UPDATED: Basic itinerary for 5+ week England trip.

Mardee,

There is an Arnold Clark office at Carlisle on the Kingstown Industrial Estate, on the A7 heading north out of the city. There is a 1/2 hourly bus #79 from there to Carlisle Bus Station (a short walk from the train station). If you were lucky you would catch the two hourly X95 from Edinburgh which takes you straight to the railway station.

Get on the motorway at Junction 43 northbound and come off at Junction 44, and you're there- don't come all the way into the city on the A69 then back out on the A7.

Or at Brampton come off the Brampton bypass onto the A689 past the airport- that will bring you to Junction 44 of the M6, past Houghton Hall.

Pleased you've got all your accommodations sorted.

From Carlisle change at Birmingham. Almost without exception it is cheapest (by far) to book to Birmingham (usually about £18.60 or £22.60 before railcard discount) then a separate Birmingham to Oxford which you should get for about £25.

There's a Hertz in Plymouth down by the Harbour. You could drop the car off there, cross the harbour and see the Mayflower memorial in the Old Town then cab it up to the station for the train to Birmingham and thence Liverpool.

Stuart, thank you so much for all the info about dropping it off in Carlisle and the trains! That is wonderful to know, especially about the change at Birmingham! And the info about Plymouth. I am still planning to go there even if I don't rent a car there, since it would be so cool to see the Mayflower memorial.

Well, after I wrote the post, I thought maybe I should just start checking things out instead of whining about how I can't find anything, lol! So I did check and found a good deal with Europcar out of Truro. And it looks like it's easy to get to Truro from Falmouth, and it has a good train route to Liverpool, unlike Falmouth.

So I will pick up the car on Monday and have it for a little over a week. I debated getting a manual transmission (because I'm cheap) but ultimately decided that in Cornwall, it's better to be safe than sorry, so I paid extra for an automatic. But it really wasn't bad. I think the total is £338, which is not terrible. I paid more than that for a week's rental in Cincinnati on my recent trip. And it's cancellable and I don't pay until I pick it up.

I was thinking about the Northumberland Coastal Walk related to your possible stay at Seahouses. It looks like the official coastal path route goes right in front of your B&B, lol!! But it looks like it's about 10 miles to Dunstanburgh but you can walk part of it in some direction!

https://northumberlandcoastpath.org/the-route/the-stages-of-the-walk/craster-to-seahouses/

Just a comment about your arrival day....you could...
Take the tube from Heathrow, Piccadilly line to Green Park, and change to the Jubilee line to Waterloo Station. Walk the very short distance to your hotel from there.
Easy as pie.
No need for the Elizabeth line.
Use the Oyster card for the whole journey, if you have one.

On changing trains at Green Park......
You should follow the "Way Out" signs from the Piccadilly Line platforms until you get to the barriers at the station exit. But don't go through the barriers. Turn back and follow the signs to the Jubilee Line.

There are many ways to get to your hotel from Heathrow.

Pam, thanks for that info - and the link! I've been to the main Coastal Path link before but didn't know there was a Northumberland one. Woo hoo! I can't wait to walk it! If I walked 10 miles, it would definitely take me at least 3 1/2 miles if not more, but it might be worth a shot. :) I could always take a bus back.

Rebecca, this is such good information - I didn't even think of checking to see if the tube would work. That is so helpful. And also about how to transfer at Green Park. That is always when I get confused. Thank you so much!

I may be alone, but I find the Piccadilly Line an interminable bore to ride from Heathrow. It feels like a million stops on outdated old trains. Elizabeth Line is a much nicer experience, though I've never taken it from Heathrow.

GerryM, that's too bad. Many tourists brave the ride in on the Piccadilly line from Heathrow to London and it is adequate for their needs. They know it's not a luxury train trip and don't mind all the stops.

My preferred way to get to her hotel is:
ride the coach (bus) from Heathrow to Victoria Coach Station.
Walk from the coach station to the Westminster Abbey area.
(Mardee, if you don't have a good paper map to study and mark up, I'll mail you one.)

