London/Scotland trip

It is a lot of moving around, and it seems a shame to have only 1-1/2 days for Scotland outside Edinburgh. It's an awful lot of driving for so little time.

Is this your first trip to the UK? If so, I'd want more than 3 nights (which will be 2-1/2 days at best) in London. I think you need a fourth night in London a lot more than you need the third night in Bath.

Are you driving? Bath and Chipping Campden are only about 90 minutes apart. I wonder whether there's another town, just as nice as Chipping Campden, which you could use as a base for visiting both Bath and the Cotswolds. That said, I've never driven in Europe and have no clue how big an issue it would be to drive into Bath and find a place to park near the key sights.

Are you driving the whole time? I wouldn’t want a car in Edinburgh, Durham, York, or London.

I'd consider adding more time in the west of Scotland. I was there a few years ago, and immediately regretted planning only 2 nights on Skye before going to Edinburgh for the festivals.

IMHO you would have a better trip if you eliminated some of the destinations. I don't know which ones are most important to you, but here's one possibility: London for several days including one day for a day trip to Bath if you really want to see it. Then train to York for a day or two, train to Edinburgh for a day or two. Rent a car, see a couple of places in the Highlands (more scenic) or you could head south and do a circuit (either direction) of the Lakes, Hadrian's Wall and Durham, and the Borders region (more historic attractions).. . Return car to Edinburgh airport. Either fly home from there or fly to London, overnight at airport (Sofitel Hotel is very nice and directly attached to terminal 5) and fly home.

If you chose the south of Edinburgh attractions, it would be more time efficient to visit York, rent a car and see the section of the UK between York and Edinburgh, return car, see Edinburgh. A one way rental would probably cost you an extra $100 or so, but the convenience is often worth it.

are you intending to drive all the way to Bath after an overseas flight the day of arrival?

I agree with Nigel on driving to Bath after just arriving from overseas. It is just not safe as past posters have stated on this forum. We did this once and will never ever do it again. I would take the train first into London and spend 4 or 5 nights there as there is so much to see. You are spending two nights in several places. Two nights equals one day to see that place. You are giving short shift to the Cotswolds, Lake District and York. I would give them at least one extra night. One night in Durham is not enough. Beamish Museum will take at least half a day. IMHO I think you need to cut some stuff from this schedule. Slow down a bit and actually appreciate what you are seeing. As RS says, plan as if you would make a return visit at some future date.

I hope I haven't led everyone astray by my question about driving. I have no idea whether that's part of the plan; it's just that "Hadrians Wall" and all the short stops sounded like a car trip to me. And I don't think there's much public transportation to Chipping Campden--though there are one-day bus tours to the Cotswolds that originate in Bath.

I agree with others who have said you need more time in London. So much to see and experience ! Our trip in 2018 was part of a cruise package and wasn’t long enough.
We took a 2 week driving trip in 2019 around Ireland and Scotland. It was fantastic! I wish we’d visited in the highlands of Scotland now looking back.

Driving through Edinburgh was rough! We could see our hotel but couldn’t figure out how to get to it since it was across a one way street with a median in the middle. I bet we drove around for 20 minutes! Finally drove the wrong way on the one way and got checked in.. this was an experience in itself.
Driving in Scotland, other than Edinburgh, wasn’t bad at all.

Sorry, I rather lost interest when you said you were getting off a plane and driving to Bath, presumably whilst jet lagged. Please don’t.

As others have pointed out, two nights means one day, so you are going to be spending a long time in the car with little relief. Conwy to Keswick is a 3.5-4 hour drive without stopping then you have one day there before heading to Oban, which is likely to be a 5 hour drive without stopping, then you only have 1 day there before another 3.5-4 hours to Edinburgh.

You are right, it is a lot of moving around, but 3 weeks isn’t long enough to cover so many miles IMO. I hope you have an economical car, as fuel prices are rising daily and have just hit an all time high - I paid over £1.50 a litre yesterday for unleaded at a supermarket for the first time. Diesel was £1.55 a litre. Don’t fill up on motorways - you can add a further 15+ pence per litre - use the supermarkets.

The OP's posting history shows that 4 months ago they asked for input on a very similar itinerary and got very similar feedback but never replied themselves.

Makes me think they're looking for validation only—no constructive advice, please!

That is one hectic itinerary and you won't have much time to actually enjoy the places you are visiting. 2 nights in a place probably will give you 1.5 days , allowing time to get there, book into accommodation etc.

Day 6 - What or where is Ironbridge Cross? Do you mean Ironbridge on the River Severn? I assume all you intend to do is just look at the Ironbridge and then move on. You won't have time to see any of the many attractions and museums in the area.

