Packing and Planning: England & Wales, Sept/Oct

We enjoyed our first trip to the UK last September/October, so I will chime in with a few replies.

Umbrella: I have a rain jacket, but am not 100% certain it's waterproof. It may wet out, or maybe moisture just condenses on the inside. It did hold a puddle of water over a bucket for 30 min.

We did not take an umbrella. We all had rainjackets with hoods. We did get some rain in North Wales, one cloudburst in the Cotswolds, and two brief showers in London. Our jackets were sufficient (we had some from REI).

Clothesline: RS store has a braided one, but I have lots of cordage and knowledge of knots and hitches. Just use what I have? Is the braided one that much better?

We did very minimal washing, and just used shower rods and the towel drying racks.

Maps: Detailed maps are hard for me to read, even with reading glasses. I do have a bit of a magnifier on my hiking compass, but I'm leaning toward relying printouts / screenshots from home and DW's phone.

We had no maps. We rented a car the first week for the countryside, and the second week was spent in London. We used Maps on my iphone, plugged into the car. In London, we used google maps.

Computer: My aged laptop is way too big and heavy to bring. Not sure about going 8 days without checking email (nor how much time we'd have to do so). Am considering a Raspberry Pi setup - have done so before in lodgings, using HDMI to TV. Where we'll be, TVs tend to be mounted high on wall or atop dressers.

I'd seriously consider not worrying about this. Unless you have a sick family member or are in charge of a large business that can't handle things without you, 8 days of being unplugged is glorious.

Converter: I will probably get 1-2 plug converters from the RS store, and maybe bring an extension cord with 2-3 inputs. DW's iPhone must charge daily.

We each took 1 converter. We only needed them in some locations, many of our lodgings had usb ports where we just plugged in our phones. We had nothing else with us that required plugging in.

Dinner Reservations: truly necessary in late Sept/early Oct, in London/Shrewsbury/York? My intuition is to stay flexible - maybe we'd like to dine with another couple we'll meet on the tour. Maybe we'd prefer a lighter dinner since it'll be so late on tour (7-7:30pm).

We only made dinner reservations a few times. Once was in the Cotswolds, because I had picked out a specific restaurant and wanted to ensure a table (we wouldn't have needed the reservation, there was ample seating). Once was for a specific pub in London for our first night, because we wanted Sunday Roast. And once was for afternoon tea at Kensington Palace. True, there were a couple of times that we had to visit 2-3 pubs before being able to be served, but that was actually part of the adventure.

Enjoy your trip! I wish I was there now.

If you are just using the i-phone to take photos, you will save power by having it in airplane mode. This stops it trying to communicate with masts and that uses power.

The easy way to Bletchley Park from Heathrow is to take the RailAir Coach to Watford Junction Station every hour (journey time 43 or 48 minutes) then the train to Bletchley (23 to 38 minute journey) £20.80 Off Peak day return (after 9.30am, any time weekends).

The bus fare is £18 return

Cost wise it is about the same as going into London and back out again, but an easier journey.

Don't bring an umbrella - they are an absolute menace. Check out your jacket next time it rains and see if it is still waterproof. If it is unbreathable, condensation does collect on th inside in hot weather or if you are takin g serious exerecise. If at all in doubt, invest in a new one before you come. Mty jacket doubles as waterproof and also for normal wear.

Try and include a spare pair of shoes - useful if the ones you are wearing get very wet or fall to pieces on you (it can happen...) It's also nice to change into a different pair in the evening.

Don't bother with a lap top. Haven't a clue what a Raspberry Pi setup is. Are you able to access emails using DW's
i-phone? (It's actually quite relaxing to be away from the phone and emails for a few days...)

An extension cord can be useful as plug soclets are not always in the most convenient places.

If you know how much the B&B will cost you could always get UK money before you come to cover this bill if you are worried about fees when using cards.

Converter: I will probably get 1-2 plug converters from the RS store, and maybe bring an extension cord with 2-3 inputs. DW's iPhone must charge daily.

We each took 1 converter. We only needed them in some locations, many of our lodgings had usb ports where we just plugged in our phones. We had nothing else with us that required plugging in.

I think you both mean adaptors, not converters. Adaptors are the plugs that allow a US device/appliance to be plugged into a UK outlet. Rick Steves carries them, but I actually like this one, which came in very handy for me, as it will plug into the UK outlet, but has places for 3 outlets, 2 USB-C ports and 1 USB-A. Very convenient. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C27DSWHB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

FWIW, you should not need a converter, which converts the electric from the US 110V to UK220. Just about every device these days comes with dual voltage, like phones, computers, etc. Some devices like blow dryers and shavers may need a switch toggled, so you might want to check that (if you are bringing one). You really shouldn't need a blow dryer as every hotel and B&B will have one.

Check that any power adaptor confirms with the appropriate British Standard for them, which is BS 8546. If it doesn't say it is then it almost certainly doesn't, no matter how reputable the supplier.

Yes, Mardee, we took adapters. I didn't think of the correct term when replying.

Thank you all - some replies to the great advice so far ...

First, yes, I suppose I meant adapter, not converter. One of them might do, but we are 4 nights in B&Bs that may not have in-room USB ports. It's unclear if the Rabbie's van will.

