Rail transportation

This was my post but I am typing this in the hopes that maybe this will move it to the top of the list for a short time cause I am thinking maybe nobody saw it as I have no replies. I posted it yesterday afternoon but an error occurred and it didn’t post until today. RS helped get it posted. Thanks so much!

Any advice?

Hey. I'm a Londoner. I'll try to clear some stuff up for you!
Being around Victoria would be easier than Kings Cross for getting back to Gatwick Airport although the tube is easy to navigate so I'd choose the hotel that you prefer the look of. It'd be an earlyish start for an 11am flight (I'd set off around 6am personally) but I wouldn't worry too much. Transport in London is pretty much 24/7. In terms of area, out of Kings Cross or Victoria, neither are exactly scenic. They're both big transport hubs but Victoria is closer to theatres and the West End if that helps.

Train tickets usually go on sale about 12 weeks in advance and you're strongly recommended to book as early as possible for the cheapest fares. You CAN just buy a ticket on the day. They will never turn passengers away but don't underestimate quite how expensive that ticket will be - and you might well be standing!

Don't pay Trainline fees. You don't need to. Use Trainline for schedules/prices and then book for free on any of the train operators sites. All mainline train operators will let you book regardless of whether you are using their particular service. Take a look at LNER's site for example.

York to London would terminate at King's Cross, yes. Easy tube ride to Victoria.

Impossible to say how long immigration will take. You might get a little Hitler on a powertrip - there are a few working for Borderforce! I would give it a safe two hours on the train ticket to make sure.

Anything else, just ask. Otherwise, enjoy your trip to the UK!

To your question, "Seems awfully chancy to get advanced, nonrefundable, unchangeable tickets for the first day from Gatwick to Canterbury because what if our plane arrives late or takes long time to get through customs?"

Yes, it does seem awfully chancy. If your flight lands on time, allowing 2 hours to get through passport control/immigration is probably reasonable, but you have no control over how many other flights may have passengers already in the queue ahead of you, much less if your flight is delayed. For that first train trip, I would either allow a wide window, like 8 hours, or else book a hotel in London for the first night and set off for Canterbury in the morning.

Is Canterbury an important place that you want to visit, or are you thinking of it just as a stop on the way to Dover? If the latter, why not stay the first night in London and then take the train to Dover?

I also question your overall plan to combine rental car and train trips. If I were planning this, I'd stay the first night in London near Gatwick, then pick up the rental car at Gatwick in the morning and make the "circle drive" around England, including driving back to Gatwick from York at the end. Of course it's your choice; it just seems unnecessarily complicated to me.

IT doesn’t seem like a good idea to spend that first night near Gatwick as I don’t know what we would do all day long out by Gatwick. We arrive at 7:50 am. I guess we could go in to London and spend the day and then come back to Gatwick but that seems like a lot of wasted time too. Plus most people above seem to be of the opinion that traffic might be bad getting out of Gatwick. I don’t want to cause my husband any unnecessary driving nervousness. Yes, we did want to go to Canterbury - to see the cathedral and we will take the train to Dover the next day to get our car cause that was the best price I could find when I booked it several months ago and there was no car rental available in Canterbury on the website I was using, which is where I would prefer to pick up the car. But it’s not a biggie. Dover and Canterbury are so close.

I’ve read more and used Trainline (to just look for ticket prices and schedules) and here’s what I want to ask:

1) seems like the best prices are with a “group save” since all four of us are traveling together all the time? Even better than friends and family,two together, seniors; and I don’t think you can combine group save with one of these other railcards, can you? I think we always have to travel on an off peak or super off peak train after 10 am (or 9:30 am I’ve seen both) to get this group save discount?