Day 7&8 You are being very optimistic if you are wanting to see both South and North lake District in that time. You hardly have time to just do the north...

Day 16 'Durham -Hadrians Wall, Beamish Museum, Durham's Cathedral, Evensong', That just isn't going to work. Beamish needs a fiulkl day and even then you will be pushing it to see everything. Ditto Hadrian's wall. AND you want to be back in Durham for evensong at 5.30....

Places may not look far on a map, but it will take a lot longer to cover ther distance than you might expect. If using Google maps to estimate distances,m the recommended advice is to add at least 25% to their times AND THEN ADD ON TIME for stops.

Three weeks may seem like a long time, but you are looking at a six week itinerary with those plans.

The Durham stop baffled me - no idea how you're going to do that in a day, and as has been pointed out, Beamish is huge - we had a full day there and were struggling to finish on that time. And one night in Durham with most of that time either at Beamish or attempting to see Hadrian's Wall (or driving to and from these sites) means you won't actually see Durham city, which would be an awful shame.

Thank you all for your input. So I think based on what you are all suggesting that we spend our 3 weeks in England and save Scotland for another trip. If you have any suggested itineraries that you've done and want to share that would be wonderful.
This forum is so helpful and I really appreciate everyone responding.
Sheila

I did offer you an itinerary. Here's another possibility: lst night stay at an airport hotel. The Sofitel attached to terminal 5 is very convenient. If you arrive earlier in the day, you could take the tube into central London for a "walk-around." I believe it is also easy to get to Windsor for the day from the airport, although we have never tried that. Day 2, pick up your rental car and spend one or two weeks exploring the southwest corner of England. If you want a 2nd region, after one week of SW England, return the rental car to the airport. Take the train to York. Get another car, spend most of the 2nd week exploring northeast England. Return that car, take train back to London for the final week. Or skip SW England and enjoy 2 weeks in NE England. (These two sections, IMHO, offer the best combination of scenery and historic attractions.
When we are planning a visit to a new country for the first time, we get two current guidebooks (for the UK I would recommend Rough Guide and Fodors) mark everything that sound interesting to YOU, then highlight them all on a map (Michelins are good for Europe). Choose to visit sites in the same area.

21 nights is nice! And I know it seems like a long time, but I think you are wise to cut back somewhere. And only you can decide where you want that to be. But here’s another option.

Bus or train to Bath upon arrival
3 nights Bath - get car as you leave (2 full days)
3 nights Chipping Camden (2 full days)
1 night for Ironbridge
4 nights Conwy or nearby like Chester (3 full days) - you could easily add more nights for Wales
4 nights York
5 nights London (4 full days)
That leave 1 extra night wherever you might want it.

Variations:
Skip Wales and use those nights for the Lake District.
Take your extra night, a night from London, and a night from York for 3 nights in Durham (although doesn’t particularly make sense to me, even though I just wrote it).
Skip London and add 4 nights to somewhere else you will be skipping if you go to London (I know this is heresy but I still haven’t stayed in London after 3 trips to England - someday I will).

You can see there are endless variations and itineraries. Ha! And all are just fine. It depends on your priorities. I am also freely admitting to falling prey to the “eyes are too big for my stomach” driving mentality on our first trip. Learn from my mistakes. Lol.

Those suggestions are really good, and I think it all comes down to limiting the number of moves. If it were me, I would limit it to three base locations, with day trips from those bases as appropriate. As has been pointed out, the NE is a beautiful region which you would enjoy exploring.

Personally I would take 7 nights in London (with some day trips such as Windsor, Hampton Court Palace, perhaps St Albans). You could do Oxford as a day trip, or look at spending a couple of nights there. Then I'd take a train to York, and spend seven nights there, then take the train to Durham for a further four nights,and hire a car to explore further and be mobile beyond the city, perhaps take a few nice country walks. And then I'd return the car, and head back to London for 3 nights.

There's a bit of flexibility, and you could add another base, but it means you spend less time traveling and more time seeing

But a lot of that is based on my own personal preferences, so think about what you enjoy doing.

As wasley said - Places may not look far on a map, but it will take a lot longer to cover ther distance than you might expect. If using Google maps to estimate distances, the recommended advice is to add at least 25% to their times AND THEN ADD ON TIME for stops.

Having driven in the UK on two separate two week trips, I concur with Wasley. It only looks a short distance on the map but takes far longer then you think to get from point a to point b even and perhaps especially on the motorway. The joke in our family from past trips is “but it’s only an inch on the map.” Live and learn.

Personally, I would spend the first nights in London and recover from jet lag before ever getting behind the wheel of a car. To do otherwise is just plain dangerous to yourself and others. There is a lot to see in London alone and you can take day trips from there by public transport.