See the Big Wheel across the river; walk across the bridge;
Premier Inn London County Hall hotel is right behind the Big Wheel.

Easy, inexpensive, and scenic way to get there, with a nice walk through the Westminster area on the way.
It's a good walk, but you'll see a lot on the way.
You can take one route past Buckingham Palace, then down Birdcage Walk to the Thames River waterfront, by Big Ben and Parliament buildings, then across Westminster Bridge to your hotel.

That's a fair old walk from Victoria Coach Station to the other side of Westminster Bridge. I wouldn't fancy doing it with luggage.

GerryM, I did the walk with luggage and enjoyed it.

Of course I only take one carry on bag/tote when I travel so no problem. No struggling with cases.

I would take the bus out to Craster or Dunstanburgh and walk back to Seahouses due to the infrequency of service. The main operator of that service, Travelsure, is closing down at the year end so it will have to be seen whether Arriva step in to improve their service frequency to fill the gap.

From VCS I would take the bus #11 from straight outside the front door , it stops more or less straight outside PI County Hall. But yes I like that walk if travelling light. I know some people don't like the walk from Westminster Tube across the bridge (another of a myriad of possible routes), but I think it's a great scene setter for any trip.

premier Inn County Hall is a reasonable walk from either Westminster or Waterloo Tube stations.

Well, I just checked and it looks like it's a bit under one and a half miles, which is an easy walk for me. I will have luggage but it's a small spinner carry on and tote that sits on top, so it is doable. And it's going to be early in the morning (my flight arrives at 6:30 am) so I'd be looking to kill a bit of time, and could maybe even stop on the way and get a coffee and pastry. I sort of like the idea of maybe my way across London in the early morning. And I think it will help with jet lag, too (I can rationalize anything). 😊

Rebecca, I would love to borrow your map if you don't mind. I will take good care of it, I promise! And thank you for this idea!

Gerry, I really appreciate you noting the distance with luggage and ordinarily I think I'd agree with you. But for some reason, this walk appeals to me.

GerryM, I did the walk with luggage and enjoyed it.

Fair play. It's definitely do-able but I think I may be cursing my suitcase by the end of it. I've walked around there a lot. I used to work in the Millbank / Pimlico area. I'd do it no problem with a backpack or a bag, but it's on the limit for me of where I'd drag a suitcase on wheels.

premier Inn County Hall is a reasonable walk from either Westminster or Waterloo Tube stations

Lazy old me would be making my connections to Westminster station whatever way I chose to get into London from Heathrow. A gentle stroll across Westminster Bridge would be plenty of exercise and sightseeing until I got checked in.

GerryM, absolutely agree with you....no suitcases to lug along.
Medium size backpack or tote bag is the way I roll.
Just one...not both...no rolling luggage.
(This is just my own personal preference and is NOT meant to be lecturing others about what they take. Everyone decides for themselves what type of luggage/bags to take on their journey. It's clearly none of my business what others take.)

Mardee, since I now know you will have a rolling suitcase/spinner, I will refer you to the post above by isn31c:

Quoted directly from isn31c's post:
"From VCS I would take the bus #11 from straight outside the front door , it stops more or less straight outside PI County Hall. But yes I like that walk if travelling light. I know some people don't like the walk from Westminster Tube across the bridge (another of a myriad of possible routes), but I think it's a great scene setter for any trip."

That's a 1.7-mile walk. I wouldn't do that with luggage when the Tube is an option. I don't like having to cover much more than a mile with my rolling bag, which I admit typically weighs about 30 lb. Google estimates a walking time of 40 minutes, but I find having luggage with me adds about 1/3 to the time required, so I'd expect over 50 minutes on foot.

Premier Inn County Hall gets a lot of mentions on here. County Hall itself has an interesting history. My own personal memory is it being pointed out from the top of a HoHo bus by my dad on my first trip to London. At that time (or maybe it was just after) it was the headquarters of the Greater London Council (GLC), headed by Ken Livingstone. It was of great interest to my dad, who was politically active on the left, as the GLC under the control of Ken Livingstone was a massive thorn in Margaret Thatcher's side. So yes, I always think of "Red Ken" when I hear about Premier Inn County hall :-)

I totally understand others not wanting to do that walk.
It's not for everyone.
I guess I was just so excited the day we arrived.
Not my first trip to London by any means, but nevertheless, I was excited and wanting to do a walk.
I really hate suitcases and any large luggage, so I just tell myself that whatever won't fit in the carry on tote, too bad, I will just do without it.
I do know Mardee's situation is quite different, as she will be in the UK for 5 weeks.