2). Is the price reflected on trainlines site for all four tickets or for just one person? I don’t want to find out by hitting the buy button. I think it must be for four people cause it shows four people but it also calls it a super off peak single. That makes it sounds like the price for each ticket. Price was $307.04 for super off peak from York to London Kings crossing on aug. 28th. And $165.40 for off peak from Gatwick to Canterbury on aug. 9th. Do those prices sound like for four people or one? Is that a good price or should I wait?

3). By buying a group save ticket for a specific off peak or super off peak train departure, am I under the correct belief that if we would miss that particular off peak or super off peak train, that we would be able to get on a later same type of off peak train as long as it’s on the same day without paying extra? If true that seems to me that’s the type of ticket I ought to buy because there looks like there are usually several later departure choices.

4). Im confused by someone’s stating in the forum that if you are traveling on an off peak train, there’s no advantage to buying the ticket in advance. Just buy them the day of travel. They will be the same price. Does that make sense? I would think they would charge a lot more for them last minute. I think we will always be traveling off peak. Thanks.

Trainline is a re-seller that adds a booking fee to the price - no need to use them.

Use https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ which will direct you to the train operator from where you buy tickets.

There is a ticket type called Advance – they are the cheapest, go on sale about 12 weeks before your travel date and you must travel on the booked train.

Off-peak, Super-off-peak and Peak are walk up tickets. You can buy them in advance but they are the same price on the day. You can travel on any train in either peak hours or off peak hours.

Advance tickets for 28 August are not on sale yet. But put in 31 July to get an idea of prices. For York to London you can get 4 tickets for £74. If 4 adults are always travelling together you will get Group Save prices so don’t overthink things by getting a railcard.

For Gatwick to Canterbury you can get 4 Off Peak tickets for £58.60 if you avoid going into London. Gatwick to Redhill, Redhill to Tonbridge, Tonbridge to Canterbury. Just buy on the day. Make sure you specify this route when buying.

In summary – wait until the cheap Advance tickets go on sale.

Maybe advance tickets would work okay for two of our three train trips when I dont think there will be any problem catching the train on time but on the first trip, catching the train from Gatwick to Canterbury after our plane lands, it seems like I would not want to get an advanced train ticket because of our plane is late, we are screwed and will have to buy new tickets. For that trip wouldn’t I be better off to buy a cheap off peak ticket the day we arrive? I seem to still not be following this. Sorry.

Oh, I guess that’s what “rambling on” was saying, wasn’t it? What I still don’t get is how do tickets cost the same on the day of the trip as they cost now in advance?

What I still don’t get is how do tickets cost the same on the day of the trip as they cost now in advance?

Because there are different types of tickets.

Advance - Buy in advance, sold in limited numbers and subject to availability. These tickets are only valid on the date/train specified.

Off-Peak/Super Off Peak - Buy any time, travel off-peak.

Anytime - Buy any time, travel any time.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types.aspx

Don’t confuse buying in advance with Advance (capital A) tickets.

It is a shame that the adjective describing what the ticket does is the similar to the name of the type of ticket.

I personally think that there should be a different name - some sort of advertising name - on the tickets rather than words that can be misinterpreted. Sad to say I was never given that job at British Rail or any of its successors.

Nevertheless, we have what we have. As a result of government dictating "simplicity", regardless if it recomplicates.

Advance tickets must be purchased in advance. The further out, generally the cheaper, and as the window opens they can be very cheap. They are capacity controlled so a very cheap price on one train may not be repeated on the next, etc. Some train companies cut off the purchase of Advance tickets at 6pm the day before travel, some at midnight, some one hour before travel. Each of the companies running train the UK is privatised (LNER and TfL exceptions due to circumstances, but still follow the rules) can set however many levels of Advance ticket they want, adjust their own criteria and charge whatever they like for these tickets. These tickets are generally available through any authorised ticket seller - any railway company and resellers such as Trainline, Loco2 and others.

They come with very tight restrictions - no refunds, can only be changed at a booking office before the train leaves on payment of a fee (usually £10) plus an upcharge to a walk-up ticket, so effectively no changes, you must travel on the exact train (and sometimes the exact seat) on the ticket. What you give up in flexibility you make on the cheap fare.

