Itinerary help - London and outskirts

My main question is why rent a car to go to places you can reach easily and more cheaply by train? Reading is an easy train ride to Oxford and Windsor, and both those places are particularly difficult to drive and park in (especially Oxford). Do yourself a favour and skip the drive.

Personally I'd skip Selfridges (a very ordinary department store) in favour of Fortnum & Mason and/or Liberty. They're close to where you'll be that day. Harrods is in Knightsbridge, and best done on the day you visit the Natural History Museum.

I found Stratford-upon-Avon OK but not worth a day trip. Ditto Warwick Castle. Oxford on the other hand is amazing.

Hi -

I find it particularly hard to read your huge print. Probably caused by the use of "#" at the beginning of lines, which tells the computer interpreter to insert headlines.

The day that the Tower of London is an also do among many worries me. A pair of 11 year olds, if well prepared, will lap up. So much to see and do, and then for them and the adults there are the Crown Jewels. Best to be at the Tower when it opens in the morning and get to the Crown Jewels right away so the quickly building lines form behind you instead of in front of you. Then back to the moat for the free Beefeaters tour, and don't miss the flowers in the Moat. The Tower is so big (no elevators in the fabulous White Tower, especially if the kids like medieval armour) that the Tower easily takes more than 3 hours.

Both the Science Museum and the Natural History Museum are adjacent near the Royal Albert Hall and the Albert Memorial as well as the Victoria & Albert Museum, but all of those are huge and chock full of interesting things. I worry about having enough time and energy to try to do both the National History Museum and Science Museum in one morning.

I'm discouraged by all the driving, especially since you will be driving to very difficult places for cars so often served by frequent and enjoyable trains, for which very reasonable tickets can be purchased. Don't try to drive into Oxford.

Have you researched inexpensive ways to travel to your goals by train? With the Family & Friends Railcard, up to 4 adults and 4 children can travel together on one card – and you don’t even have to be related. Adults can save 1/3 and children’s tickets cost 60% less. Without the card the 11 year olds (being between 5 and 15) are half the adult price.

Comment about number 6: your 11 year old kids would love Warwick Castle. It has lots of people in period costume reenacting and explaining and demonstrating things. Should you choose Oxford over Warwick, then I would add on Hampton Court into your plans. The other area that I think is particularly appealing to kids is Greenwich. Lots to see and do there. Do the Tower of London Beefeater tour. It is fun and interesting. My kids really enjoyed it.

Some of your days seem very ambitious to me. Weather can also impact plans.

A word of caution on your last day. Stansted Airport is a distance away. It can be very crowded. I used to fly out of Stansted on Ryanair frequently. Give yourself plenty of time to get there, check in and pass through security.

Thank you all!

I have edited the post and removed the # from the front (i had no idea!)

We dont have plans to visit the Tower of London inside, we have no interest in the crown jewels.

Which days you think are ambitious? In order to maybe rethink them :). we tried to make our days very simple, and maybe we didnt think a day correctly?
I dont know a lot of this about Hampton Court, is it worth it?

I like driving a car, and be flexible in deciding last minute route. That's why i am thinking Avebury, Cotswalds, Warwick castle, Oxford and Harry Potter with the car. To easily change half of the day with something else.

To be fair, there’s a lot more at the Tower than just the Crown Jewels

As others have said, parking in Oxford is a nightmare. If you do want to drive there, I suggest parking in one of the Park and Ride car parks (there’s 3 or 4, I think) on the outskirts and getting the bus into the center which is quite walkable.

I should have said that Hampton Court Palace is great with lots to see in a full day. It’s a short train ride from central London and the station is opposite the entrance, but there is some car parking there. The gardens and maze are lovely on a good weather day.

Pat's point about Warwick Castle is a good one- it does appeal to children, so your kids will probably love it. For adults (and if you do end up driving), Kenilworth Castle is nearby and worth visiting if you're in the area - it's a ruin, but a substantial and interesting one
If you're in Warwick, it's worth visiting the Lord Leycester, which is basically a small version of the Royal Hospital Chelsea.

And yes, Hampton Court Palace is 100% worth it. Our kids loved it when they were young, and we've been multiple times. Brilliantly engaging for kids and very interesting for adults too - was a key royal residence from Henry VIII through to George II.