11 bus with the destination Waterloo is a good shout. Not one I've ever used, but looks just right if you're using Victoria Coach Station.

Mardee, I will mail you the map and you can keep it. Mark on it, whatever, it's yours.

Bus route 11 used to be one of London's great sightseeing bus routes as it went to Liverpool Street- it was diverted to Waterloo about a year ago, to replace the former Red Arrow 507 express Commuter bus route, when that brand was retired. In the other direction it goes to Fulham, or for many years to Hammersmith. At night it is one of the ways from Central London to Heathrow as it extends to Ealing Broadway for Heathrow connections. Like many routes in London it is one I know well. I use the bus as much as the tube in London. This week I am doing Euston to Putney on the bus (1 change) and quite often do long distance routes- such as the 188 North Greenwich to Tottenham Court Road (connecting en route to Euston/Kings Cross), so know the system very well, from actual use, not looking at a map or an app.
Route 11 even had a role in the movie The Da Vinci Code.

The furthest I have walked dragging luggage across London is Victoria Coach Station to Fenchurch Street. I had well over 2 hours to kill, and several war memorial sites to visit (yes I was on vacation on the way to Tilbury for a cruise, but I often mix business with pleasure), so it made sense to walk on a nice morning. I had to visit the City of Westminster memorial, the Department of Business, the Bali bombing memorial at the Clive Steps below the CWR, the Earl Mountbatten memorial in the gardens behind Downing Street, the Belgian Refugees memorial on the Embankment (opposite Cleopatra's needle) and the Malta memorial at All Hallows by the Tower, so combined all of that with general sightseeing en route. The start was before 0700 so I literally saw London waking up before reaching Fenchurch Street at 0915. It also took in several of my former workplaces en route!!

Hi Mardee -

We were in Northumberland last weekend and we parked the car at Craster (just outside actually) and walked from Craster to High Newton - specifically The Ship Pub - via Dustanburgh Castle (closed due to ‘adverse weather conditions’ - it was a bit breezy) and then along the beach to High Newton. There and back is around seven (and a bit) miles.

We walked on to Beadnell, one of our party returning to collect the car and pick us up in Beadnell, which made our overall mileage a shade over eight miles. Can go into long winded detail if you would like! Essentially, look for the signposts and keep the sea on your right! Getting onto the beach beyond Dunstanburgh is beyond the golf course is any way you can when the rocks run out and it’s all sand below,

Crab sandwiches in High Newton and Craster and Robson’s Smokehouse in Craster has a shop where, amongst other things, you can pick up freshly smoked kippers for breakfast the next day! Just need the weather to cooperate although the bar staff at The Ship said there were always people doing this walk whatever the weather.

Ian

And I've got plenty of paper maps for where you are going which you are welcome to borrow, as I am very much a paper person, including the 1:50,000 sheets (inch and a quarter to the mile, in old money) for the whole of the Northumbria coastal walk. One of them I have is the out of print 2 inches to a mile strip map of Hadrian's Wall.

Truro is a sensible place to pick up the car from but it doesn't make much sense to drop it off there. From Princetown you will be travelling about 90 minutes back in the wrong direction for a train to Liverpool. If you can, you would be better dropping it off at Exeter ideally or Plymouth as second choice. It would save hours in backtracking and then the slow train out of Cornwall.

If the drop off charge is too much I would opt to pick a car up at either Exeter or Plymouth instead.

We did four weeks in S. Wales and England in 2017 (avoiding London) and love it.

You itinerary doesn't visit some wonderful places. Bath deserves at least one day. Stratford Upon Avon is not to be missed, especially if you are a Shakespeare fan. York is one of our favorites, you need two or three days there. Winchester is great as well.