Anytime tickets are the most expensive. The can be purchased at any time after each fare revision (twice or more times a year) and are valid on any train (unless restricted on the ticket to a particular company) on the named day. They can be purchased as you walk to the train or months in advance - the high price does not change. they are valid in the rush hours as well as all day. Usually only purchased as a last resort by people who must travel in the rush/peak hours or people on expense accounts.

Off-Peak tickets are less expensive but not valid on many routes until the morning peak is over and before the evening peak begins and after the evening peak ends. Some routes and some operators do not enforce an evening peak, and some do not enforce an evening peak on the "Return" (the coming-back part of what some people call a round-trip) portion of a ticket.

Super Off-Peak are the same as Off Peak but even cheaper but with more restrictions. They often are only valid for a few hours in the deadest parts of the day.

Off Peak and Super Off Peak tickets can be purchased as walk up or in advance just like Anytime tickets.

I hope this helps a little...

Advanced tickets for Gatwick airport to Canterbury on Aug 9 for 4 people arriving at 7:50 am are now on sale but i wasn’t wanting to buy one of those locked in tickets in case our plane gets in late or lengthy immigration lines. We will have carry on luggage only. The problem is that almost all train tickets are advanced, for hours on end, and I wasn’t expecting that. Is that normal on that route? There is an anytime ticket at 9:06 am (too early) at double the price of the advanced tickets. the first off peak ticket isn’t til 3:06 pm which is way too late in the day. I don’t want to wait all day at Gatwick and waste valuable time nor do I want to stay in London for the first night only. Looks like if I am not willing to buy a cheaper advanced ticket and take a chance that I can catch that specific train, that I am just going to have to buy the anytime ticket, very possibly miss it but we can get on any train after that. Sound about right?

On the national rail planner https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ put in the journey details – from, to, date, time, number of passengers, then click Go. It will show Advance fares of £93.20 (the Off Peak fare is £121.20, Anytime is £187.60).

But these tickets route you through central London (which is marginally quicker). What you need to do is avoid London.

On the webpage displaying the fares you’ll see an Edit journey / add return button. Click on that.

You’ll now see an Advanced search option. Click on that.

In the new fields choose Avoid and London (all stations) then click update train times.

You’ll now see Off Peak tickets for £58.60. They are the ones you want (e.g. via Redhill and Tonbridge). Buy them on the day at Gatwick. When you buy them, make it clear that you want to avoid the quicker London route.

Sorted.

Thank you ramblin. Those fares will probably work if I can wait and get them at that same price on the day i arrive. Which I think everyone is telling me they will not go up in price. Wish that routing went more than once per hour but beggars can’t be choosers.

Yes, Off-Peak fares are walk-up fares, you can get them as you run for the train if you want. They are dated, and have time restrictions, but on the day and at the right time, they are valid on any train on the selected route.

Follow the suggestion to avoid London. Hourly is pretty good, you know. Beats what is available in many other countries. Even Switzerland only has hourly on many routes.

We bought Senior Railcards in 2013 and felt like they saved us a lot of money, sometimes 1st class, ... although the prices and saving varied a lot from one train to the next. We always traveled at or after 10 am. Try entering railcards for comparison as you check prices.

IF you decide to buy or use railcards, you will find that it is very difficult to buy the railcard in advance, with a non-UK billing address. But this is okay; you can buy all your various train tickets, in advance, saying that you have the railcard, ... then buy the railcard in a train station after you arrive. You only need to show the railcard, if asked, when riding on the train. We stood in line about 10 minutes at Victoria station, with full IDs, to purchase the senior railcards.

We return to the UK in 2 weeks, and I've purchased very reasonable senior tickets from London to Chester and Liverpool to London. Our old railcards are expired, so we'll just buy new ones before using those tickets.