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Northern England and Scotland

My wife and I are celebrating our 50th birthdays this year and we are going to tour northern England and southern Scotland. It will be my wife's first time ever to Europe, and my second time to the UK (first was to London for one week on 1996).

We chose this area as it's something of a heritage tour for us; my wife has done pretty extensive genealogy on our families and it generally points to these areas of origin. We also chose these areas as they seem rather compact - and distances relatively short - given that we'll only be there for 9 nights.

We're traveling during the last two weeks of May. Our itinerary includes: land in Manchester (fly in and stay one night), three nights in Edinburgh, 2 nights in Durham, 2 nights in the Lake District, final night in Manchester (fly home next day).

Does anyone have any insight into what special events - cultural, musical, etc. - may be occurring in those areas at that time? Also, any advice on farmhouse accommodations in the Lake District and any solid B&B recommendations in Edinburgh?

We are also planning to rent a car to travel between Durham > Lake District > Manchester. Any tips for driving on English roads in these areas also greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
- Ryan and Erika Morrison; Chicago, IL

Posted by
21 posts

Hi, I'm from Manchester and lived in Edinburgh and much of my family now lives in Cumbria. Unfortunately I can't help you too much with B&B recs for Edinburgh, but you should narrow down your search by deciding which part of town you want to be in - Old Town (medieval) or New Town (Georgian - it's old now!). They have very different vibes.

Durham to the Lake District looks short on a map but it's going to be pretty slow - and very pretty - on A roads. There is a scenic route over the moors, I'll need to ask my friend who is from Co Durham the best way to go. I'd recommend you spend half a day doing the drive and enjoying it, rather than simply zipping from A to B.

Lake District - it can get very crowded with day trippers on a weekend, especially around Windermere/Ambleside/Grasmere. If you want peace and quiet, pick somewhere a little off the beaten track. The south end of Windermere (the lake) is nice. Kentmere is beautiful but a bit remote, perhaps. The roads round this area are very narrow and lined by stone walls so take your time. I'm sure other folks who've visited from the US will have more concrete recommendations! We always stay at the pub/hotel/restaurant my brother & SIL run - the George Hotel in a village called Orton. It's just outside the Lake District, in fact it's now in part of the Yorkshire Dales National Park.

The drive to Manchester from the Lakes is down the M6 and then a network of multiple motorways (something like M6/61/60/62....). The airport is pretty well signposted but make sure you have UP-TO-DATE satnav because the names of all these interlinking motorways changed a few years ago. I highly recommend staying at an airport hotel the night before your flight because it would be too stressful making the drive in the morning and worrying about making it. And avoid rush hour on those motorways if you can!!

Posted by
2948 posts

How about this itinerary instead. Take a direct train (check www.bahn.com) from the Manchester airport to York (2h) and sleep there for two nights before taking a direct train to Edinburgh (2h 30m). From Edinburgh (ED'n-burah) take a direct, 2h train to Durham and spend the night before picking up your rental car.

Posted by
1446 posts

If you have done the DNA on Ancestry and use their tree you will soon have the home towns of your relatives. Find a Grave is a great resource, too. There are bed & breakfast everywhere. If you are off the tourist trail you may be able to find really nice ones without reservations. Stay in Chester the first night after your flight...it is very pleasant walled city.

Posted by
6113 posts

Although York is olde worlde twee and Manchester is Victorian, I wouldn’t want to get on a train for 2 hours after a long flight. It’s like RS’s advice to get off a plane at Heathrow and head straight to Bath. Plus Northern Rail are prone to delays and cancellations. Use nationalrail.co.uk for all UK train queries. If you are prepared for a train journey after your flight, take a direct train from Manchester airport to Durham - it’s under 3 hours.

Remember that 2 nights somewhere is only one full day there. Are your flights booked or can you fly into Edinburgh and out from Manchester?

There is a Bank Holiday 25 May in the U.K. plus the last week of May is school holidays, when places will be busier and more expensive, so book asap.