Since you go near Liverpool, consider visiting Chester.

Tips on a rental car. Make sure your car has enough trunk space for all your luggage. You don't want to leave anything in your car that is visible, encouraging break-ins.
Get a car with automatic transmission and avoid shifting with your left hand. Stick to the speed limit and take care when turning into the left lane.

If you book lodging, make sure you have parking for your vehicle.

The Hertz in Exeter is south of the City at Marsh Barton, which is where I am on Wednesday morning. There is a good bus service from there into the City Centre (a Park and Ride), but not St David's station; and also a brand new station at Marsh Barton which runs into St David's for main line connections.

Strangely Hertz are the only major car hire company not to have an office at Exeter Airport.

Exeter or Plymouth to Liverpool is another journey where you save £50 or more by doing it as separate tickets across Birmingham. The cheapest (by another £20 or so) and most scenic route is actually via the Welsh Marches route (Newport/Shrewsbury) and Chester.

I know some people don't like the walk from Westminster Tube across the bridge (another of a myriad of possible routes), but I think it's a great scene setter for any trip.

Stuart, when I read this, I immediately panicked and wondered if it was because the bridge was really high. So I had to go to Google street view and check it out, lol. I've been there before, of course, but it's been a long time and I thought maybe I was missing something. But it looks fine.

Rebecca, Stuart and Gerry, you all have given me some great options here! I do like the idea of walking but that's easy to say now. I might feel differently depending on how much sleep I got on the plane, so it's good to have a few different routes. Thank you all!

acraven, you're right. I could have sworn it said 1.4 miles, but when I checked it again, it had gone up. :-) I think I'm going to see how I feel after disembarking at Heathrow and then decide what to do. I could always take the bus to the hotel, drop off my luggage and then go walking unencumbered. Thank you!

Gerry, very interesting story about the County Hall PI! I enjoyed reading the history that you linked to - thanks! And very funny about Margaret Thatcher!

Stuart, thanks for the info about Route 11. I'll have to rewatch the DaVinci Code before I go. :-)

Ian, thank you so much for the info on that walk! I will have to try and figure it out. I especially will enjoy the food places you mentioned, and will definitely pick up some fresh kippers. I've never eaten kippers before but look forward to trying them. I love smoked fish. There's a lot of it in the Duluth area here, although I don't think I've ever seen kippers.

Stuart, thank you for the offer of maps. Between you and Rebecca, I will have a wealth of cartography! Although I don't think I would take the out-of-print map - I would be too worried about something happening to it. :-)

Johnnew52, that makes sense about Truro. I totally forgot that my base would change by the time I dropped it off. 🙄 That said, I was thinking that I might drop the car off a day early in Truro, and just head back to Princeton and do some hiking the rest of the day and hang out until I leave the following morning. But maybe that's not such a great idea. So I will have to think about that. Thank you!!!

Your itinerary doesn't visit some wonderful places. Bath deserves at least one day. Stratford Upon Avon is not to be missed, especially if you are a Shakespeare fan. York is one of our favorites, you need two or three days there. Winchester is great as well.

geovagriffith, thanks! I am not visiting Bath or Stratford because I've been there before, and wanted to mostly go to places I have not been. I will be in Yorkshire for 8 days so will have plenty of opportunities to visit York (I have been there before but briefly). And thanks for the rental car tips. I did have a rental car for 16 days in Scotland in May of this year, so I'm pretty familiar with driving in the UK. In fact, on my first trip to the UK in 1996, I rented a car with a manual transmission and drove all over for a week. 😊 I will get an automatic transmission for the Cornwall portion, but I might go with a manual in Liverpool. It depends on the cost. Thanks!

Stuart, more good info about the trains! I really need to start looking at routes and checking prices, and your information really helps me a lot. Thank you so much!

This all sounds great but I just want to give you a little reality check about your four nights in Princetown (not Princeton, btw) as your base for Devon. Location-wise, it’s great for Dartmoor as you’re in the National Park but also on the junction of what passes for major roads in those parts.

