We are in our mid-50's travelling July 2016; mostly in England, few days in N. Wales & in/around Edinburgh. We're from British Columbia; used to driving long distances to get anywhere (!), have done many long road trips often 8-10 hours a day of just driving time - we don't mind! We spent six weeks in Australia driving a manual. Please, I'm looking for tweaking any where except for Yorkshire. Thank you!
Fri., July 8 - arrive Manchester 10:20 am - friends pick us up; explore Skipton
Sat., July 9 - York and surrounds
Sun., July 10 - Yorkshire sights
Mon., July 11 - collect car early from Keighley; head to Lake District, 2.5 hrs. drive time; stay O/N in area - Keswick or Cockermouth?
Tues., July 12 – leave early, drive 3 hrs. to Doune (1-1.5 hrs. for visit) & Stirling (3 hrs. for visit); 15 min. drive between them, then 1 hr. to Edinburgh O/N. How is driving in Edinburgh?
Wed., July 13 - Edinburgh & O/N.
Thurs., July 14 - Edinburgh & O/N - visit Rosslyn Chapel 7 miles on bus (open 9:30-6:00).
Fri., July 15 - Leave Edinburgh early & drive 2 hrs. to Seahouses; catch Billy Shiel's cruise to Holy Island by 9:30; trip starts at 10:00 am - 4 hr. trip, back at 2 pm. Drive to Bamburgh (10 min.), tour castle; closes at 5 pm - 2 hrs. to visit. Drive 30 min. to Alnwick & stay O/N.
Sat., July 16 - Alnwick Castle (opens at 10:00; 3-4 hours for visit); then 1.25 hr. drive to Durham; cathedral open until 8 pm (1-2 hrs. for visit) - O/N.
Sun., July 17 - drive 30 min. to Newcastle, return car & fly to London (i.e. leave at 12 noon, 1.5 hr. flight or could leave later). Check in, London and O/N.
LONDON - flexible, depending on local advice, weather, timing, interests, etc. London sites & side trips to maybe Cambridge, Brighton, Hampton Court/Kew Gardens one day - travelling between the two via Thames, Rye looks like a lovely place, Hop on Hop off, Big Bus Tour includes Thames cruise, or Heritage Routemaster red bus, Thames boat tour, etc. ONE DAY - early morning train to Dover Castle to visit, train back to Canterbury Cathedral/Canterbury to explore, train back to London in evening & O/N.
Mon., July 18 - Fri., July 22 - London
Fri., July 22 - London - Store luggage at hotel for day; pick up luggage later; train/tube to Heathrow, Windsor, Eton area & O/N.
Sat., July 23 - Windsor Castle/Old Windsor/Eton. Get rental car this pm from Heathrow; to Winchester and O/N.
Sun., July 24 - Winchester am, then to Salisbury - O/N here.
Mon., July 25 - drive to Stonehenge for opening; 40 min. to Highclere Castle, onto Marlborough, Avebury, Kennett-Upon-Avon, Devizes, Lacock, & end up near Bath O/N.
Tues., July 26 - Bath for one day & O/N.
Wed., July 27 - Head to Glastonbury Tor & Chalice Well (45 min.), drive up 15 min. to Wells & 30 min. to Cheddar Gorge. Head to Malmesbury (1.25 hrs.); stay O/N here or close by?
Thurs., July 28 - Drive thru Cotswolds - Bibury, Bourdon-on-Water, Stow-on-the-Wold, Chipping Campden, Tewksbury, Broadway; carrying on to Worcester area O/N or maybe Ludlow (castle here) or Craven Arms which is one he. past Worcester, 2.5 hrs. driving from Malmesbury to Craven Arms without stops - lots of sightseeing along this route. Staying in Craven Arms puts us closer to destinations for the next day's travels.
Day 22 Fri., July 29 - to Snowdonia, stopping at Portmeirion (2 hrs. from Craven Arms), 45 min. to Caernarfon Castle; then 30 min. to Conwy and O/N (about 3.5 hours total from Craven Arms). Depends on route we take thru Snowdonia - several different routes, which one?
Day 23 Sat., July 30 - Conwy castle (opens 9:30), then 1 hr. to Chester O/N.
Day 24 Sun., July 31 - 45 min. to Liverpool; arrive/park Albert Dock before Beatles Museum opens at 9:00. Magical Mystery Tour at 10:00 (2 hrs. long); Titanic display. 45 min. drive to Manchester; drive by Old Trafford⚽️, drop off car at airport and check in to hotel close to airport. How is driving in Manchester?