I prefer the western end of the Lake District such as Eskdale if you want walking rather than roads clogged up with other tourists. I would avoid the Lake District over the Bank Holiday weekend.

If time permits near Durham, the Beamish Museum is a fantastic day out, but it would fill your day.

York- Durham- Lake District could easily fill your 9 nights without being rushed if you wanted to keep Edinburgh for a future Scottish trip.

Posted by
1279 posts

Hi Ryan and Erika -

I suppose it depends on what time your flight lands at Manchester. If it’s still early enough to make a train journey of around 4-5 hours you can get a direct to Edinburgh train via Transpennine Express from the airport station - the services are fairly frequent, some involve one change of train. Tickets for late May do not appear to be on sale yet - check out www.tpexpress.co.uk. These trains I believe call at both York and Durham. They also get pretty busy, so when booking tickets if you can tie down a timed train, make sure you reserve seats. The good news is Transpennine has just introduced swishy new rolling stock onto their routes, so hopefully a brand new train!

If your flight lands late in the day at Manchester and an overnight stop is in order, we have stayed a couple of times at the Clayton House Hotel which is right above the station. However having walked there from the station I would say avoid that, because the area is full of high speed roads with no pathway for the most part. Instead head for the railway station. If memory serves you’ll come through a covered walkway and descend towards the platforms. Before the escalator/steps to the platform there’s an exit to the right as you approach and on the wall to the left of the doors is a courtesy phone to summon the hotels free courtesy bus. The phone works for all the hotels on the airport site and the numbers are posted adjacent. The bus will drop you back there next morning. The Clayton House is nothing special, maybe even getting a wee bit tired, but the prices are reasonable (I got a deal via booking.com) and it is handily situated. Make sure you carry a paper confirmation of your booking - the front desk had the date of our stay wrong and the paper confirmation was very useful in easily displaying that they had indeed fouled up. We were accommodated with no problem and we didn’t have to get snotty with them.

The sooner you book your Lake District accommodation the better, if you haven’t done so already. It gets very busy in the summer months everywhere. I always recommend a stay in Coniston as it is off the beaten track a little but is still in the heart of the (southern) lakes and has lots of choice, comparatively. Keswick remains a good base but gets incredibly busy and parking is an absolute nightmare especially in the streets around the myriad B&Bs. Avoid the honeypots of Windermere, Bowness and Ambleside if possible (although some years back we stayed at the Drunken Duck pub in the hills above Ambleside and that was rather nice if off the beaten track, can’t fully recommend as it has been quite a while since we were there) and to a lesser extent, Grasmere. I believe there is a website for farm B&B’s - I’m not sure of the address, maybe another forum reader can enlighten us.

For cultural events in the Lakes look under ‘agricultural shows’ - these take place through spring to early summer throughout northern England. Also if near enough to Keswick, check out the programme at The Theatre on the Lake. I think you might well miss the Keswick Mountain Festival which I think is in the first two weeks of May. The Brewery Arts Centre in Kendal is also worth checking out for musical events.

Have you got specific towns or places of interest from you genealogy research? My wife has spent a lot of time researching hers and has spent quite some time in the very small, lesser towns and villages of Northern England in search of her forebears!

Have a great trip!

Ian

Posted by
7661 posts

We spent two nights in Durham and loved that city. The downtown area, very historical was our focus. The ancient Cathedral was wonderful. The Venerable Bede is buried in that Cathedral. I think we stayed at the nearby Marriott.

The Lake District is very scenic and great for outdoor actives like Hiking.

Posted by
1325 posts

That’s an awful lot of moving around for a short stay, I did 4 UK cities in 2 weeks all by train last year and thought it was too much.

I assume there’s still a lot of construction going on in Manchester City centre so I’d try to return the car elsewhere, the city centre isn’t exactly a joy to drive in without construction anyway.

Durham is amazing, my serious mistake last year was trying to do Newcastle and Durham in 2.5 days last year and of course got non stop rain. Durham Cathedral is amazing and they do allow photography now, a recent change so guidebooks may be out of date.

Manchester is getting seriously shorted, are you using it just as an arrival and departure city? If so, I’d look at flying to Edinburgh instead.

