Morning traffic into London

Is morning traffic into London quite bad?

That is a hard yes. This is the biggest city in Western Europe.

Rush hour traffic in London is pretty bad. I’d return the car somewhere else. Oxford traffic isn’t great either. I’d suggest returning it to Reading.

Are you thinking of using the car for your London days as well? I'd skip the car while you're in London and pick it up in a place like Oxford or Reading to use only on the days you'll be in the Cotswolds.

I agree about the morning traffic into London, not something to do by choice. However, you need to check exactly where the car hire place in Oxford is, as Oxford has recently started a new traffic control system that sounds quite draconian - perhaps the hire place could explain things.

My preference would be to return a car at Heathrow LATER in the morning when rush hour is over so that you don’t get caught up in the traffic around Heathrow which can be awful in rush hour. You could then take the Elizabeth or Piccadilly line to Kings Cross for your train to Edinburgh.

Paddington isn't the worst because you're already right next to The Westway (A40) but it has the potential to be a bit of a slog on both the way out and in. Lots of people do come into London from the west and deal with the traffic, but renting a car elsewhere is probably more sensible.

Is morning traffic into London quite bad?

I rented a car in England in 1996, and drove into London early one morning to return a rental car. I got there around 6 am, figuring that there shouldn't be any congestion. Ha! I was SO wrong. I couldn't believe how much traffic there was at 6 am. And this was almost 30 years ago. It was a nightmare trying to maneuver through traffic and figure out where I was going. I swore then and there that I would never drive in London again. :-)

Thanks all. The car is just for getting around the Cotswolds (not for my time in London itself). What time does traffic start to die down in the mornings? I'll look into Reading.

For me there is no point in going in the wrong direction into London when you to get to Edinburgh. Some alternatives, depending where exactly you will be:-

Drive north to Birmingham airport to catch a train from Birmingham international.

West to Cheltenham for a train.

South west to Bristol airport and fly.

FWIW, I like renting from Arnold Clark, either directly or through an agent called Celtic Legend. I've used Arnold Clark on my last two trips to the UK. Earlier this year I rented directly with AC (17 day rental) and then in 2023, I rented from them through their broker, Celtic Legend (14 day rental) for my trip to Scotland. Both rental experiences went very well. Arnold Clark is a pleasure to deal with. Their agents explain everything to you and make sure that you understand the fine print. They are good about upgrading sometimes, and very courteous and helpful. I will always use them in the UK for future rentals. I do know they have a location near Heathrow, but nothing closer to town.

https://www.arnoldclarkrental.com/
https://www.celticlegend.co.uk/car-rental/

Or rent and return from Oxford, then train from there to Edinburgh changing at Birmingham.. By the time you have added on the time into London then across town to Kings Cross, or into Heathrow then an hour from Heathrow to Kings Cross it works out the same time.
Or the Cotswolds are a big place. Rent and return to Cheltenham on the west side of the Cotswolds then direct trains to Edinburgh from Cheltenham.

Central London traffic clears a bit 9:30 or 10am, but you could probably still expect to be in some queuing traffic on the A40 into London all day during business hours. It just depends how zen you are about creeping along for while (I don't mind that much as long as I'm expecting it) and how convenient it is to pick up in London. John noted some other good options above.

Good point @Johnew52. I'll be staying in Bourton-on-the-Water, so makes sense to go north. I just had my mind set on taking the high speed train from London, without thinking of other possibilities. Cheers

Since it's the weekend, we're talking about the A40, and I'm a nerd for London locations in music videos, one of my all time favourites has some great shots. The first verse is sung in a Cadillac Eldorado on The Westway and the outro coda has the whole band, seemingly making their escape after "breaking the law" by going in the same direction on the same bit of road again.