However, Princetown as a town is fairly bleak. I mean, of course it’s bleak: it’s on Dartmoor and there’s a vast Victorian prison there. But just be aware that it’s not a cutesy pretty town. The surrounding landscape is gorgeous and you’re well-located for walks, but Princetown doesn’t have an awful lot in terms of cafes and restaurants and doesn’t have the attractive ambiance of, say, Chagford for example.

I can’t remember the discussions about where to stay in Devon, so I’m not sure of the thinking behind it. I don’t want to put you off, and I’m sure you’ll have a great time.

The town of Tavistock just a short drive away is very pleasant with a lovely market and lots of good places to buy and eat food, if you find yourself a bit stuck for choice in Princetown.

Not to labour London in your thread, when there's so much else to discuss, I recommend listening to The Kinks - Waterloo Sunset to get in the mood for PI County Hall. Possibly the greatest "London vignette" in song, just beating out Squeeze - Up The Junction, another song set not far away.

Mardee - how will you get back to Princetown and then on to the train without your car? Driving back to Truro to drop off the car and then come back to Plymouth on the train and then work out how to get back to Princetown will take all day. There won't be time for any walking as you will be off again in the morning. You need either to find somewhere to drop the car off or change your pick up point to one that makes sense for drop off as well. Or, although I wouldn't recommend it, drive back to Truro and stay over around there for the night before the train to Liverpool.

If you do go back to the Elizabeth line route (and there is plenty to weigh up as above and you may be forced to on the day anyway) make sure you travel in the front 2 or 3 carriages for the connection. If you have a long walk might as well do it at Heathrow.

Gerry, thanks for that link to the music! How fun - I will enjoy listening to it. Thanks!

Golden Girl and Johnnew52, thank you both for pointing out the flaws in my plan. I don't know what's wrong with me - ever since I got Lyme disease back in September, my brain seems to be malfunctioning a bit. You both make good points so now I'm going to think about this, and probably cancel the Princeton hotel booking and the car rental and start over again.

What do you all think about Plymouth for a 2nd base? I need someplace that will let me take a train to Liverpool, and drop off the rental car and is relatively close to Dartmouth.

Marco, thanks for that! Good to know!

What do you all think about Plymouth for a 2nd base? I need someplace that will let me take a train to Liverpool, and drop off the rental car and is relatively close to Dartmouth.

I like Plymouth a lot - but it’s a big gritty city. The waterfront is gorgeous but also a lot of the city could be perceived as ugly and noisy. I actually live here and love it, and my mother has a great time when she comes to visit … but it can be a bit edgy around the city centre on a Saturday night.

Does Totnes have a place to drop the car off? Because that’s a very pretty town (with a hint of Glastonbury in terms of lifestyle).

Plymouth is a bit marmitey. Some people like it, some hate it after the post war rebuild, and not much in between. There are some nice places to stay on the sea front near the old Eddystone Lighthouse (Smeaton's Tower) and near the harbour, but what about hiring and dropping the car at Plymouth (assuming it is Hertz) and staying in Tavistock or Okehampton (on the west and north edge of the park respectively) for part 2.

I suspect you will make better time than the train from Plymouth to Falmouth.

A lot more trains run to Plymouth than to Penzance. From Okehampton Exeter is as close, pretty much, as Plymouth. But if you join the train at Plymouth chances are it is starting there.

If you did decide on Tavistock - as suggested above - it’s a very easy bus ride from Plymouth.

Golden Girl, I don't mind gritty cities. And at this point, I don't really care if my surroundings are attractive or quaint. I just want to be near a train station and a car rental place, and Plymouth fits both counts. Although I still need to figure out where to pick up the car.

I'm wondering if it would be better if I travel by train from London to Plymouth (Palm Sunday), spend the night in Plymouth (unfortunately the car rental place is not open that day), then pick up the car the next morning (Monday), drive to Falmouth to spend 4 nights there, then come back up and stay in Plymouth for 4 nights , turn in the car on the following Monday (it's a Bank Holiday, but I can return it without it being open), then leave for Liverpool by train on Tuesday morning.

That works, Mardee.