The Lake District seems like the outlier. It seems you’re hiring the car and then driving there from Durham, so day 1 would be limited there.

It’s your trip, but I’d look to cut something or else add more time to the trip.

25 May is a bank holiday, may affect train travel that weekend.

Posted by
21 posts

Great point about the Bank Holiday and school holidays.... the Lake District gets VERY busy during these times. If you can avoid being in the Lakes during that week, do so.
It sounded like you were planning to travel to Edinburgh and then to Durham by train - v sensible. Make sure you book those trains - and your specific seats - in advance. IMHO, it's worth splashing out the extra money for 1st class on the train. It's a MUCH more pleasant experience.
If you are planning some sightseeing in Manchester, I'd recommend the Science Museum. Or if you're lucky and it's a nice day, just wander around near the Town Hall square.
Let us know if you have more questions.... I'll try to find that recommended route from Durham to the Lakes. ;)

Posted by
223 posts

I don’t think you need two days in Durham, unless you’re planning to venture out to somewhere nearby on one of those days. It’s not a huge city and can easily be explored in a day.

Posted by
10 posts

Wow, so many helpful tips! Much appreciated. We're also of the opinion that we don't want to be moving around a great deal, but we'd like to at least keep Edinburgh, Durham and the Lake District on our itinerary.

We've already booked the flights - in and out of Manchester - but not yet the accommodations nor transportation within. We arrive on Tuesday, May 19th at about 730am, and fly back to Chicago leaving Manchester at 830am on Thursday, May 28th. Surely, we can comfortably fit those three areas - Edinburgh, Durham and the Lake District - in those 9 days; we're seeking both the cultural and pulsating vibe of a big city coupled with a few restful days hiking in the hills and country. We may scrap seeing much of Manchester - we thought we'd stay our first and last nights there - but we know for sure we want to stay there, and near the airport, on our last night.

Posted by
1325 posts

9 days is tight with that moving around.

Fly into Manchester, stay one night, check in and out of hotel and make sure you’re at the train station in time for the train to Edinburgh, travel time time to Edinburgh and then travel time to hotel for check in

Same thing after Edinburgh, packing, getting to the train, train to Durham, get to hotel and check in.

Then, hire car in Durham drive to Lake District. The drive to Manchester airport, drop off car.. check into airport hotel, take train into city centre if you want to do anything that last day.

It’s your trip, but so much time gets sucked up just moving around.

Also, if you’re taking that MAN to PHL flight connecting to Chicago, bring some entertainment. The flight I was on in May was a plane right out of 1992 with no in flight entertainment and just drop down screens for a couple of movies. Normally when I return back to the USA, I use that time to catch up on some of the Oscar bait films, I’m way too excited on the way over to focus on anything serious.

Posted by
14980 posts

I was in the Lake District on last year's May bank holiday weekend. (A mistake on my part.) It was crowded but doable. Don't wait to make your hotel reservations. (I stayed in Keswick.)

As for Manchester, I spend a great deal of time there and left just a few weeks ago. The walk from the furthest terminal to airport train station can be long-or seem that way--but it is the easiest way to get into town.

If you are only spending one night in Manchester, stay near Piccadilly Station. It will make your life easier.

While in Keswick, you could go to the Pencil Museum. Then you too can leave, like I did, thinking "Wow, there's 20 minutes and 5 pounds I'll never get back."

Posted by
10 posts

Thank you all again! I can't believe all the replies with wonderful suggestions and cautionary advice. Indeed, we've pared down our original stays from 5 locations to 3 (over 9 days....yes, that would be a lot of packing, traveling, and unpacking).