Pictures - well, the iPhone is DW's, and will be in her hands. OK for selfies but I find the images far too noisy when viewed at 100% resolution. So I'd like my own camera ... photos help me remember trips.

Email - DW can get hers on her phone. For reasons beyond this thread, I will not use a phone or tablet for email or bank alerts (which are my dept.). So either I bring a computer, or have a glorious break. As for the need: we have, between the two of us, five parents/step-parents >= 81 yrs old, in mixed health. A phone call may suffice for that. But I also get alerts from financial firms by email too. Anyway, the Raspberry Pi is like the "tiny house" of computers. The unit itself is about the size of a deck of cards, to which you add keyboard/mouse, power supply, and HDMI cable to a monitor /TV. About 1.5 lbs in all. They're popular with hobbyists, educators, and industry. Many are made in Wales, actually.

Cash - the B&B requiring cash payment will be, IIRC, £210. I think I might save about $20 USD by getting cash in London with the Fidelity debit card (ignoring potential exchange rate movements), versus ordering currency ahead of time via "BigBank". Is it hard to get that much at once? We'd probably want a little more too. I have about £60-65 in current currency, a bit of which is in coins. Is there any typical/standard cost in coins for public restrooms?

Rain Jacket - mine is a Costco special, 32 Degrees brand. It was during "testing" that I thought it was leaking, but now I wonder if it was condensation, like one gets in single-wall tents, or on the outside of a glass of iced tea in summertime.

Shoes - My Eccos are reasonably waterproof, but if water gets in them (e.g., via foot-hole), they may take a very long time to dry out. I'm not bringing cedar shoe trees. The trail runners have mesh on the upper, so they are not waterproof. But they dry quicker. The Sketchers are like Chuck Taylors on top (canvas), but the insole is memory foam. They pack almost as well as Tevas or Birkenstocks (neither of which I currently own). But it's a chunk of a carry-on, even if light. If I have to forgo the LLB Deluxe bookpack due to underseat storage limits, I don't think I can take them, unless I cut back on clothes and wash them more often.

Dinner: I don't think we have any specific places in mind, so yes, trying out places will be part of the adventure!

First, yes, I suppose I meant adapter, not converter. One of them might do, but we are 4 nights in B&Bs that may not have in-room USB ports. It's unclear if the Rabbie's van will.

Just to clarify, we each brought one. We didn't only bring one and share.

As regards restrooms, if there is a charge 20p or 30p normally. But it can be 50 pence, or in parts of the Lake District 70p.

In London I can't remember when I last used a public restroom, they are pretty thin on the ground now. Usually I use main line rail stations where they are free, or museums- also free.

I assume you are doing Heart of England, Wales and Yorkshire. In provincial towns very often shopping centres or big stores where they will always be free.

In some areas you may find they are not cash, rather credit card only. Equally in some places like North Wales they are often free.

At your London boarding point- the old Green Line Coach Station there are none. Use the free ones upstairs in Victoria Place Shopping Centre (across the road).

On another topic Hampton Court is easy from Heathrow- use Red London Bus Route #111 every 11 or 12 minutes- £1.75 each way.

Likewise Windsor is easy with 3 or 4 buses an hour from Heathrow,

You don’t very often have to pay for toilets and if you do they’re all set up for contactless payment now (I think known more commonly as tap to pay in the US). Make sure you have a card that is enabled for this.

You will be able to manage without reservations if you’re flexible about where you eat. It’s always possible that popular places could be full. In London the majority of people on the streets, underground and eating in restaurants are not tourists and it is therefore busy all the time, but there are so many places to go that you will never have a problem finding somewhere.

Personally I wouldn’t want to carry a laptop. I don’t know how easy it is to set up the raspberry pi and I think only you will know if it’s worth it to you. If you need to be in contact with home and don’t like using a phone or tablet then you may just have to bring it.

EDIT: Woops! I see you posted while I was writing this. Sorry that some of it doesn't apply.

ORIGINAL POST: Welcome to the forum Alfred. I'm starting to plan next year's England/Ireland trip and leave in three weeks for Italy. Two years ago I spent a week in London before going to France. Hopefully I can answer a couple of your questions.

Luggage:
Which airline are you flying on? On their website, they list both carry-on and personal item size limits. As long as you are within the sizes listed, you are fine. I use a squishable tote bag as a personal item; a backpack within the airlines size limits will work fine. On United, the aisle economy under seat storage seems small but I can cram my tote under there. My carry-on is the Rick Steves Rolling Carry-On which fits within the overhead size limits. Not knowing how old you are, are you sure you want to lug a duffle bag around? Maybe think about a wheeled carry-on for yourself.

Umbrella
I take a very small Tote Umbrella (I saw one at TJ Maxx today) and have used it each time I've visited Europe. I have a rain poncho, but I don't expect it to work great in windy west Ireland so am going to upgrade to a rain coat. For your existing rain coat, you can spray it with Dry Coat waterproofing. I used to use it on my horses' blankets, but to be honest, if the jacket's waterproofing is dead, it won't work.

Shoes
I always take two pairs of shoes, be it shoes and sandals or two pairs of shoes. I bought a pair of waterproof Keens for England/Ireland (on sale at Nordstrom Rack) and will also take a pair of walking shoes. My size 10 Ladies will take less than your size 10 Mens, but your feet will like the rotation. I'll have to take fewer snack bars to have more packing room!