In terms of busy days, day 4 is packed. I think you're underestimating the time needed for the museums, which are enormous. Science Museum plus Natural History Museum is a day in itself, so to then try to head to the other end of the city and see Camden Market and/or Notting Hill is not viable. Equally, Windsor Castle is 2/3rds of a day given the size of the site and the length of the queues. No way you'd make it to Harry Potter in time.

And just a note of train times Reading to London. 25 mins is correct, but bear in mind you have to get to the station from your flat, wait for the train, deal with any delays etc. I'd allow more like 45 minutes.

Your kids would probably enjoy the interactive “Wonderlab” at the Science Museum. This has to be paid for (unlike the rest of the museum) and does get booked up. Note you do need a timed entry ticket, even though it’s free.

Foyles? Why/ If you're thinking of the old Foyles with lots of little passageways and nooks, that's gone. The new Foyles is a modern, organized, well laid out bookstore. I like it to go book shopping but it's not what it used to be.

Waterstones on Piccadilly is largest bookstore in Europe. (It's just off Piccadilly Circus.) It has much more character. But honestly, with your schedule, I'd skip it as well.

The Tower of London is a lot more than just the Crown Jewels. It's not just a tower. It's a former palace made up of numerous buildings and you even see the now dry moat around it.

The same for Hampton Court. A huge palace complex. Decorated as it was when used in the days of Henry VIII. They also have a maze that your kids might find fun getting lost in. Easy day, or even half day trip, from London. You can take the train one way and the ferry on the Thames back.

But in general, I think your days are too jammed packed. You will be exhausted, so will your kids, and you may not get to everything.

Apologies for posting thoughts as they occur. In Oxford, the children would probably really enjoy the Story Museum (down a small street opposite Christ Church). It’s quite interactive and incredibly imaginative. For 11 year olds, I would pay the extra amount to see the optional 25 minute (ish) film about story writing in Oxford.

Another vote for Waterstones on Piccadilly, and I should also recommend Hatchards (also on Piccadilly) which is my favourite. If you're into rare books, have a look at Peter Harrington (just off Piccadilly on Dover St). For interesting used and antiquarian but not super expensive, there are a couple of good places on Charing Cross Road - Henry Pordes, and Any Amount of Books.

But I'm just giving you more thing to add to an already busy schedule...

OK thank you guys again.

Would you delete museums form our London days, or just add more days to London in order to be more relaxed and do-able?

Thanks

From experience with my grandchildren (oldest 9), I think they’d enjoy the Natural History Museum and the Science Museum. In my opinion, the British Museum can be a bit dry but, for example, they can see real mummies if they’ve studied the Egyptians at school.

Went there with the grandkids in February. There was a lengthy queue at opening time - which in fairness, moved quickly; maybe 15 min delay - which was to get through a security check on bags.

I don't know a lot of this about Hampton Court, is it worth it?

If you don't think the Tower of London is worth it, then I doubt Hampton Court will be worth it to you. Both were the highlights of our trip to London. We spent 6 hours at each. The Tower is so much more than the crown jewels.

Warwick Castle is fantastic; especially for kids. I was like an 11 year old boy wandering the ramparts. It's got a very small parking lot that fills up early, we ended up in a paid lot about 1km away and walking in.

We were in London last August with our 14 and 11 year old grandchildren. Their favorite things to do were seeing the Tower of London and the London Eye. The costumed Beefeater Yeoman Warder tour at the Tower of London was great. The guide has a sense of humor and is a wonderful storyteller. They were fascinated. The London Eye was a fun experience with great views of the area around Westminster and the Thames.

"Would you delete museums form our London days,"

Not everyone's a museum person, so it's somewhat dependent on your interests, but I'd do the museums and add more days in London. And with kids I'd drop the British Museum in favour of the V&A (South Kensington near the Natural History Museum) - that was our kids' favourite when they were young. Another good one for kids is the Young V&A in Bethnal Green (formerly the Museum of Childhood). And then there are hundreds of smaller museums - one favourite with our kids is the Foundling Museum (Bloomsbury). And then there's the London Transport Museum at Covent Garden, the Museum of London Docklands, the Florence Nightingale Musem (Lambeth)...