Judas Priest - Breaking The Law - https://youtu.be/L397TWLwrUU?si=1NAZ9bf7BQBTtbK9

@GerryM looks like an easy drive! lol

The roads were a lot quieter in 1980! You can see from how low the sun is in the sky that it was shot at the crack of dawn too. Traffic wouldn't be half as bad on a Sunday morning either, possibly when this was shot.

Whilst the trains from King’s Cross are a bit faster it’s not a high speed line like the Eurostar or lines in France or Spain. From Bourton it doesn’t make any sense to drive into London.
Another alternative would be to take the train to Banbury and hire from Enterprise there and then take it back for a train north. You could do the same from Oxford but then you have the problem of driving into the city at rush hour, which is definitely to be avoided.

The LNER trains are the fastest way to get from London to Edinburgh, but going to London is a lot of backtracking. You should be concerned with the fastest way to get from Bourton-on-the-Water to Edinburgh, and you're not far from Cheltenham where you can catch a direct train to Edinburgh. I don't know if you can return the car there though, and it means you travel to Scotland with CrossCountry. Another option is to drive to Birmingham airport. It's a longer drive than Cheltenhamn but you should be able to return the car there and you can catch an Avanti West Coast direct train to Edinburgh at the airport.

Enterprise, Avis and Hertz all have offices in Cheltenham.

Thanks isn31c! In that case that sounds like the easiest option. Although I'm not too fond of Cross Country. But I've only used them on shorter trips and maybe their long distance trains are better?

Cross Country have had a large number of the old Avanti voyagers cascaded to them late last year, so now have more train cars, allowing busy services to be doubled in length.
Personally I am not a fan of the new LNER train cars (the 80x trains to be technical) but if that's the route people want to travel so be it. For me personally the refurbished Avanti Pendolinos are way, way better than LNER's trains.
Last summer I learnt a bit by trial and error as to how to use Cross Country for long distance journeys. Now I live on the West Coast (so am biased towards my own journeys) but I don't believe there is any real time difference between staying on Cross Country through Yorkshire to Edinburgh or changing to the West Coast (Avanti) at either the rebuilt Wolverhampton (in preference to Birmingham New Street) or Stafford.
What I have found (empirically, not scientifically) is that the Cross Country trains which start at Bristol are less well used than those from Devon or Cornwall.
So I personally like choosing a Bristol to Manchester train, and changing at Stafford for the north. I use Stafford because of the nice park with a rather good cafe outside the station (if I have spare time) and there is a close by store to stock up on picnic supplies.

Most of these journeys for me are at the end of a 40+ hour travelling day, so I am usually exhausted by that stage- to me my route is the easiest when I can relax.

a couple of thoughts -

I think most here presume that you are thinking of driving around the >north< Cotswolds - areas around Stow on the Wold, Bourton on the Water, Stanway, Bibury, Hidcote Gardens, Chipping Campden, that sort of area. Is that right? There is a whole 'nuther bunch of Cotswolds further south, nearly to Bath.

What were you considering? Do you have plans for where you'd like to stay? (see edit below)

If you look at the London Congestion Zone Charge map https://content.tfl.gov.uk/congestion-charge-zone-map.pdf you'll see that Paddington is right on the edge of an expensive charge. The Westway is no picnic either. 40 mph with cameras. It is important for everyone's safety on that stretch of elevated roadway. Lanes are narrow and it is VERY busy all the time. Being on the A40 is a good place to be to get to Oxford and beyond into the Cotswolds but after the Westway ends you are back on London streets with low speed limits, very narrow lanes (3 crammed into the space for 2 and a bit), traffic lights, traffic light cameras and traffic almost all the way to the M25. Don't be tempted to put your foot down when it clears to the Motorway - it takes some time and there are cameras all the way to the derestriction sign which finally allows 70 mph. Enjoy your view of the Hoover Building as you pass it.

If you had gone to the Heathrow rentals you come out on the M4, and you then go north on the M25 to the M40 and onwards. If the M25 is its usual thrilling self you can stay on the M4 a little longer and head up to the M40 by the A404(M).