Clothesline
I gave up on clotheslines several trips ago, no good place to stretch it. I now take four folding hangers (available on Amazon). I can hang clothes to drip dry with almost no wrinkles. What won't hang goes over towel bars and the shower door.

Maps, Photos, Phone, Computer
I use my iPhone 13 Pro Max for everything, so I'm no help to you there. Because I travel solo and my husband is a technophobe, I use Verizon's International Plan instead of eSim so he can call me if need be.

Converter
Adapter as mentioned by others. RS ones work fine, but take several because you'll lose them or leave them in hotel sockets.

Payments
I take a primary BAC Visa and a secondary BAC visa, both with no foreign transaction fees. I also take a Fidelity Visa also with no foreign transaction fees as a third back-up in case there is a bank problem with BAC.
I loaded the primary BAC CC and Fidelity CC into Apple Wallet, but since you won't have an iPhone, that won't help you. Can your wife load a card or two into her phone? That way you can use the same card on the Tube; you use the physical card, she uses the card in Apple Wallet.
My Fidelity ATM card is linked to a separate Fidelity CMA "travel" account, no foreign transaction fees, favorable currency conversion rate.
I know some people on the forum like Schwab, but as a former Schwabbie long since retired from Scottrade, I will have nothing to do with Schwab. (End of discussion.)

Dinner Reservations
Can't help you here. I'm not a foodie nor am I very picky.

Bookend Days
I think you answered your own question: "neither of us has been to Oxford before, and may not get another chance." Go since you have the chance. Also Hampton Court is worth a visit. Beyond that, list what you think you want see and categorize by "A" "B" and "C" sights. Then lay out your days by location so you aren't going back and forth.

Hope this helps at least a little. I'll be taking four Rabbie's Day trip, two from London and two from Killarney. I hope you will post a trip report. Have a great trip!

Thank you for the clarification on restrooms. Yes, I had made a note of the Victoria Place ones ... for customers, but we'll probably get some breakfast there anyway.

Horsewoofie, thanks for your reply as well! To answer your questions ... we're on Delta, and as best I can tell, they only publish dimensional limits for carry-on bags, not personal items. But they do publish underseat storage dimensions for the particular aircraft we're on (they're almost identical - differing by a half-inch in only one dimension). So ... I was using that as a best guess. Apparently it's not a rule, but if my bag stuck out significantly, it might become an issue. I realize there are often power ports and such between seats at foot level, but I am surprised that there's less depth to the underseat room on an international flight. Apparently my LLB backpack is already 2" too long for domestic 737s, but it's not been flagged before. But 3" too long? At some point it could become an issue.

Is "BAC" Bank of America? Apparently that's their stock market ticker symbol. The BAC cards of mine (credit, debit) both have FTF of 3%, so maybe I don't have the same ones you do. Their spread vs foreign exchange rate was 5.5% when I checked the other day ... and they apply both. That's why I'm going with Costco Citi Visa and REI Capital One MC for my CC. Fidelity will be my debit card.

Oh, on the duffel. Well, I'm 56, but an avid hiker/backpacker. At worst I'd carry it in hand (alternate) and wear the personal item as a backpack or courier bag. Or vice versa. But DW is using the spinner to not have significant weight on her back. The spinner's wheels and telescoping handle take up some of the alotted dimensional room (about 15% I estimated), and as a tall guy, my clothes are big - I'd rather not trade off that space for that helpful hardware. If I gave up some duffel space it might be for a spare pair of shoes. In 45F-65F weather, sandals are out. To bring extra shoes and use a rolling bag, I'd probably only be able to pack 2 changes of shirt/pants (along with raingear, sweater/fleece, extra u/w and socks, etc) in the carry-on. I could ... not sure I want to. :)

Alfred, yes BAC is Bank of America. My credit cards are Premier Rewards and Travel Rewards. The Fidelity credit card no longer has fees but I still only use it as a back up.

You’re almost 20 years younger than me so your duffle should be fine as your carry-on. It’s a challenge to pack light and carry-on only. Especially to a cold rainy climate. United’s personal item size limit is 17x10x9 if that helps. I think the airlines should be the same since Delta says diaper bag.
Kathy

Alfred, although you didn’t ask, I thought I’d throw a couple more items into the mix in case you didn’t think about them. It sounds like you have done a lot of research and planning.

Are you and DW wearing money belts or neck wallets for deep storage of extra money, back up credit cards, debit card and passport? This is not your daily money. Pickpockets look for easy targets.

Also, does your medical insurance cover you internationally? What about medical evacuation? Comprehensive trip insurance covers most or you can buy separate medical and med evac. If you have already done so or have a higher risk tolerance than me, ignore my questions.

I realized one element of my reply was ambiguous. When I mentioned that the underseat storage for our expected aircraft was almost identical, I meant between each aircraft, not almost almost identical to carry on size. Delta's carry on limit is 22x14x9 (inches), but their personal item dimensions are unlisted. They describe a personal item as a purse, briefcase, small backpack, camera bag, diaper bag, or laptop bag. But then I found the underseat dimensions. For the 767-400 it's 14x12x8.5. For the a330neo it's 14x12x8. There's nothing that explicitly states that such a personal item must be no bigger than the underseat dimensions. But since the underseat is surprisingly small, about 1/3 smaller than Delta's domestic 737-800 (15x13x10), I raised the question.