Day 25 Mon., Aug. 1 - fly home at 12:00 noon 😥
This would wear me out but it sounds like this is the travel style you like! More power to you! :)
My only comment would be about Keswick vs. Cockermouth. Cockermouth is quite nice but it's out on the coast and away from the things you may want to see in the Lake District. If you want to see the western lakes area then it might work but if you are looking to visit literary sights, hike, or visit actual lakes, you should stay in Keswick. It's much more central and easy to get around to other places, especially since you will have a car. Your time there is very limited so stay in a place where you won't use a lot of time driving around.
It does not make sense to fly from Newcastle to London as the trains take just over 3 hours. To get cheapest fares, pre-book via Virgin East Coast about 10 weeks out. Full range of fares here:> www.nationalrail.co.uk NCL > KGX. The East Coast Mainline passes through York, so you make like to consider seeing this place as an overnight stop-over via train as a car is not needed. (It is also often cheaper to split the train ticket at York in any case when on the Newcastle to London run).
To save an extra day journey out from London, you may like to consider making a detour to Cambridge. So, for example, you could go by train from Newcastle > York (overnight stay). Then, next day, York > Cambridge - which involves 1 change (at Peterborough). You pass through Ely - which has a fine Cathedral.
When going from Worcester towards Wales, you might like to see:>http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/brockhampton-estate/
which is just off the A44 east of Bromyard.
When in Malmesbury, you might like too visit:> http://www.abbeyhousegardens.co.uk
Between Ludlow & Craven Arms do:> http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/stokesay-castle/
Craven Arms > Portmeirion: A489 + A490 to Welshpool. Just before the town, consider a visit to > http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/powis-castle/
Leave Welshpool going W on A458 towards Dolgeallau. From Dolgellau to Portmeirion, the A470 is the fast route and this leg would take 30 minutes. However, you might like to consider taking the coast route (A496 via Barmouth) as this would also include Harlech Castle.http://www.harlech.com From Harlech, it is a short drive to Portmeirion. However, I think that if you include all my suggestions on day 22, that it would be pushing it to do Portmeirion as well let alone get to Caernarfon and Conwy.
Far better to overnight in Porthmadog or even Portmeirion - though that is expensive. This hotel is in a handy location near Portmeirion. > http://www.oakeleyarms.co.uk or use the Porthmadog Travelodge if on a budget or book a B&B.
https://www.travelodge.co.uk
www.visitwales.com
The following day (23), you could leave the Porthmadog / Portmeiron area for Caernarfon. You can do it in 30 minutes via the A487 but I would go via the Aberglaslyn Pass to Beddgelert & then A4085 to Caernarfon as this is more scenic.
From Caernarfon to Conwy, the A55 coast road is the fastest route but the A4086 over the Llanberis Pass to Capel Curig & Betws-Y-Coed) is incredibly scenic. Llanberis is the starting point of the Snowdon Mountain Railway. http://www.snowdonrailway.co.uk (You can't just turn up and expect to get on a train).
On day 23, also include:>http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/bodnant-garden/
You have chosen to travel during the very peak time as the last week of July is the first week of the school holidays. Expect roads to be very busy and prices for accommodation expensive. Had you chosen anytime in June (when the kids are doing exams) or even the first 2 weeks of July, you still would have good weather (normally) and prices would have been cheaper and roads less busy.
Thanks James and Anita for your advice.
James, we would have loved to go earlier, but I am a school secretary and have to work until actually July 9th, but I wangled my way into leaving a couple of days early. I really like the advice about train from Newcastle instead and picking up a Cambridge visit on the way. I've checked out all the other recommended sights and we will take those into consideration. I love this travel forum!
what about Hadrian's Wall and Beamish Museum when you're travelling in Northumberland/Durham?
you do know that you can drive to Holy Island (subject to the tides) but a boat trip to the Farne Islands would be nice
"Thurs., July 28 - Drive thru Cotswolds - Bibury, Bourdon-on-Water, Stow-on-the-Wold, Chipping Campden, Tewksbury, Broadway; carrying on to Worcester area O/N or maybe Ludlow (castle here) or Craven Arms which is one he. past Worcester, 2.5 hrs. driving from Malmesbury to Craven Arms without stops - lots of sightseeing along this route. Staying in Craven Arms puts us closer to destinations for the next day's travels."
