National Rail vs Over/Underground

You can do contactless, even Oyster on some National Rail routes - for that matter the Overground legally is a National Rail service, as is the Elizabeth line.

For the above just 2 and 5 can only be done with tickets. 4 depends on the routing currently - contactless possible via Paddington / Slough but not Waterloo. 1 should be Watford Junction.

You can also use contactless from Gatwick.

Even of those requiring tickets none needs to be booked in advance- they are all turn up on the day.

Salisbury will be quite a lot cheaper on 'advance tickets' but then you are restricted to specified trains. That is not too bad on the way out, but is restrictive on the way back if you suddenly want to spend more time. Advance fares are available until the night before travel.

Likewise Bletchley Park- advance fares are available but trains are so frequent that it would be silly to be tied to a specific one.

Watford North is technically the closest station to the Harry Potter studio, but the much bigger Watford Junction station is where the bus connections run from.

For Gatwick just buy on the day, no real point to booking in advance.

Awesome, thanks!

Right, Watford Junction for Harry Potter.

Is the general rule of thumb that if the route is within the London zones then contactless is fine even on National Rail lines. And anything outside of these zones require a separate ticket from the National Rail?

Coming from the US, we've got decent subway systems in some of the larger cities but outside of the northeast corridor the national rail (Amtrak) is pretty sparse and not regularly used by most people so this is all a bit new to me.

Edited: For Salisbury our current plan is to buy a timed ticket for the outbound leg but have an open return ticket to allow for more time around town if we need it. It's a bit more expensive but worth it to not be rushed to catch a return train.

Is the general rule of thumb that if the route is within the London zones then contactless is fine even on National Rail lines. And anything outside of these zones require a separate ticket from the National Rail?

Basically yes, and London has 9 fare zones, although most people rarely go into Zones 7 to 9. Watford Junction is an exception even to that rule as it is beyond Zone 9.

This is the detailed map of where contactless (and Oyster is valid). There are some differences on outer boundaries for Oyster and Contactless.

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/7wGQdIQpJhexRBkxz1qLK4/e43cd0a5440959f31b4aada32aa17d0c/London_Rail_Tube_Map_May_2023.pdf

There is no completely general rule, although there are no exceptions any more within Zones 1-6.

For example contactless payments are accepted all the way to Reading on both the Elizabeth line & GWR services. Contactless is to be extended to more National Rail services progressively over the next few years.

People do over travel the boundaries - there are often ticket checks on the trains to Oxford because it isn't allowed that far. It is then the passenger's job to get the tap cancelled. Presently it seems regular tickets are then sold rather than anything more punitive.

A little tidy-up on the terminology.

If you look at a London Underground map you will see that all the lines are named, and to keep them followable on the map they have all been assigned a colour for clarity. We use the names of the lines - District. Piccadilly, Northern etc. rather than the colours - green, dark blue, black. These are what are commonly called tube trains because of the shape of the deep bored tunnels, even though for the majority of their journey they are above ground. They only dive underground in central London but they are still called the London Underground or tube.

As you look at the map you will also see two more colours - orange and light purple. Orange is for the Overground. Overground is a relatively new renaming of various inner and greater London suburban and urban train lines after they were glommed together when they were handed over to Transport for London, the same gang who run the Underground and buses, to distinguish them from the Underground. Tourists very very rarely use them. The only very rare time a tourist might want one is if no mainline trains from Euston (London Northwestern) are running because of strikes or operational incidents or the line is shut for engineering works. Then a tourist might take the really slow Overground all stops train to Watford Junction.

Light purple is the brand new and now most used train line in the country, the Elizabeth Line. Although appearing on the TfL tube map it is not an Underground train it is a main line train.

So, so far we have Underground and Overground.

Then we have what are generally referred to as trains, mainline trains, heavy rail, or by the company running them such as Avanti West Coast, South West Trains, East Midlands Trains, London Northwestern Trains, and so on. They go between towns and cities all over the country.

Some mainline trains accept Oyster for part of the route, such as London Northwestern accepts it from Euston to Watford Junction but no further.

So your principles were fine, just needed a little tidy-up on the wording. Happy travels

You can use a contactless card to pay for journeys from both Gatwick and Heathrow and for your trips to Watford Junction, Hampton Court and Windsor*. For Salisbury and Bletchley you need to buy tickets.

• You can use contactless to get to Windsor from Paddington station but not from Waterloo. The former is also quicker despite the need to change trains at Slough but if you are staying nearer Waterloo then it would probably be more sensible to take the train from there and for that you need tickets. Note that, rather confusingly, you can use Oyster instead of contactless interchangeably for all the above except the train from Paddington to Windsor.

Overground is a relatively new renaming of various inner and greater London suburban and urban train lines after they were glommed together when they were handed over to Transport for London, the same gang who run the Underground and buses, to distinguish them from the Underground.

By the end of 2024 the 6 Overground Lines are each to be given their own names- like the Underground Lines. It is currently undecided if this means that they are to each be assigned a new colour, or if they will still all be orange.

The 6 Lines are-
Stratford to Richmond/Clapham Junction   

Euston to Watford Junction   

Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside  

Liverpool Street to Cheshunt/Enfield Town/Chingford  

Highbury & Islington to New Cross/Crystal Palace/West Croydon/Clapham Junction   

Romford to Upminster

The Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside line has always colloquially been known as the GOBLIN line- it will be interesting to see if that is it's officially assigned name in due course (Gospel Oak Barking Line)- it has only recently been extended from Barking to the new development at Barking Riverside.

It is also worth adding that you can still purchase physical tickets for all London rail journeys- you do not HAVE to use contactless or Oyster.

Nigel's lucid explanation prompts a few footnotes.
TFL is Transport for London and its website will help you plan your commutes within the London region. It is good on alternatives, from foot travel on up, and helpful about fares. Google Maps covers some of the same concerns if you want to double-check.

https://tfl.gov.uk/https://tfl.gov.uk/

Any trip that takes you outside London on the various "train" companies can be researched on www.seat61.com, one of the few resources that challenges Nigel's familiarity with transport.

Wouldn’t use the verb challenges.

I’d say compliments.

Nigel’s familiarity is because his career was as a train conductor.