Money belt - yes, thanks for the reminder. That might be something else we'd get from the RS store. I'm inclined to go for a neck belt simply because the quick-dry pants I plan to bring don't have room for such. I have some winter-season jeans that are a little oversized for stuffing the tails of thick flannel shirt and undershirt / thermals in them, but I don't want to bring jeans (or, at least not only jeans). Not sure what DW plans to use, I need to ask. I'd guess a cross-body thing, like the Eddie Bauer ripstop sling backpack. With my hiking/backpacking gear, I often get little stuff sacks that, coupled with some longer cordage, could serve as a neck wallet. I could buy a dedicated neck wallet, but my impulse is to make do with what I have. Pls. advise if you think that penny wise but pound foolish. [how apt a phrase!]

Good question on medical insurance. That will be DW's department, she works in that field.

I would definitely want to take a pair of waterproof shoes. EDITED: breathable, such as Goretex. I have traveled with only the (waterproof) shoes on my feet and nothing bad happened, but after the sole on my hiking boots came off (fortunately at a state park a few miles from my house), I take an extra pair-wear your heaviest pair on the plane. I would be very uncomfortable without a device I could connect to the internet. Without an iPhone, I would consider a tablet. You have chosen a great Rabbies tour. I don't remember his name, but our driver/guide on that tour was the best we have ever had. He was born to do that job!

I could buy a dedicated neck wallet, but my impulse is to make do with what I have.

I think you'd be fine making do with what you have. Personally, I don't wear a neck wallet—I keep credit cards and passport in my crossbody bag—but many here do, and some are quite creative in what they use. Anything that can hold valuable items should work.

By the way, I am also putting in a plug for Oxford. I was recently in England for 5 1/2 weeks and stopped at Oxford on my way back to Heathrow to head home. I had about 5-6 hours on the first day, and about 5 hours on the second, but absolutely loved it! It's such a cool and wonderful city with fabulous architecture, history and just a wonderful vibe. Try not to miss the Ashmolean Museum if possible (it's free, btw). I was enthralled by it. I didn't have near enough time to see it all, but it just made me want to go back to Oxford again, which I will do.

I am going to respectfully disagree with Cala. I did not have waterproof shoes during my England stay and I was fine. My shoes were good sturdy walking shoes (Obox Low Leather) and were water resistant, but not waterproof. And I was all over the place, traveling to Northumberland, Yorkshire, the Peak District, Cornwall, etc. in late March and April (the rainy season) and never once had a problem. That said, if you have a pair already you might want to bring them, but I would not buy a pair specifically for this trip.

Thank you Mardee! Will pass along the Oxford recomm.

We are on Delta itself (out of ATL), not one of its codeshare partners. The underseat dimensions I posted were from Delta's own website. I guess that could change with a change in equipment, but these two types of aircraft are listed as having very similar underseat dimensions - where we'll be sitting, anyway. [sorry, thought you asked about this but can't find it now ... maybe you edited it out?]

w/r/t shoes, as a hiker, one of the bits of unconventional wisdom is that waterproof shoes are often undesirable for hiking, save for subfreezing conditions, say. The reason is that your foot will get wet one way or another ... with a mesh-top trail runner, it's obvious how your foot will get wet in rain/puddles. With a waterproof shoe, your foot will get wet from sweat buildup and possibly also water infiltration from the top of the shoe where your foot goes in. So your feet and shoes get wet one way or another. The waterproof shoe, however, will be very hard to dry out. There's less ability for moisture in the shoe to evaporate (only through the foot hole, not through a mesh upper); you can't really "walk them dry", which I have done with a trail runner.

That said, this is not a hiking trip, and a Kiwi-polish-treated solid leather upper should handle the occasional splash and drizzle better - in the short term. Slip-ons are nice for airport security too. Extended time in rain, they'll probably be worse. So it's a tough decision on footwear.

[sorry, thought you asked about this but can't find it now ... maybe you edited it out?]

Yes, I'm sorry for the confusion. After I posted that info, I saw that you had clarified the issue in a later post, so deleted that section.

It sounds like you’re only going to urban locations so any decent shoes should be water resistant enough. If planning to walk in the British countryside you absolutely need waterproof boots or walking shoes at the least. Your feet will be drenched after the first wet field if you don’t.

Update -
On the luggage front, I've seen forum posts here and there noting that underseat storage on transatlantic flights has been shrinking along with the proliferation of electronics boxes mounted there for charging and serving in-flight entertainment. Perhaps not all seats are equally impacted, but the general sense is that yes, there's less room than before. So while Delta may not have a specific limit on personal item size, they do publish underseat dimensions (14x12x8). This has led me to search a bit harder for a bag that would fit the bill. Turns out I did find one that fits about perfectly ... darn if it's not surprisingly small, and shaped like a vintage flight bag ... it's just missing the Pan Am logo on it. But it does say Samsonite. Not sure if DW will use it or me. [Edit: it's not hard-sided, so flexible, but it's somewhat stiff, thick denier and not super squishable]. We have some less-perfect options that may work too - including that Bean bookpack, which is somewhat squishable if not fully filled. Again, Delta didn't directly specify dimensional limits for the personal item. Perhaps we should value squishability more than a fairly stiff personal item that matches the claimed dimensions underseat room? Underseat room may vary, right?