I see a lot of recommendations for day trips here; I take a lot of those myself. However, if budget is a concern, it's good to keep in mind that staying in London and taking multiple day trips means you're paying London lodging rates in order to see places where hotels may well be less expensive--plus you'll have the rail fares. It may still be the right thing to do; it's lovely not to have to change hotels too often. But I try to group my side trips around a nice, less expensive city.

I haven't made a study of hotel rates all over the UK, but York also seemed pricey when I was hotel-shopping there, and I have my suspicions about Bath--though I'm less sure about that one, because I day tripped to Bath from Bristol. Edinburgh and the west coast and islands in Scotland were also challenging to this budget traveler.

Thank you all so many suggestions. I've been working on revising our itinerary and we decided to spend the full 3 weeks in England and save Scotland for another trip. I went to the library and got Fodor's Essential England, The Rough Guide to England, and Lonely Planet England. That will keep me busy. With that in mind, if we spend our first week 5-7 days in London, what area would you suggest we stay? I thought it might be beneficial to rent an AirB&B.
Thanks for all you help in helping us plan this once in a lifetime trip.
Sheila & Jeff

What are your priorities as in “ must sees” in London?

Hotel? Airbnb? Preference?

London has so much to see. Loads of free museums.
Historic properties. Gorgeous Parks. Theatre. Street Markets.

Share your interests and we will share with you.

I have been to all those places and they are great. However, I think you are moving from place to place a bit too much.

Suggest that you research and plan how you will go from place to place (train, rental car, whatever).

For example, assuming you are driving, it is 224 miles. That is likely 7-8 hours by train and more than four hours driving, with not stops.
https://www.rome2rio.com/map/Keswick/Oban
Based on my experence with driving in the UK, it this website says four hours then you can probably expect it to be 5-6, that is the better part of a day.

Consider eliminating some places, perhaps skip Scotland this time and do it later.

the train on the journey just above can be done in just over 5 and a half hours. It is of course bus from Keswick to Penrith station, but also a bus or a fair walk on Shanks's Pony, in Glasgow too. The train from Penrith arrives in Glasgow Central station, a dead-end station. The train for Oban departs from Glasgow Queen Street station.

The drive's not so trivial either. I count 9 current road works areas on the route, just within Scotland.

Some different questions;
What time do you arrive and at what airport?

How long will you have been travelling from the time you leave home? Are you thinking that you will be able to sleep on the plane/planes?
I don't see anything in your original post about your interests, what type of thing fascinates you? History, ancient buildings, stunning scenery, the seacoast, walking, shopping, fine dining? Think about what you want to see not what others think you should see.

Have you booked a rental car? Have you plotted your planned route on Google maps or other site?

I assume you have not driven in England? It isn't a good idea to drive any significant distance when over tired and jet lagged.
Now I'm going to disagree with some of the other replies. Many, many times I have read comments about the length of time it could take to get from point A to point B in the UK. My opinion is that the journey is part of the adventure. Stay off the motorways unless you are going any great amount of distance and just want to get there in the shortest possible time. You will find many less well known treasures that way.

You could and perhaps should stay at a hotel close to where you arrive for one night. Or you could drive halfway to Bath stay somewhere in the vicinity of Stonehenge, visit Stonehenge either that day or the next day and then finish the drive to Bath.
What do you want to see in Bath?

Have you considered visiting Cheddar Gorge 23 miles south west of Bath, it is one of the most fascinating cave systems I have seen.

Why Chipping Camden, other than it seems a somewhat logical stopover on the way to Ironbridge?

An alternative would be substitute Ludlow in south Shropshire for Chipping Camden. It's no distance at all from Ludlow to Ironbridge. Ludlow is a wonderful historic town with a wonderful castle.
I used to play in the castle as a child, though that was before it was a tourist attraction.
Then Conwy, add Chester before or after Conwy, Chester is wonderful, the cathedral is beautiful, there are lots of black and white timbered buildings, you can walk around the town walls.

Then Keswick and the Lake district. Then I think as do others to cut the Scotland part of the trip. Go to Carlisle and visit various points on Hadrian's wall as you drive east, Housesteads is good. I don't know anything about Durham.

Perhaps drive through North York Moors national park, then York. Were you planning to drive directly from York to London?
It's doable but probably not enjoyable.

Take the time that wasn't spent in Scotland and add it to London. I will say after visiting London 3 times, that I saw most of what I was interested in, on the first visit. Make a list of what you want to see, and don't think that you are required to 'get to know' the city.

There are 2 wonderful websites https://www.picturesofengland.com/ and https://www.britainexpress.com/index.htm that have stunning pics of many places that might help you decide what gems you might find along the way from Point A to Point B.

I hope this lengthy post will be useful.