There’s plenty to do in Plymouth and I’m happy to give you more ideas of what to see and do along the way.

From Plymouth it’s quite easy to get around Dartmouth and the South Hams and also up onto Dartmoor, either with a car or (slower but still possible) by bus. Also there are some nice little ferry rides around Plymouth.

Okay, after I posted that, I came back and saw your responses. I haven't change my lodging booking yet, to maybe that is a good idea. I just want to make sure I can get from there to Plymouth relatively easily on the morning I leave. And bus is fine if that's quicker than train. So I will look for some lodgings in Tavistock and also Okehampton. Tavistock looks very nice, although I'm a little intrigued by Okehampton as that was the location of the town in the Murder at Sittaford by Agatha Christie. :) But I'll at Tavistock first, as that is closer and I like that there is bus service to Plymouth.

Thank you both (all) for bearing with me. I don't know why I am having such a hard time with this. Sigh. 😵‍💫

Stuart, it's not Hertz, it's Europcar. Hertz was much more expensive so I didn't go with them.

ETA: I was also wondering what driving and parking would be like in Plymouth. It might be easier staying in Tavistock or Okehampton.

Well Europcar still has a Plymouth City Centre office, not far off the end of the Royal Parade. There are three city centre PI's.

I had no idea of the Agatha Christie link with Okehampton. Okehampton also has a Railway Station, reopened fairly recently, change at Exeter. I've actually been looking at that whole area today for a totally different reason than Agatha- trying to do the Trafalgar Way trail from a base at Paignton (a nice little B and B I know there). A bit to complete around Truro then the long leg from Launceston to Okehampton, Exeter and beyond on into Dorset.

Driving in Plymouth can be busy but it’s not too bad. It’s not a challenge like London or Manchester or Bristol or Birmingham. Parking - well, you either need to make sure your hotel has a car park or use the on-street paid-for car parking. All the streets around the Hoe - where a lot of hotels are - have on-street parking that you pay for via Ringo.

I feel that Okehampton is a bit dull. I struggled to fill an afternoon there. Tavistock is livelier. But honestly you might enjoy Plymouth just as much. I mean, there is honestly no better waterfront. And the city is chock-full of history and has great road and public transport links. It’s just that we always feel the need to warn people that a lot of the architecture in the city centre is uncompromisingly post-war, and that there’s a lot of active nightlife.

wondered if it was because the bridge was really high. So I had to go to Google street view and check it out, lol. I've been there before, of course, but it's been a long time and I thought maybe I was missing something. But it looks fine.

the major bridges in central London are all basically flat - Westminster, Waterloo, Tower Bridge, London Bridge, Albert Bridge, etc.

Same height as the roads they have left and are approaching. The river is down below.

I know some people don't like the walk from Westminster Tube across
the bridge (another of a myriad of possible routes), but I think it's
a great scene setter for any trip.

Stuart, when I read this, I immediately panicked and wondered if it
was because the bridge was really high. So I had to go to Google
street view and check it out, lol. I've been there before, of course,
but it's been a long time and I thought maybe I was missing something.
But it looks fine.

The reason some people don’t like the walk across the bridge from Westminster is that the bridge can be very busy with selfie stick-toting tourists and also panhandlers. Much more so than any of the other bridges in London I feel.

Oh, that makes sense, Golden Girl. And Nigel, thanks for setting my mind at ease. :-)

Mardee,

I'm just thinking you are arriving by my count in Plymouth/Dartmoor on Good Friday, and leaving on Easter Tuesday. I'm all a bit confused about this now and of where buses come into the equation, but bus services on to Dartmoor will be on Sunday Timetables on Friday, Sunday and Monday. Normal on Saturday and Tuesday.
To Princetown Sunday service means non-existent and Okehampton to Tavistock for Plymouth means 3 in the day, not the normal hourly service.

As far as I know you are taking a car on Day 5 or 6, and keeping it to Day 15, I think.

Also I'm not clear if you are returning the car on Monday or Tuesday, but would the car rental office be open on Easter Monday?

I would have thought you would drive in early from Tavistock or wherever to Plymouth for whatever time the rental office opens, then be on a train say 9 or 10am.