For a carry-on, I did test a smaller hiking backpack to be <= 22x14x9, and it could work, but it comes awfully close to being over in one dimension (while under in another). If I stand each side of it up after filling it with clothes (and removing the hipbelt and lid), it just meets carry-on dimensions. It's close - you have to push down to shape it a bit. The challenge is that it wants to be thicker and narrower ... i.e., ~22x12x10. If I flatten it out a bit, it gets to ~ 22x13x9, but it would be a roll of the dice with a gate agent (each way). By contrast, my REI duffel easily can conform to the required shape. It's just a little less comfortable on the shoulders (using the long handle straps, about 1" wide) than the purpose-designed backpack and its wider padded shoulder straps.

Umbrella - I can see leaving it now ... but I also note that Delta does not count an umbrella or a jacket against your carry-on allowance. They are freebies. Hopefully a hat is too - but they don't say that.

Shoes: Helen, yes, you are right. And one option on this tour is to spend a day in the Yorkshire Dales, instead of staying in York. But trail runners dry out quicker than WP shoes/boots (should water get in, and/or from sweat). OTOH, my Ecco loafers (leather upper, rubber sole) are well-broken in, and it would be easy to refresh their WP with a good polish before leaving. It's a toughie.

w/r/t carry-on item (Delta: 22x14x9 limit), would any of you advise against these two options I have for the reasons that give me pause? Context is - we are flying basic economy, so the odds that overhead bins may be full are greater, and so are the odds of having to gate-check (is that the term?) our carry-on bag.

Frameless backpack (clothing) - While it's malleable and easy to carry (leaving hands free even), it does have various straps and mesh external pockets. Those might not do so well if it ends up getting checked due to overhead bins being full. I can try to tighten the straps (shoulder, hip, and cinching straps) and wrap excess around itself, but I wasn't planning to set aside room for a separate "overbag" for it, for such a contingency. Unwise choice for BE ticket? This had been my intention (the frameless BP for carry-on, with a small carry duffel for underseat). That way most total weight would be on hips/shoulders.

Thin, "REI Stuff Travel" (~40L) duffel - with clothing inside, it can easily conform to be within the required dimensions. This duffel is super light - 9 ounces including optional shoulder strap. I don't know the nylon's denier but I'd guess about 40d. Would you consider that a bad choice for the possibility of gate checking?

I'm considering another duffel that is 600d polyester. That might solve the gate check issue. But if I went that direction, I'd likely want to have my personal item be a backpack, not a flight bag, because I'd prefer to keep a hand free and have some weight on my shoulders. The issue then becomes that my daypacks aren't super close to the published 14x12x8 underseat room*. I have, for instance one (17x13x9.5) that is only somewhat squishable (due to a flexible but thick foam backpanel), another very squishable one (19x10x7) that IMO gives up too much in the other dimensions.

*again, Delta does not publish a specific dimensional limit for personal item, but it supposedly "must fit" under the seat, and they publish underseat dimensions for their aircraft.

Thank you!

You don’t very often have to pay for toilets and if you do they’re all set up for contactless payment now

That depends very much by area. In the Lake District you will be very hard pressed to find any which are free, and I can think of quite a few which do not have contactless payment.

I was in England for almost 6 weeks and never had a problem finding a free toilet, especially in London. And during the tour, I really wouldn't worry about it, since Rabbies will surely be able to find toilets for you.

One of them might do, but we are 4 nights in B&Bs that may not have in-room USB ports. It's unclear if the Rabbie's van will.

According to their website, they do not provide wifi in their vans and cannot guarantee that ports will be provided. So I would assume you will not have any, and plan accordingly. I use my phone for photos, which can burn up a lot of battery charge, so I always bring a portable power bank with me for my phone. Something your wife might want to think about. My favorite brand is Anker, and they have various power banks at reasonable prices.

With regards to Delta, I fly them almost exclusively overseas (sometimes with code shares) and they're usually not too terribly strict about the dimensions. If you are concerned, I would go for something a bit more "squashy" so that you could conceivably manage to squeeze it into the bin. Also try to get near the front of your boarding section so that you are among the first of the basic economy passengers to board. That might not help but it couldn't hurt. They are strict about making sure that your personal item goes under the seat during take-off and landing. Otherwise, you can put it where you like.

Keep in mind that a lot depends on how crowded the flight is. Late September is not high season, so it may not be full, which could help you. I would keep checking the seats to see how it's filling up, although I'm not sure if you are able to do that with basic economy.

ETA: By the way, I'm assuming you're taking Rabbies "Heart of England, Wales & Yorkshire." If so, it looks like your tour is going through the Peak District, which is such a lovely destination. Chatsworth House is absolutely gorgeous, and the whole countryside of the Peak is quite beautiful. It was one of my favorite places.