That is one heck of a day! I realize you have a limited time to see a lot. But I am afraid you will only see the villages of the Cotswolds through your car window at this speed of travel. The beauty of the Cotswolds is to come to a stop for a while, relax, enjoy each village. Stay overnight a couple of nights in different villages. Walk around in each village, find a lunch spot or someplace to have tea in the afternoon. Listen to the River Windrush while in Bourton-on-the-Water.
I do suggest you cut something else, maybe from the day before, and spend a night or two in the Cotswolds.
Yes we realize we can drive to Holy Island, but we wanted to get the views of Bamburgh and Lindisfarne from the water.
Rebecca, would you suggest cutting back the Winchester/Salisbury day/night or the drive down to Glastonbury and Cheddar Gorge? Or skip Canterbury and Dover Castle? There's just too many gorgeous places to visit. I have only been to London myself, back in 1974. My husband's never been. We have also been going on the advice of our friends in Skipton who have travelled extensively thru the UK. They suggested Beamish Museum as well and we will go if there's time. There's also a huge factor with the cost. Right now, we double what the price of something is as the pound is worth exactly twice as much as the Canadian dollar. Haven't looked to see if we come close to Hadrian's Wall - I anticipate we'll come close to a section of it somewhere in our travels?
I'm curious how your trip will be since you are traveling to similar places as my friend and I, only 2 months later! :)
Rebecca has given sound advice.
You might wish to do Canterbury as a day trip by high speed train from London St.Pancras. Consider deleting Dover.
Consider this:> Pack up in London and go to Heathrow to hire a car. Drive the short distance to Windsor. Then head onto the M4 going west. Leave M4 at junction 13 & take A34 going south - visit Highclere Castle (if open). Then continue to Winchester. Having 'done' Winchester, take B3049 W to Stockbridge & on to Salisbury (overnight).
Next day > Stonehenge > A360 via Devizes to Avebury and then to Bath. (Bath is congested with parking difficulties/ expense & accommodation is on the pricey side. You may like to consider finding accommodation in the Chippenham area as both Lacock & the quaint village of Castle Combe are an easy drive away. From Chippenham, you could take the train into Bath but I am not sure of the parking situation near Chippenham station). More info on travel to Bath:> http://visitbath.co.uk/travel-and-maps
Cheddar Gorge is impressive but Wells Cathedral is not as good as Salisbury Cathedral. I am not impressed by Glastonbury. If you need to cut anything, you could delete these places. Thus, you would gain a day - which should be spent in the north Cotswolds as your July 28th is too much.
James has given you excellent advice, and a good alternative schedule!
You asked, "Rebecca, would you suggest cutting back the Winchester/Salisbury day/night or the drive down to Glastonbury and Cheddar Gorge? Or skip Canterbury and Dover Castle? There's just too many gorgeous places to visit."
Cutting Winchester/Salisbury--Keep this on your schedule. Two of my favorite places.
Skip Canterbury and Dover Castle?--No, these are two amazing sights if time allows. As James said, you may have to skip Dover Castle if pressed for time. If these two things get squeezed out of your schedule this trip, put them on the list for your next trip back to England.
The drive down to Glastonbury and Cheddar Gorge?--Skip this.
I agree that there are just too many gorgeous places to visit in England!
To address this part of your schedule:
"LONDON - flexible, depending on local advice, weather, timing, interests, etc. London sites & side trips to maybe Cambridge, Brighton, Hampton Court/Kew Gardens one day - travelling between the two via Thames, Rye looks like a lovely place, Hop on Hop off, Big Bus Tour includes Thames cruise, or Heritage Routemaster red bus, Thames boat tour, etc. ONE DAY - early morning train to Dover Castle to visit, train back to Canterbury Cathedral/Canterbury to explore, train back to London in evening & O/N.
Mon., July 18 - Fri., July 22 - London
Fri., July 22 - London - Store luggage at hotel for day; pick up luggage later; train/tube to Heathrow, Windsor, Eton area & O/N."
You have mentioned in your London paragraph that "Rye looks like a lovely place." Dover is very near Rye. So it would be most convenient to go there after or before Dover. But you may run out of time and have to leave Rye for another future trip back to England.
"London sites & side trips to maybe Cambridge, Brighton, Hampton Court/Kew Gardens one day"
James has already given you an excellent suggestion as to how to see Cambridge. Brighton is one that I would leave out of this trip, if it were my trip. Hampton Court and Kew Gardens are definitely must-sees. Windsor Castle is fabulous.