If I did my Math correctly, you actually only have 8 full days of vacation. Three or four of those days are in an apartment in Reading and when you want to rent a car (Hell on wheels around London, IMO, and unnecessary and stressful...and I drive in Boston and area. LOL). In a great public transportation area, I would never rent a car...everyone can relax on a train or bus.

Eleven year olds are great travel ages. The ones I've known have been like sponges. However, it seems to me you are missing what might most benefit them in the future...they are about to start studying world history in more depth (assuming you are from the USA, but perhaps not) and it will be much more interesting, IMO, if they visit the Cabinet War rooms, Hampton Court (It's not just Henry VIII, but if that was all, it would still be interesting), the Tower of London (great stories), Windsor Castle and the town. Depending on the exhibits and the interests of your kids, the War Museum can be fascinating, and Kensington Palace often has interesting exhibits. As some have said, drop the British Museum and go to the V&A. The Kings? Gallery (formerly Queens or is it still?) can be an easy view of art for youngsters and lovely. Then "kind of" across the street is the Guards Museum for kids/adults interested in the their uniforms, etc. and it is also less intimidating as it, too, is small. I, also, can't stress enough the value of just walking through neighborhoods and parks in London and taking your time to absorb it all. Park cafes are interesting people watching places as are pubs. Rent a rowboat in Hyde Park (if you can still do that)?

Is this a death march? Maybe not for you. We have very active days and have been very much walkers. We often have days listed with possibilities, but I know we will drop a lot of them so we were not rushing through them. When traveling with my daughter, timing was also based on her; ie, more interested in one thing than expected, a need to sleep late one morning (I loved this one. LOL) etc.

Do you actually save money, and stress, with the free apartment by the time you rent a car or train back into town? If it saves money, is saving this money important? Regardless of money, we would stay in London and do day trips if necessary. I've spent weeks in London through the years and this post makes me want to return...

Here's the other thing about public transportation...I was teaching my daughter how to travel Europe by using public transportation and navigating cities/days trips, so she would be comfortable traveling on her own or with a friend later in her teen years, which she did.

Whatever you choose, have a great trip!

if you are worried about the driving time to Warwick Castle, a train from Reading to Banbury, 15 minute connection (about 14 more than needed for a same platform connection), then a quick train ride just through Royal Leamington Spa to Warwick. Warwick station is very near the town centre and the Castle, a very easy walk. No parking hassle. And you can look out the train windows on the way and follow the Grand Union Canal which the railway follows.

Thank you all! 

So after your comments and help, I've just booked another day in London, so day 8 is night accommodation in London, thus another full extra day to explore.

The Tower of London is the frequent topic discussed with my wife: we do not know why people like it and we can't find any photos to understand why. But we will search more in the weekend!

Maybe also because we are from Cyprus and our kids are just starting to learn English, so it will be difficult for them to follow guides talking.
But based on the comments here, we are now considering visiting the Tower of London.

I think we will opt to the following in each day: Reading, Avebury, Cotswalds, Oxford, Reading. Then possible Warwick and Stratford in the next.
Then Henley on Thames and Warner studios the next day. It's 5 nights outside London, but in fact 3 days spent "outside".

Thanks for the bookstore tip, we have added it to our trip!

I still don't know how are days jammed, but maybe we needed 10 full days in London instead of just so many. Usually other people's schedules have empty days of just walking?

I know you'll have a great time in London, even if your itinerary isn't absolutely optimal. A few more opinions from me:

1. Do not under any circumstances drive to Oxford. It's a nightmare for anyone driving an automobile. Use the train.

2. The Cotswolds are full of quaint villages, but it's not a place of otherworldly beauty. I'm glad we went; don't need to return. Broadway is probably the one with the most obvious attraction to the widest audience. Trekking up to the tower is a good bit of exercise and offers some beautiful views. You really need to drive to the Cotswolds, as there aren't train stations in the most attractive villages. Maybe rent a car in Oxford to get there.

3. I wouldn't miss the Tower of London. Kids, especially, seem to really love it.

You don't mention whether your native language is Greek or Turkish, but there are some new real-time translation apps for smartphone use that could help your twins understand things a bit more easily.

London is a wonderful place. Have a great time!