I'm in the "travel w two pairs of shors," camp

The lake district is beautiful!!! Best friend did her masters up there on a rotary scholarship

Thanks Mardee - that's good to know about the strictness of a personal item for takeoff and landing. You're the first I've seen to mention Delta being particularly strict about carry-ons and personal item sizes (i.e., most consider them to be non-sticklers) but the takeoff and landing parts make sense and ring true. One thing I could obviously do with the 17x13x9.5 bag is underpack it - that solves the 9.5" dimension if it's on its back. The other two, well there's some flex to that foam panel, and maybe if my toes were jammed into the top of it, I could keep pressure on that foam panel to fold over 90 degrees and force it into a 14" height. The frame of the seat in front of me could provide the force to keep the width from going too far. Again, depending on underpacking.

As for the carry-on in the bin, all of them are frameless, so all should be squishable, to a moderate degree at least (the super-thin duffel is so squishable you could just about pour it into a container if it was filled with beads! I was mostly curious if frequent fliers would advise against either or both thin materials or backpacks with exposed straps if there was a risk of having to gate check it.

Your instinct was right for basic economy: seats are assigned at check-in. Check-in is 24h prior to departure. I did not get the impression I have a choice, and might not even get to sit with my spouse for all I know.

Thanks also for commenting on batteries. I've given that a lot of thought. I had hoped to bring a real camera on this trip, but the space savings and battery life of my old smartphone is just too great to ignore. It's only 18 months old and has a 5000 mAh battery. By contrast, my superzoom clocks in at 2450 and my DSLR at 1230 - and that was when the batteries were 7 years ago. Probably half that now (so 1230 for the pair). Granted, the smartphone might use more battery per minute b/c of the large screen, but it's just so slim and easier to recharge ... I feel I should compromise, and leave a heavier, bulkier camera behind. Mostly b/c we can't check a bag, so we're really limited for space.

A spare pair of shoes and a great camera would be nice. To get there, I think I'd have to first cut back on clothing. Packing 3 pants, 4 LS shirts, 3 SS (under)shirts, 7 u/w and socks ... is that excessive for 8 days / 7 nights in late sept/early oct? Plus rain jacket, light puffer, thin merino sweater, and 100wt fleece (will wear 1-2 of those on plane). We're told there won't be a chance to launder clothes, but I am hoping to sink wash about every other day. I could reduce the u/w and socks (which don't take much room, tbh, esp. the boxer briefs), knock off 1 from the packed pants and shirts, and create some room. Though I wouldn't put the camera in the clothing carry-on duffel. It needs more protection from rolling-bag-slammers than just some clothes. I guess shoes could go in there instead, if room was created.

isn31c, I don't think we'll be in the Lake District, but if other areas (like the Yorkshire Dales) are like it, well I hope the right pocket change can come my way. Will I be able to hold my bladder? Depends ....

I think your clothing allotment sounds spot on. If I were to get rid of anything, it might be one of the LS shirts. 3 would probably be plenty. But I would definitely do a pre-pack test to see what you can fit in. And yes, I sink wash myself. As I've mentioned, I spent almost 6 weeks this spring in England, and I pretty much washed my clothes in the sink (or bathtub) the entire time. So 8 days should be fine.

And again, I wouldn't worry about toilets as I'm sure Rabbies will make sure you have access. And you definitely won't have problems finding one in London.

One other thing—you mentioned a clothesline, but as maryellenhowan above mentioned, I wouldn't bother bringing one. Most UK hotels have towel racks (a lot of them are heated) and you can always hang them in the shower and bathtub. Some will have the old-fashioned radiator heaters, which are great for drying clothes.

Edit: I do agree with doric8 that it can be very helpful to have a second pair of shoes. Your shoes might get wet or very muddy or just uncomfortable after walking all day, and it's nice to be able to slip into another pair. Ideally it would be something that you can walk in if something happened to your first pair of shoes. I brought a pair of Oboz Low-Leather walking shoes for my main shoes, but also had a pair of Hey Dude deck shoes, which are VERY lightweight and you could comfortably walk up to a walk of a mile or more in them (I have). It would be easy to slip a pair of lightweight shoes into your luggage, especially if you eliminate one of the LS shirts (or something else).

Maps: Detailed maps are hard for me to read, even with reading glasses. I do have a bit of a magnifier on my hiking compass, but I'm leaning toward relying printouts / screenshots from home and DW's phone

One nice thing about Google maps is that when you use it for directions as a pedestrian, you can turn the audio on so that it guides you by voice. This might come in handy in London if you are using it to walk around the city.

You will only be there for 7 days, so 9 days in full. You can wear things 2-3 times or wash in a sink. Assuming you are wearing clothes, I'll refer to your packing numbers. I travel for much longer than you and would pack for a longer time: 4 tops at the most...so 2 LS and 2 SS shirts (actually I'd wear one SS shirt in transit so 2 LS and 1 SS. I'd also pack 2 slacks (so you have 3 in total). I've only packed an extra pair of shoes twice. They were superfluous. Unless you arrive during a snowstorm you just need trail runners or such. You are right. They dry quickly. The one time I brought an extra pair of good walking shoes, I wore them once just because I had them. So...many trips with one pair and flip flops or such for the hotel room. That works great.

