Mid to South England Itinerary Help

if your first night will be in York have you considered landing in Manchester?

Given that Hadrian’s Wall is about as far north as you can get in England I’m not sure that you can describe it as mid England.

The thing that surprises many visitors to the UK from North America is that we are a small country with a great deal of history. So I could easily list a number of wonderful sights, museums, historic towns, cities and national parks around and between York and Bath, most of which would in my view beat the other places you list on your plan.

It’s fairly obvious that you have looked at Rick’s book, which in truth really only covers the places his tours go to and maybe misses out more than it covers. For example, the book doesn’t mention Manchester at all - the world’s first industrial city and a place full of interest for a visitor. Or you could go to the Royal Armouries Museum in Leeds, Saltaire near Bradford, Chatsworth, probably the best stately home in the country and the Peak District National Park where Chatsworth is. Or there are another two national parks near York and one near Hadrian’s Wall. And we haven’t got more than 90 minutes or so from York and I’m sure we could add other places I haven’t mentioned.

You say that your trip is mostly WW2 based but none of the places you have listed have any real connection with WW2 apart from maybe Portsmouth.

As already mentioned, there is nothing WWII in your itinerary. The Dover tunnels, Bletchley Park, and IWM Duxford have WWII connections. We had a rental car when we visited some war sites and I was fortunate to be able to visit the airfield my father’s squadron was based at during the war on that visit. It’s near Uppingham. There’s also a small Glenn Miller museum in the old airfield control tower in Clapham.

There are plenty of sites to visit, so it comes down to what you want to visit and how easy the sites are to reach using public transportation. If you make it the the Portsmouth dockyard, one can spend the better part of a day there. As I like to mention, don’t underestimate how long you’ll spend visiting places and the time it will take to get to them.

Do you prefer museums or actual historical sites or a bit of both?

To be honest, Bath is Georgian and was developed as a spa town. It’s doesn’t have the rich history of some other places. It’s not somewhere where important world events took place. Yes it’s pretty and the Roman Baths are interesting but beyond that I think there are better places for history buffs.

Have you come across the Cold War Bunker in York?

York has lots of history. Walk around the walls and go and find the Multangular Tower (Roman) in the museum Gardens which have the ruins of St Mary's Abbey. Go for a walk along the Shambles the Shambles - ignore the tourist shops and enjoy walking along a medieval street with overhanging buildings. The cathedral is magnificent and do go and find Holy Trinity Church tucked away behind Goodramgate, still with its C17th box pews which are gently subsiding into the nave. There is Clifford's Tower too. Add on Barley Hall, one of the oldest timber frame buildings in York and once the home of the Mayor of York. Or there is the Treasurer's House, tucked away behind the Minster and lovingly restored by the wealthy C19th industrialist Frank Green to hold his collection of furniture and pictures. The timber frame Merchant Aventurers’ Hall dates from the C14th and is where the wealthy York merchants gathered to do business. It is the largest timber-framed building in the UK. There is the Castle Museum as well as the Yorkshire Museum - and don't forget the Railway museum...

One day is hardly enough to ev en begin to s cratch the surface of what York has to offer. Any chance of adding another day?

I think you have a few too many destinations spread out in all directions. A total of 15 days sounds like a lot of time, but relocating from place to place uses up time and energy. I'd also suggest limiting daytrips to places that can be reached fairly quickly and easily and that can be seen and enjoyed in less than a full day, such as a single historic building, museum, or a small town.

As an example, while you COULD see the Mary Rose in a day trip from London, I wouldn't recommend it. If you try to see that as a day trip, it is a minimum of 2 hours each way by rail from London. If you travel that far and enjoy history, you'd also want to fully explore the Portsmouth Historic Dockyard. My husband and I spent 2 days there. There is also the D-Day Story, the WWII museum in Portsmouth. I'd either plan Portsmouth as an overnight (or 2) or skip it as a destination.

When talking about Portsmouth and WW2 it is not often mentioned on here that there is also the Royal Navy Submarine Museum at Gosport (a very quick ferry ride over from Portsmouth Harbour Station). It includes HMS Alliance- the only surviving UK WW2 era Submarine- although she wasn't actually commissioned until after the end of the war, but building started during the war.
I'm assuming you intend to visit HMS Belfast (part of the IWM network of museums) while in London- she played a big part in WW2.