Thanks, we are Greeks :)

I am planning to go to Oxford after driving to a couple of villages in (Bibury Bourton on Water) and and then park at the park and ride at Oxford.

As for the Tower of London, we decided to visit and walk outside, but not inside.

I still don't know how are days jammed

To my eyes, especially as you have now added an extra day your London days are not that jammed-
17 July looks OK to me, assuming that you are not going to go inside Buckingham Palace on a tour or inside Westminster Abbey, On the way from Buckingham Palace to Westminster Abbey you also pass Westminster Roman Catholic Cathedral. Unlike the Abbey there is no admission charge and no fixed times to be booked. You can just go in as and when- one of the places everyone seems to miss. Thus you have a Cathedral without the crowds of the Abbey or St Paul's

Likewise 18 July looks busy but not jammed.

19 July is the day that worries me- two major Museums in one day sounds a bit over the top. I would do one or the other, then Camden Market or Notting Hill. Save the other Museum for 24 July.

On 21 July I notice that no-one has commented on Woburn. I think that would be an excellent idea for the Children if the weather was good. On the same theme and the same general area Whipsnade Zoo is another possibility.
If the weather was not so good then substitute in Warwick Castle and Stratford on Avon instead.

Although not a Castle, Woburn has a stately home to see externally- Woburn Abbey. You can't go inside until 2026 while it is being refurbished.

On the last day, on paper Paddington to Stansted is only 1 hour 15 minutes but you have a check in at 1500 for Cyprus so leaving Paddington at 1300 is not giving too much leeway for any rail problems. I would be inclined to leave rather closer to 12 noon, just for breathing room.

I have not been to Stonehenge, but have been to Avebury and I think the fact that it doesn't have the crowds and you can stand next to the stones would make it the best choice for your children. I don't think Salisbury, Cotswolds would be very interesting to 11 yr olds, but it you're wanting to educate them, you probably are already aware that one of the copies of the Magna Carta is at Salisbury Cathedral and Salisbury is nice for walking around.

First, know that this forum is VERY opposed to driving. Keep that in mind with all the responses saying don't rent a car.

I think the itinerary sounds pretty good for 11 year olds, especially if English may be a little hard for them to follow.
I encourage the rental car. Getting away from tourists, and into a small village is the best. As an American, the idea that some random small village of 1000 people has a church founded in 1035 is amazing. As a teen we once we're driving in northern England. Stayed the night in a small b&b. The owner was chatting with us at breakfast and asked us "how did you get here? This is not a tourist area and is well off the motorways". My father told her where we were from (stationed at an air force base in southern England) and showed her our trip itinerary. She was so impressed that we were not just hitting the tourist places and really looking at the country itself. That always stuck with me.

Thank you all!

I felt that your last minute comments changed our trip to the better.

My wife wants a lot to go to Greenwich, however it seems far away for me and i dont feel like spending more than half of a day there.
Similar, she wanted to go to Stonehenge, and that is why i have put Avebury in our schedule.

We changed our schedule on some days:
4 , Fri 19/Jul: We will just walk towards St PauL Cathedral, Millenium bridge and then to Tate Modern. Then to Borough market (lunch), Leadenhal market and end up at London Tower and London bridge. We will have also Sky Garden in our minds if we want to. Then leave for Reading at around 7-8.
5 , Sat 10/Jul: Drive to Avebury, Bibury, Bourton on Water and then to Oxford. Unfortunately all walking tours that could take us around nice places are up until 15:00, and i am not sure if we will make it by that time to Oxford, as we will leave Reading 09:30 in the morning.
6 , Sun 21/Jul: Either drive to: (a) Warwick Castle and Stratford upon Avenue, or (b) Wolburn Safari. If we are tired from previous days, maybe just find another place very close, and enjoy a bit Reading as well.
8 , Tue 23/Jul: This is not definite, and depending of our last minute desires (we will not do all, but will combine 1-2): Notting Hill, Camden Market, Hyde Park, Imperial War Museum, or even maybe one of the two Science or Natural History Museum.
9 , Wed 24/Jul: Science, Natural History Museum, Hyde Park, Harrods

Thanks again! I really feel better with an extra day in London, although my wife tells me that i am mad for changing last minute our schedule! :)