Thanks again Mardee! Yes, I've been test-packing quite a bit! Perhaps I could go down to wear one, pack three in terms of LS shirts. Our lodging situation makes the timing of wash something I have to stay on top of - our seven nights are at 4 different places, in a 1 (hotel), 2 (B&B), 2 (B&B), 2 (hotel). That first night, we'll have been in our same clothes for about 36h. My strategy would then I suppose be to wash upon arrival at each of the next 3 lodging stops. That gives anything I wash more than 24h to dry, which may be necessary based on my home testing, even with quick-dry clothes (I don't recall the UK having low humidity). I think a big reason for unexpectedly long dry times in my testing is that my microfiber towel isn't drawing out nearly as much water from washed clothes as my washer's spin cycle (the towel is probably not as quick-wicking as cotton; I do know they can hold a LOT of water). I also think a line and clothespins will dry items faster than side of tub. I hope our places have the racks you mentioned! It's hard to tell in advance for every place.

Hello Wray! - I think it'll work out to be 7 nights, 8 days over there. Maybe you're counting our red-eye flight departure day as the 9th day, so that would mean an 8th night ... with Delta as our ersatz lodging. Fair point, I hadn't thought of it that way!
w/r/t the SS shirts, (maybe you didn't mean it this way, but) I am not anticipating that I could wear any of them in lieu of a LS shirt ... they would be used as undershirts (and possibly sleep shirts the night before). Reason is avg temps are expected to range from 45F-65F. Should a heat wave occur, I could wear them (they won't be plain white tees - I'm going with color and whatever design or logo, for better or worse). I guess I could do away with undershirts but I think they can help keep my LS shirts fresh enough. Without them, I'd really rely on my outer layers to keep warm in the AM.

If your broader point is cut back on clothes, yeah, I can probably do it (hard to take the leap though!. Just need to trust in sink washing. I might be able to cut back one other thing too - go with either a fleece or a down puffer, instead of wear one, pack one.

We took this Rabbies tour in 2022 and I hope you get our guide. I forget his name, but he was born to do this job! Sink washing really only works when you are in the same hotel for two nights. Personally, I think it's worth the expense to own a breathable waterproof jacket made of Goretex or a similar fabric. You definitely want to attend Evensong if you like music and I think they also have it at York Minster but you may have a group dinner the night you're in York.

I hope our places have the racks you mentioned! It's hard to tell in advance for every place.

I was in Scotland for 3 weeks in 2023 and then this year in England, and I would bet that probably 85% of the places I stayed in had the towels racks. B&B's and smaller hotels are more likely to have them than the chain hotels, imo. I also hung some of them on hangers, which helped to dry items.

Getting closer, a few lingering questions on 3 topics:

new one: it's been so long since I flew a red-eye overseas. What should my expectation be with respect to quiet/darkish hours on the flight? It leaves around 5:30p ET and arrives in London around 6:30a. I figure there will be various interruptions for food/snacks, captain's announcements (often after leveling out, and preparation for landing, etc.). I'm guessing for an 8h flight one probably won't get 6h quiet time, probably closer to 4h. Is that a good guess?

umbrella - hard to ignore b/c it's a Delta freebie in terms of personal item allowances (though it physically takes up room). But my Q is related to size. I had picked out one that advertised a generous canopy, something like 40-42". But then I compared it to a much smaller-packing one, and found that the diameter of the "bigger" canopy was within an inch of the tiny umbrella ... and was more like 35-36". Turns out, the former one had measured itself along the curve of the canopy, not the diameter. The smaller one was flatter in that regard. So I returned the "boastful" one. But I'm having second thoughts - maybe there is some value to a more bell-shaped canopy, even if the diameter is not significantly larger?

shoes: having second thoughts on these. My plan was to wear Adidas Terrex trail runners, black, which aren't waterproof, but will dry much quicker than a waterproof shoe that could get wet either from water infiltration through the foot opening, or from sweat (b/c WP shoes don't breathe, don't get me started on WP-B). In the summer I've easily walked trail runners dry. But it has occurred to me: this isn't summer. Temps may be in the 40F-50F range, and a wet foot at that temp may be quite a different experience than at 80F (and constant walking/heat generation). So perhaps I should reconsider the pro/con balance of the trail runners vs. my Ecco Helsinki slip-ons. Should this ambient temp difference lead me to choose the Eccos? I'm not likely to have room for a second pair. Unclear if any significant "hiking" will occur on this Rabbie's tour. Possibly some gravel paths, but I'm guessing probably not much dirt/mud.

Been lucky enough to travel and stay in London nearly every year. Not a hiker but a walker. I take Keen low cut Targhee waterproof shoes to wear almost everyday. If I need to spiff up my attire I’ll wear my Targhee Kaci slip ons.

Keens are expensive but, for me, the only brand of shoes and sandals that I’ll wear.

What should my expectation be with respect to quiet/darkish hours on the flight? It leaves around 5:30p ET and arrives in London around 6:30a.

So basically you're leaving at 10:30 pm London time and arriving 7 hours later. Delta usually serves dinner maybe an hour+ into the flight. One tip to consider is to request one of the "special" meals, like Asian, Vegetarian, Gluten-free, etc. Those meals always come out first, so you can eat and save some time, and then try to sleep. You should get a small packet with some toiletries from Delta, which will contain a small toothbrush, toothpaste, ear plugs, earbuds, and an eye mask. Use the eye mask if the lights are still on.

After dinner is over and the trash collected, they turn off the lights, so I would think you would get possibly 5 hours of darkness/quiet time. People usually start to wake up about 1+ hours before landing and that's when they serve breakfast. My flights usually leave around 8:30 or 9 pm and get in around 7:30, and that's what I have experienced.