Now, about London itself. You are allowing very little time for the sights of London. And thinking of a lot of day trips in order to get out of London. (I would not leave London to go to Rye or Brighton instead of seeing London, that's for sure.It would be different if you were staying in London for 2 weeks, but you're not.) There are a lot of interesting sights in London. Since your husband has never been to London before, you will probably find a lot of things he wants to do.
Your plan for the Hop-On-Hop-Off bus in London is a good one. It's a great way to see the sights quickly for an overview.
You need a good map of England/Scotland, if you don't already have one. It helps to spread this out on a table, and put pins in all your destinations, to see just how much ground you'll be covering.
You currently have ...
York (3 nts) >> Lake District (1 nt) >> Edinburgh (3 nts) >> Alnwick (1 nt) >> Durham (1 nt) >> London (5 nts) >> Windsor (1 nt) >> Winchester (1 nt) >> Salisbury (1 nt) >> Bath (2 nts) >> Malmesbury (1 nt) >> Ludlow (1 nt) >> Conwy (1 nt) >> Chester (1 nt) >> Liverpool (1 nt)
The Lake District for just 1 night really doesn't add to your trip, but with the logistics it actually detracts from it.
Take it out and make things easier ...
York (3 nts) >> Durham (1 nt) >> Alnwick (1 nt) >> Edinburgh (3 nts) >> (train to) London (incl Windsor) (6 nts)
Then to 3 bases for 3 days each ...
Jul 23 - From London take the train to Bath (3 nts)
Jul 24 - Pick up hire car. Excursion to Salisbury and Stonehenge
Jul 25 - Excursion to Wells, Glastonbury and Cheddar Gorge
Jul 26 - Drive via Lacock to Cotswolds (3nts)
Jul 27 - Day in the Cotswolds villages
Jul 28 - Excursion to Oxford
Jul 29 - Drive via Stratford and Ludlow (or Ironbridge) to Chester (3 nts)
Jul 30 - Excursion to North Wales - Conwy, Beaumaris, Caernarfon, Snowdonia
Jul 31 - Excursion To Liverpool (parking car at Birkenhead)
Aug 1 - Drive to Manchester Airport. Return hire car. Fly home.
Thanks for all the suggestions re the itinerary. Hubby really wants to see the Lakes District, even if it is only for one day and one night. We are used to driving, and this excursion is really not that daunting. My parents live in a city 4 hours away and it's nothing to go for a weekend. Same thing with our favourite shopping city 3 hours away in Washington state. Two of our kids live 7-8 hours away and visiting for a 3-day weekend is enough time to do this. We live in southwest BC in the mountains and quite isolated to get anywhere! We had intended on staying "near Bath" as stated in original post, but hadn't decided where that would be - thanks for the ideas on locations! The trains from Chippenham are quick and cheap, so probably stay in Lacock, drive and park in Chippenham, or stay in Chippenham. We have eliminated the Glastonbury/Cheddar leg of the trip - based on suggestions, the Cotswolds would be time better spent and not so much driving. After the trip, if we find places we would like to return to and spend more time, then that can happen in the future. Eliminated the idea of Brighton and Rye to free up more time in London itself. Thanks again.
Ha ha, sorry! I meant southEAST BC! Southwest would put us in Vancouver BC and we are 7-8 hours east from there!
lorierae, so glad your plan is taking shape! You are wise to start a list for "next trip" to England. There are just so many great places to choose from; impossible to get to all of them in one trip, or even two or three trips. I hope you have a great time!
Hi fellow north westerners! We have done a similar trip 2 different times. Once starting in Manchester as you have and another from Gatwick. I would advise not sticking to a strict schedule at all except for accommodations in London, events and flights. Pick your must sees and head linearly in that direction and have guide in hand to stop by anything that interests you. What I am saying is leave a little time for serendipity. Be guided by your special interest and not necessarily all the known tourist stops. We like art and antiques...so we checked to see if any antique fairs and flea markets were on our way. One time we did all the castles and battlefields of the Campbell clan. We loved touring the great estates such as Blenheim Palace. Winston Churchill was born there and is buried nearby...stopping at his and his Clementine's grave was very moving. We stayed in a B & B there that we found at the local Tourist Office. Since you have a car you can stay in the out of way places like a Farmhouse with full board near Keswick. We liked using itineraries suggested by the National Trust UK...you can get an Overseas Visitor Pass on line that saved us a lot of money...they have a huge inventory of properties and wilderness locations you can visit. Bon Voyage! PS: I loved all the castles in Wales!