That would be my suggestion, to rent at Heathrow, then against the traffic to the place you are going in the Cotswolds, (ask me for advice, towns and villages, not hotels, I know it well, from when I was knee high to a grasshopper until now) and at the end return the car at Birmingham International Airport, easy weatherproof transport from the station and NEC into the airport and v.v.

Grab an Avanti train northbound from Birmingham International, you will beat the crowds at Birmingham New Street unless you want to go upstairs there for lunch at the dozens of choices - but I expect you will have luggage?.

West Coast travel north for you on this trip and then get an LNER or LUMO southbound to Kings Cross on the way back.

Despite Cross Country having been cascaded a few more trains I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Their Voyager and Super Voyager (class 220 and class 221) diesel trains are noisy, cramped and perpetually overcrowded (Stuart will say I am wrong perhaps). I particularly dislike that many windows do not line up with the seats, and the continuous diesel underfloor vibration gets on my nerves.

I say go under the wires on the Avanti West Coast tilting trains.

-EDIT- looking back I see that you are staying in Bourton on the Water. Make sure that your lodging gives you the lowdown on their parking. It can get a wee bit crowded. Manageable but crowded. Bourton on the Water is right off the ancient Roman Fosseway (which accounts for its relative straightness in a country where straight secondary roads are rare as hens' teeth). Loads to do in and around there, Getting to Cheltenham on the A40 is no fun, I wouldn't recommend it as a route north. Cheltenham has an "imaginative" one-way scheme which causes newbies to pull out their hair... My Dad was born there and we have family or I wouldn't go into Cheltenham with a car.

I wouldn’t recommend driving into central London. The roads are always busy, the lanes are confusing, there are lots of rules about box junctions, bus lanes, no right turns etc etc and even using Google maps it’s very easy to make a mistake and end up in a right pickle. Other drivers are impatient and pushy - you’ll get beeped if you hesitate at lights for a millisecond.

Thanks for the update Nigel and isn31c! Good to hear that CrossCountry has recieved more trains, but the Voyagers are not that great in my opinion. They are fine for a short journey but I would not want to travel on them for many hours. I thought that the trains to Edinburgh might be operated by HSTs, but is seems like those are history.

I thought that the trains to Edinburgh might be operated by HSTs, but is seems like those are history.

From Cross Country the HST's went several years ago. They only survive with Scotrail, and GWR (and they have been 'withdrawn' several times by GWR- short formed now as Castle Class sets on GWR on regional trains), also (as recent exports) in Mexico and Nigeria, plus a couple of engineers trains.

What most of us agree on is to avoid returning to London (even with the one way drop fee) and by some route or another go north from the Cotswolds and get on the West Coast route ASAP. There are a number of permutations on how to do that. And yes no-one wants you to be on Cross Country all the way to EDI. Beyond that there are nuances of opinion, and there are ways of getting quieter trains on XC south of the West Midlands.
One annoyance of XC is you can reserve seats until 5 minutes before travel. So you can find a vacant seat from say Bristol. By Cheltenham someone has nabbed it from you. You can of course play the same game and get the Guard/Senior Conductor (whatever XC call them) to block out that vacant seat for you using his hand held device.

There are so many UK train types with non-aligned window seats I don't notice if the Voyagers are worse or better in that regard.

When East-West Rail opens sometime this year (whenever exactly that happens, my guess is May) another possible route will be Oxford to Milton Keynes, then the 1052 Avanti train direct from Milton Keynes to Edinburgh.

Having said that there are all the usual rental agencies at MK, including it seems Arnold Clark. Now whether Nigel thinks driving into MK (especially from Bourton) is a bright idea I don't know. May or may not make sense for others from say Moreton in Marsh. No idea.

I don't know where rental agencies are in Milton Keynes (known locally as The Keynes). There is an Enterprise across the road from Bletchley station next to Bletchley Park, but in all the years I've worked at Milton Keynes Central station (there are 3 stations in the Keynes on the main line, the aforementioned Bletchley and also Wolverton, hence the grandiose naming of MKC). I have never seen a car desk either in the station building or in the adjacent shops.