Umbrella: With regards to an umbrella, I usually just bring a small portable one. I rarely use it but found that if I don't have it, I want it, so something small does the trick.

Shoes: I always bring a pair of Oboz low-leather trail shoes, which are sturdy, durable and water-resistant and these work very well for me. I'm not familiar with the shoes you have but I personally want to make sure my shoes are as sturdy as possible. Mud will dry and come off, but you don't want to lose your footing if you can help it.

ETA: Here is a link to Delta's list of special meals and how to order: https://www.delta.com/us/en/onboard/food-and-beverage/special-meals

Thanks Claudia and Mardee - sounds like you wear similar shoes. The Ecco pair I was considering are these:

https://orleansshoes.com/cdn/shop/products/ecco-usa-shoes-men-s-helsinki-cocoa-brown-loafer-28218615038117.jpg

My first inclination had been these Adidas Terrex Swift (but in non-Goretex version):

https://academy.scene7.com/is/image/academy/20085061

But that inclination was based on a perhaps-faulty analogy with hiking, during which quick-drying, mesh-top trail runners are a superior choice in summer (and generally, for above-freezing temps), because you can walk them dry, whereas waterproof shoes will stay wet inside, at least from sweat (if not water infiltration through the foot hole). We're starting to get within weather forecast range for the trip, and the early days look to be a bit cooler than average, if not wet too.

Mardee, thanks for the breakdown. I was a bit off - our outbound flight is supposedly 8h 15m elapsed duration - not sure how much slack Delta builds in there. Funny, they just emailed me today about Special Meals and other in-flight things. Anyway, sounds like I might have a decent shot of exceeding 4h of dark/quiet time. That would be nice. An eye mask would definitely help.

Alfred, whichever shoes you choose, just make sure you have time to break them in before you go! And I speak from experience. :-)

Just returned from our trip. So much to write/share with F&F, but thought I'd circle back to this thread and comment on how things played out in case anyone has similar questions going forward and it might help them.

We did lose our first day in London due to knock-on effects of Hurricane Helene. The storms leading up to landfall caused disastrous traffic N of Atlanta and we just missed our flight. But a lot else went wrong too - and if any one of them had not, we might have made it. Consequently, we arrived just in time to join our 5 day tour and have one full day in London, before returning.

Luggage: I went with a frameless Granite Gear Virga 2 backpack (underfilled to 40-45L) and a courier bag (w/ top handle and shoulder strap) as a personal item. No trouble with them on either aircraft. Probably could have gone a bit bigger on the latter item, but it was fine. Also packed a small daypack.

Umbrella: glad I had it, because it helped keep rain off my backpack / daypack. We had heavy rain and wind at times, but it only inverted once, and recovered from that.

Shoes: I went with the Ecco slip-ons. Nothing would be perfect, but my feet stayed pretty dry in them, and they were COMFORTABLE. After prolonged rain the well-polished leather uppers did get damp, perhaps via the stitching (which I could have Sno-Sealed, but didn't). But the inside never got sloshy with water. Trail runners would have, and with temps about 50-55, I think I'm glad I went with Ecco.

Clothesline: never used mine; didn't have good end anchor points. Nor the clothespins. I did bring 3 plastic hangers, and did use those.

Maps: We had some issues with live directions on Google Maps throughout this trip, but seldom needed maps anyway. The one time we did, last day in London, I remembered that the National Portrait Gallery was due south of Leicester Sq Tube station, and I relied on my compass to tell me which way was south on Charing Cross Road.

Photos: I made room and got my DSLR packed for this trip, an old smartphone backing it up (and put in service for rainy days). Very glad to have done so, as a bigger sensor helps make up for no flash.

Phone: never activated my GiffGaff card. Actually misplaced it for a few days anyway, but we just relied on DW's iPhone and work-provided service.

Computer: I bit the bullet and set up that old smartphone with KeePass2Android Offline and accessed webmail on it. It saved a lot of room, clutter, and some weight, but I don't really trust phones to be secure. I'll be updating my passwords shortly now that I'm home. My Pi would have worked with the in-room TVs at both B&Bs, but ironically, not at Premier Inn for our last 2 nights - that TV's HDMI port was not accessible.

Converter: was handy for charging phone. Never had to charge DSLR battery, much to my surprise, since I took over 400 pix on it. (I never used Live View and stuck with the viewfinder - that may have helped).

Payments: Upon arrival we got cash for our first B&B payment with our Fidelity CMA card out of a PLUS-labeled ATM at Victoria Place. After that, we just used the Costco Citibank Visa for tap-to-pay everywhere else. I did unload all my spare GBP currency and coin as well.

Reservations: we never made any, and we were fine. We needed that time flexibility anyhow.

Bookend days: as mentioned, we missed our first one. For the second, we were whipped from substandard sleep during the tour, so we didn't get into central London til almost midday. We did the NPG (having done NG the last time), BoE Museum, and St. Martin-in-the-Fields for a cafe lunch in the crypt, a tour, and a service, which was particularly meaningful to DW. Quick peek at Trafalgar and we headed back to PI @ LHR T4 for a good night's sleep prior to departure. Next AM, got to experience the Elizabeth Line for the first time in transferring to T3. It's so much nicer than the old trains.