I like the idea of "winging it", but is that possible given we will be there at the height of tourist season? I'm thinking anywhere on our itinerary - Cotswolds, Northern Wales, Salisbury, Cambridge, Lake District, Edinburgh, etc. We will definitely reserve in London as we want that peace of mind.
Dropping Glastonbury+Cheddar, and pinching a night from London, you could make room for a 2 night Lake District visit at the end of your trip ...
York (3 nts) >> Durham (1 nt) >> Alnwick (1 nt) >> Edinburgh (3 nts) >> (train to) London (incl Windsor) (5 nts)
Jul 22 - From London take the train to Bath (2 nts)
Jul 23 - Pick up hire car. Excursion to Salisbury and Stonehenge
Jul 24 - Drive via Lacock to Cotswolds (3nts)
Jul 25 - Day in the Cotswolds villages
Jul 26 - Excursion to Oxford
Jul 27 - Drive via Stratford and Ludlow (or Ironbridge) to Chester (3 nts)
Jul 28 - Excursion to North Wales - Conwy, Beaumaris, Caernarfon, Snowdonia
Jul 29 - Excursion to Liverpool (parking car at Birkenhead)
Jul 30 - Drive to Lake District (2 nts)
Jul 31 - Day in the Lake District
Aug 1 - Drive to Manchester Airport. Return hire car. Fly home.
Thanks for suggestions djp_shd. We really don't want to cut any more time out of London - as it is we shaved a couple of days already from our very first rough itinerary. There's just too much to see and do without making it a whirlwind. When we return to the UK (we will plan a Scotland/Ireland trip at some point when we are retired and have loads of time), we can further explore the Lakes District and other places as well.
Lorierae - I'm going to echo what James said about Newcastle to London, the train makes much more sense. I'll also echo the plug for Cambridge and Ely cathedral. The cathedral in Ely is just under a mile from the station and is easily walkable. Its well worth the visit. For reference, if you decide to stop and have a look, Ely is only ~15 minutes by train from Cambridge. The change at Peterborough is an easy one coming from the north. York is lovely as well (where, as James suggested, you could overnight before taking the train south).
After all the great suggestions (and some that totally confused me throwing a whack of changes to said itinerary!!!), we've adjusted and streamlined a wee bit. We DO want time to stop and enjoy a pint or two (or three, or hubby possibly more) overlooking a stunning view. Actually, he would like to spend way more time doing that than almost anything else! We DON'T want to spend a lot of time inside stuffy museums, especially those that don't hold much interest for us. We will be content to just view some cathedrals and castles from the outside, enjoying their surroundings, etc. I am realizing to try and see the interiors of all of them on our itinerary will be so time consuming we would have to fast forward ourselves! Gift shops are a bore, who needs more stuff? We will already be spending a full day in York with our Skipton pals, so rather than taking the train from Durham, we'll hang onto the rental car and drive to Cambridge and Ely (because hubby will not be sick of driving on the THAT side of the road yet!). Yet another opportunity to stop along the way at a little inn or pub to soak up more atmosphere. But of course there will be no drinking and driving - I guess I'll be the only one perhaps having more than one pint in those cases. Then dropping the car at a London location, (maybe Heathrow) and training into London?
This brings up a question I hadn't thought of before - how prevalent are rest areas - like they are in North America? Given one beer for me equals many stops. Or is it perfectly all right to stop at a petrol station or cafe to just use the facilities? Now I'm getting way too practical this far in advance of the holiday.
We're skipping Glastonbury/Wells/Cheddar, etc. in favour of another day in the Cotswolds - seems like a perfectly logical thing to do now that we look at it.
Will be timing Holy Island so we are on right before it's unsafe to cross (10:00 am) and return to the mainland after 2:15 pm that day. This seemed more logical and a huge time saver compared to planning around a boat tour (and free, we like free - more $ for drinks and eats).
Still trying to decide whether or not to cut our time in Edinburgh - we could be there for just a day rather than two, but don't want to be looking like a couple of chickens running around! Or cut the visits to Stirling and Doune and Rosslyn Chapel, or cut Scotland altogether - saving it for a completely different holiday. (See me stewing and the furrowing of brows right now.). But have always been Edinburgh dreamin'!!!
Shall conclude my ramblings for the evening. Thanks again everyone.