm really harping on Penrith).

Happy memories of touring Arundel Castle; it is worth a visit.

Instead of Southampton, would you consider Poole (just west of Bournemouth)? It gives flavor of Dorset coast and is a lot prettier.

" We plan to spend three nights in Bath, with one day driving to Glastonbery and Wells another visiting Cardiff "

Here's what you wrote, but I HOPE you meant you would spend one of your full days in Bath? I unashamedly love Bath and find lots to do there! When you are in Wells, take one of the docent tours of the Cathedral. If you have time also tour the Bishop's Palace. I've never had time (been on tours both times) to do that an am sorry!

I enjoyed walking from Keswick up to Castlerigg stone circle altho I went in the Fall of 2015 before they had a flood that washed out some stuff. You'll have a car so you can drive. Surprisingly the Cumberland Pencil Museum is pretty interesting. I see from their website they are closed, still recovering from the flood, perhaps. If it is open and if ANYONE in your family is an artist or wishes they were, give a little thought to buying Derwent Color Pencils there. I wish I had known how comprehensive their shop was before I went. I didn't allow enough time and then couldn't make decisions, lol. They have the biggest stock of artist grade pencils I've ever seen.

I am not an expert but just posted on this thread https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/wales/pembrokeshire-wales some things I enjoyed in the Pembrokeshire/Carmarthenshire area. Another thing I enjoyed was seeing the Roman ruins at Caerleon. The baths there are not as extensive as in Bath but they have a very nice Roman amphitheater, fortress walls and barracks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caerleon_Roman_Fortress_and_Baths

Haven't been to your ancestral spot.

PS I realize I have not actually ~answered~ any of your questions! Sorry for my random thoughts!

Thanks for both responses. I like to plan, but I know that the worst thing that I can do is try to do too much. I have tried to limit driving to an average of 80 miles a day of driving.

Yes, we are staying in Bath for three nights and will do one full day in Bath. We are driving directly from Heathrow on the morning that we arrive. It is not a long distance, and I know that I can manage that and probably arrive in Bath by early to mid-afternoon.

Regarding the Lake District, I have two other persons here on this forum that recommend Keswick, but I will take a look at Penrith.

Thanks Again

We liked Keswick, how crowded it will be may depend on time of year. Also I don't know how much damage they still have from the flooding last spring. Castlerigg Stone Circle is great. Penrith is closer to the motorway but farther from the lakes and fells you've presumably come to see.

Keswick to Winchester will be a very long day's drive, but doable if you start early and keep moving. If you want two shorter days, consider stopping for the night in or around Chester, or Birmingham, or Stratford (where you've already been, but maybe you can jigger the itinerary). Personally I wouldn't spend as much time in Stratford, or the Cotswolds, as you plan.

York to Durham doesn't take very long, but it depends on when you get back from Whitby, if you plan to do it the same day.

Can't help you re South Wales, but hope the rest helps.

To follow on the previous poster's comment about your time in Bath, yes, that city has lots to see.

Your plan to visit Glastonbury and Wells in a one-day trip makes sense. You probably know about walking up Glastonbury Tor. Near Glastonbury is Somerset Rural Life Museum http://www.swheritage.org.uk/rural-life-museum

Did you say which dates you're planning to be there? Beware Glastonbury Festival, which is not in the town itself but which draws massive crowds. I believe it is announced for 21st-25th June, 2017.

Thanks again for more information.

We will be doing this tour next October. Also, we leave on the Celebrity Eclipse 29 October from Southampton to return to the US.

I have just checked the AA route planner, and they suggest just over 5 hours for the 318 miles from Keswick to Winchester, which seems about right to me, although you will want to include a stop or two en route. I think the journey you plan in Pembrokeshire looks more time consuming, and would suggest a stop in the Brecon Beacons area. That part of the country is very scenic, but the roads are slow.

In 1969 or thereabouts, my then boss climed Helvellyn with his young family in the morning and then drove back to Bournemouth, all in a day. This was a time before there were many motorways.

I think you are trying to do too much. I would consider going from Llanddewi Brefi northwards through the most scenic areas of Wales via Dolgellau to Snowdonia (NW Wales) for maybe 3 nights before heading east back to England. Not sure if Nottingham is worth a visit. It is a long way from Keswick to Winchester. Consider taking the train from Penrith to Winchester and not bothering with Arundel.
(Train fares are cheaper if booked about 11 weeks out - www.nationalrail.co.uk)

Caerleon has been mentioned above. It is a bit awkward to reach from the M4 at Newport. I think you don't have the time for it.

For Cardiff - see my response here to an earlier query:>https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/wales/3-days-in-cardiff

For SW Wales, see my response here:>https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/wales/pembrokeshire-wales

Thanks for the good information. Regarding continuing on to Northern Wales, we visited Northern Wales in 2013, which was awesome, but we want to focus on places we haven't been to before.

OK - so you have done N Wales. You will probably use the M4 / A48 route from Cardiff to Pembrokeshire.

When you have seen Llanddewi Brefi, go back to Lampeter and take the A482 going SE to reach Llandovery. Then follow A40 to Brecon. Continue SE from Brecon on A40 (great scenery) via Crickhowell to Abergavenny. Then the A40 becomes a fast dual highway which will get you to Raglan - take sharp turn left to see the Castle (ruin).

From Raglan Castle - turn left and follow signs for Monmouth (A40). Stay on A40 until it becomes the M50 at Ross. Leave M50 at Junction 1 for Tewkesbury (worth a look). A46 going east and B4077 will get you to the best bits of The Cotswolds with Stanway and Stanton being the first places worth a look.

It depends how far you are driving but you might wish to have an overnight stay in the Brecon area.
http://www.breconbeacons.org
http://cadw.gov.wales/daysout/raglancastle/?lang=en

The Roman Gold Mines are just off your route - about 30 minutes SE of Lampeter. If short on time - don’t bother.https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/dolaucothi-gold-mines
http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp

James,
Many thanks, you always provide wonderful details that have helped me plan this trip.
I have tentatively mapped out our 28 day drive tour, so if we planned to stay another night in the Brecon area, I could eliminate the one overnight in Nottingham, which many say there is little to see in that area. Still, we have an ancestor buried just south of Nottingham that I wanted to see. I suppose we could just stop and see that. However, we had planned to depart Chipping Campden, then visit Warwick Castle and plan on going directly to York instead of stopping in Nottingham.

Also, we could cut our Lake District time from three to two days, but most say we should do three days there.

After digesting your suggestions and the suggestions of others, as well as my own research, clearly Wales does merit substantial time.

Raglan Castle is interesting, but personally I prefer Goodrich Castle, which is a bit farther off the A40 to the east of Monmouth near Symonds Yat. Goodrich sits high on a headland overlooking the River Wye, a stunning location.

Chepstow Castle is different again, and equally worth visiting. In fact, the whole area is full of castles, some original, like Caerphilly, and some fake, like Castle Coch. There is just so much to see.

"I have just checked the AA route planner, and they suggest just over 5 hours for the 318 miles from Keswick to Winchester, which seems about right to me, although you will want to include a stop or two en route."

This is based on an average of 60 mph, with no traffic, no road work, no stops to eat or relieve yourself. I'm pretty sure that drive is going to take you quite a bit more than 5 hours so, yes, plan on all day to do the drive. Personally I would split that into 2 days for sure.