So, think I've figured it out a pretty sound revision: :

  • We land on Tuesday morning, May 19th, at 0730 in Manchester. Rather than staying there for the night, we'll catch a train to Edinburgh (there seems to be a plethora of them), and stay in Edinburgh for FOUR nights. I would assume 3 full days to explore that city should be sufficient.
    • We'll then take a train on Saturday, May 23rd, down to Durham and stay (somewhere around there) for THREE nights. Durham will be our base to explore the city, and least for a day, but we're thinking of renting a car and taking side trips to nearby North Pennines national park/UNESCO site, Hadrian's Wall, and possibly a long day trip south to York. Seems doable over 3 days?
    • We'll then ditch the car (I think) in Durham, and take a train to Manchester on Tuesday, May 26th, for our final TWO nights. I would assume that would allow at least one full day to explore that city.
    • We flight out about 0830 on Thursday morning, May 28th.

Feasible?

Posted by
27104 posts

Your timing is good, because tickets for the Manchester-Edinburgh train leg aren't available yet; that should happen soon. That matters because walk-up fares on UK trains are among the highest in Europe, but Advance tickets (which often have to be grabbed really early) can be super bargains. The tricky thing here is deciding what departure time to gamble on. And you will be gambling, because as we all know, flights can be delayed or canceled. I have no experience with the Manchester airport, but perhaps we have a few people who've been through Immigration there and care to guess.

The best I can tell from the NationalRail website, the walk-up fare to Edinburgh can be up to £127 (per person, one way) or £84 off-peak (and I think a prudent departure time for you would be clearly within the off-peak period). Advance tickets (which can sell out rapidly once available for your date) seem to range from £22 to £27.

To take a look yourself, use May 12 as the departure date; that's the latest Tuesday for which tickets are on sale. Then, after you figure out how much time to allow at the airport before stepping on a train and May 19 goes on sale, buy as soon as you are totally confident of your plans.

Posted by
2506 posts

A couple of comments

TP Express, the train operator between Manchester and Edinburgh, have Advance ticket that allow you to take the next train (up to three hours) if your incoming flight is delayed. https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/special-offers/manchester-airport

I would hire a car at Edinburgh airport and return it at Manchester airport. You’ll get a bigger choice of car rental companies, plus you can stay out in the countryside if you want.

Posted by
10 posts

Great advice and thank you so much! I'll keep an eye on the TP Rail tickets every few days and jump on it as they become available for 19 May. That is a substantial savings v the walk-up purchase. Whew!

Ditto on hiring a car. Probably wiser to pick up in Edinburgh (as we prepare to leave for Durham) and drop in Manchester near the end of our journey.

I'm a big fan of this forum. So much excellent advice!

Posted by
2948 posts

Hi ramblin’ on is it economical to rent a car in Scotland and return it in England or is it similar to the states and mainland Europe where it costs lots more to rent a car in one state and return in another?

Posted by
7661 posts

r morrison 99,
Durham is a one day visit, so perhaps two nights. I would not skip York. York is amazing. Durham's Cathedral is great, but York's is AMAZING. Also, there is a lot more to see in York.
I would not do Hadrian's Wall on a day trip from Durham or York. Why not visit Durham then drive to York and stop at the wall on the way?

Posted by
2506 posts

MaryPat

There are no cross border charges for renting a car in Scotland and returning it in England as both countries are part of the United Kingdom. Whether there is a higher price for returning a car to a different location would depend on the car hire company.

Hope that helps.

Posted by
10 posts

Thank you, geovagriffith, for your advice on Durham/York, as well as Hadrian's Wall. My wife and I have decided that when we leave Edinburgh, and renting a car, we're going to stop at Hadrian's Wall en route south to Durham. Makes the most sense rather than backtracking.

We chose Durham for a variety of reasons - the cathedral, castle, market, etc. - but also because we wanted a relatively lesser touristed area for a few nights on our journey. We've already purchased our hotel in Durham for 3 nights.

That said, we're going to take a nice long day trip to York. Definitely want to see the wall and the castle for sure.

Looking forward to it!

Posted by
10 posts

Also wanted to thank several folks who've given us advice of the trains/ticketing/etc.

We had been closely watching the scheduling for when tickets go on sale for Manchester to Edinburgh.
Just this past Tuesday, we saw that our date - May 19th - got posted. We indeed found good one-way fares for around 60 GBP for the two of us.

Again, we appreciate ALL the excellent suggestions and advice!