There is also the German submarine U534 at Woodside Ferry Terminal, Birkenhead {Liverpool] but she isn't currently open to visitors.

Thanks for all of the replies. THIS is the guidance for which I was searching.

Bath is certainly not necessary. He couldn't care less about the Roman baths, and I visited there years ago, so I'm happy to take that off the table.

He loves ALL history, which is why Hadrian's Wall and Avebury Stones/Stonehenge are on the list.

I am very interested in WWII museums and historical sites. I'd love to visit where my dad was stationed during the war, but he's long gone and I didn't have the good sense to ask.

In London I've planned the Churchill War Rooms, the Imperial War Museum, the Natl Maritime Museum, Bletchley Park in addition to churches and A&E, British Museum, etc.

I am adding a day in York, but still am looking for guidance between there and London. I have five days and would like no more than two stops, but if there is one location that would provide interesting sites and is in a good location for day trips (plan to buy BritRail pass) that would be ideal. I would like to visit Oxford for the Tolkien/Lewis connections, again for my son.

If you were to visit Texas, I would certainly recommend additional locations besides the Alamo ... I appreciate your insight and knowledge.

I think you could come up through Norfolk (maybe basing yourself in Norwich), then over through Kings Lynn to Peterborough and up to Lincoln for a day, on the way from London to York.

Apart from the normal scenic attractions of Norfolk the WW2 interest of course is the arrival in 1942 of 50,000 US servicemen of the US 8th Air Force who had 17 bases in the county. Ultimately 350,000 US servicemen served in East Anglia- of whom around 26,000 made the ultimate sacrifice.
There are various sites you can visit including Seething and Thorpe Abbots Control Towers, the 2nd Air Division Memorial Library at Norwich and Hethel Museum- home of the 389th Bomb Group.
The first mission from the County was deliberately on 4 July 1942.
But don't forget to sightsee as well including Sandringham House- the Norfolk home of the Royal Family.

And of course after the war all the GI brides.

And you can't pass through the area (with your interests) without visiting the American War Cemetery and Memorial at Cambridge- where 3,811 of the US war dead are buried and 5,127 names are recorded on the Walls of the Missing.

As a light conclusion the Christmas movie 'It's a Wonderful Life' which of course starred Jimmy Stewart- he had flown out of Old Buckenham and Tibenham airfields as Base Commander (leading his men into combat, even in daytime missions) before becoming Staff Officer at Ketteringham Hall.
You could travel to Norwich by train, but will need a car there to visit these sites- before continuing forward to Lincoln and York by train (via Cambridge for the War Cemetery).

Your son will fill many of the gaps in a very brief introduction above to the subject.

...but if there is one location that would provide interesting sites and is in a good location for day trips (plan to buy BritRail pass)

It would be prudent to do the math on the day trip travel, as many of the trips may be commuter runs that aren't worth expending a pass day for.

In London visit the Battle of Britain Bunker in Uxbridge (https://battleofbritainbunker.co.uk/). It is where the RAF organized the planes that flew during the Blitz, Dunkirk and D-Day.

The Cold War Bunker is York. It relates to preparations in the event that a nuclear bomb was dropped on England.

An alternative to Duxbridge is the midlands museum https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/midlands/. They have lots of interesting planes from many eras and are much better with the stories that go with them so take a tour. It is where I learned that Malta defended itself during WWII with by-planes..

Bletchly Park is worth a visit and needs a day. It can be done as a day trip from London by train. It is also about an hours drive from the Cotswolds.

If your interest is Churchill, focus on the Churchill War Tunnels in London with its Churchill Museum. Consider Chartwell House outside London. It has more to do with Churchill than Blenheim.

In York, walk the walls, visit the Minister, don't skip the Jorvik Museum, wander the streets. Easy to spend 2 to 3 days just in York.

Back in London, something quite unusual regarding WW2 which I have just been sent this evening-

https://www.vauxhallandkennington.org.uk/blitz_children.html

At least the bottom one is actually regarded by the IWM as a war memorial, and is a listed structure by English Heritage.

This is off the beaten path in all respects.

Another thought - when in York, plan a day trip to Malton Camp, a large and excellent Second World War-related museum in a former Second World War prisoner-of-war camp, There are exhibits in the huts as well as vehicles, aircraft, guns etc around the site. You can easily spend a full day here. It is a fascinating place.