I'd probably not suggest driving from Bourton on the Water (best to give the whole name as there is also Bourton on the Hill near Moreton in Marsh a few miles away... names in the Cotswolds are best spelled out because of all the near duplicates) to Milton Keynes Central because of the road pattern in Milton Keynes. The city (now, just made a city) is laid out on a grid system with named arterial roads also given H or V numbers which is extremely confusing to newbies. Also that almost all arterial roads are 70 mph for maybe a quarter or half of a mile then piling on the brakes because all junctions are high speed roundabouts with dual carriageways. If not familiar with high speed roundabouts they are not for the feint hearted, and because most residents are related to London overspill projects they drive like Londoners, little patience and to have one of them steaming around the roundabout at you even if you have the right of way (if you are fast) can be a little unnerving.

Not a place for roundabout newbies, and not for folks not sure of where they are going. There is a terrific amount of slowing down and speeding up.

And to say that I have a fair degree of certainty that getting to Birmingham International (all Avanti trains stop there on their way into Birmingham New Street) from Bourton on the Water would be faster.. Fosseway to Stratford upon Avon, A46 to the M40 to M42 to the airport - Bob's Your Uncle.

The 10.52 Avanti train from Milton Keynes will leave Birmingham International at 11.38, getting to Edinburgh at 16.18. That would seem a sensible option.

Or you could go with my earlier suggestion of hiring the car and returning it to Banbury. Then take the 10.59 train from there and change at Birmingham New St on to the train above. You would avoid the one way hire charge but need to change trains at what is not the easiest station.

With the OP being an Aussie they already have a bit of head start with the driving. UK driving is more similar to Australian than US I think.

Personally, I've got on OK with London driving. It takes a bit of patience with traffic, keeping an eye out for cyclists etc on your inside and Helen's tip to watch out for box junctions is a good one. I did a commute from Hamilton to Glasgow every day for years, so I was used to a bit of traffic before I moved down here. It's just driving same as anywhere else. It's six or seven years since I've owned a car because I didn't need one, though I would still like to have a car as a hobby like I used to at some point.

I’ve driven quite a bit in London too and in residential areas it’s just the same as any other city. Most people who live in London wouldn’t contemplate driving to Paddington station unless they lived pretty nearby. It’s not going to be a pleasant journey.

Thanks for all the detailed replies. I think I've done about a hundred different searches for different routes and options. At this point I'm ready to hire a private driver.. haha. Returning a car to a different location seems to add a significant cost, so I will try to avoid if possible. What are your thoughts on getting the train to Gloucester and hiring and returning a car from there? They have a Europcar although not super close to the station. Currently I have booked 4 nights in Bourton on the Water, so planning to do all over the Cotswolds - but I am also thinking of changing it to spend the 1st night in the south of Wales. So perhaps Gloucester would be convenient..? Then from there, take the train to Edinburgh changing at Birmingham.

That would be perfectly fine Celia.

Gloucester suits me. Looking at a map it seems to be straight out of the rental yard onto the highway, so no obvious issues.

All but one of the trains from Gloucester to Birmingham is a Class 170 turbostar (so not a Voyager)- and on the Turbostars the windows actually do align with the seating. And better toilets as well. There is supposed to be an ongoing mid life refurb as a lot of the sets were very tired internally (as in worn). I have no idea how that refurb programme is ongoing.

I quite like the Turbostars which do some very long routes. A nice, airy feeling train IMO.

The exception is the 1043 which is a 4+5 Voyager (so a good length 9 car) all the way to Edinburgh via the East Coast (the trains join at Birmingham), but gets in to EDI 45 minutes later than changing to Avanti at Birmingham. The 4 car set actually starts at Penzance in Cornwall so it makes a long old journey.