If you left Plymouth at around 9.30 or 10am, you would be into Liverpool by around 4pm via Birmingham or around 5pm via the Welsh Marches.

Say you arrived at Plymouth on Palm Sunday PI's are always very cheap on a Sunday night. All the Plymouth ones are just £47.50 that night and for the 4 nights of Easter Lockyers Quay PI (right down on the harbour) is only a total of £253.50./£255/£316 (non refundable/refundable to 28 days before/flex) +£6 per day parking.

At Okehampton I can see on booking.com the Meadowlee for the 4 nights £176 (includes breakfast) + free parking- 5* on TA.- fully cancellable £160 on their own website. The one drawback I can see is that they have two singles- which share a private bathroom.

Another couple of hotel recs for Plymouth: the Grosvenor Hotel and the Imperial Hotel, both in the pleasant Hoe area. Both of them are very nice small hotels with breakfasts cooked to order.

I think both have small car parks but also there’s lots of (paid-for) on-street parking around.

Stuart, I decided it would be easier (and cheaper) to return the rental car the day before I leave (on April 1, which is a Bank Monday). I can still leave it at the office but have to pay a small fee to do so, since the office is closed.

Basically, here is my schedule:

1. Leave London for Plymouth on Sunday, March 24.
2. Spend the night at the PI Derry's Cross (it's within walking distance of the rental place and it was a low price).
3. On Monday, I will check out, walk to the Europcar office, pick up the rental car and head to the Duchy Hotel in Falmouth for 3 nights.
4. On March 29, I will drive back to Plymouth for 4 nights (March 29 through April 2) but return the rental car on April 1, the day before I leave.
5. On April 2, I will catch the train for Liverpool.

I think staying in Plymouth will be much easier and I appreciate the recommendations from you and Golden Girl! Thank you both!

Logistically, this exercise has been useful for me, in identifying somewhere decently priced in Okehampton, which I had not expected to find, wouldn't have even expected or looked for. So this forum does work both ways.

Very glad you’ve reached a plan, Mardee.

Incidentally the Derry’s Cross Premier Inn is within one of those actual post-war buildings that some people (me) love and others have described as a bit Soviet.

I’ve messaged you. 😀

Oh, that's nice to hear, Stuart! I'm glad you got some benefit from it. :-)

That's interesting, Golden Girl. I guess there are so many buildings like that here in the states that it doesn't bother me.

Thanks again, Golden Girl! I've booked my stay at the Grosvenor for March 29 through April 2 and am looking forward to it. I really like the looks of it, and the price was very reasonable considering it's over Easter break. I looked at it through Google Street View also, and took a digital "walk" down to the harbor. It really looks lovely.

And thanks to everyone who responded! I'm updating my itinerary to reflect the changes I made (due to my not thinking things through) so hopefully this will work better.

Mardee,

While in Plymouth if you get the chance you might like to do one of these cruises- when the dates are announced (probably next March)- https://www.plymouthboattrips.co.uk/cruising/

I particularly like the Calstock one. They are normally done as round trip but I've done Calstock one way twice- once outwards by train (a lengthy walk down the village main street), the other by bus (which drops you right at the quay).

I was reminded of these cruises today when plotting possible routes in November from Penryn, near Falmouth, to Paignton- and using the Cremyll Ferry is one of four routes to choose from on the day.

Stuart, thanks so much! That sounds absolutely wonderful! I really appreciate you posting this - you know how much I love boats!!! I will definitely be booking one of these, and the Calstock one sounds lovely!

Mardee,
I know you have got your car rental in the West Country sorted, but I thought that for anyone else I would add some extra notes which may be of use to others, which I have stumbled on this morning-
1. Arnold Clark have a click and collect office at Exeter Services at the end of the M5. That isn't as daft as it sounds because the Services is also a park and ride site for Exeter.
2. Hertz is still open at Truro Station. Officially they are open 0830-1600 Monday to Friday and 0900- 1300 Saturday but this morning they opened at just after 0645. The office is literally on the Penzance bound platform, so quite handy. It wasn't open for a sleeper passenger as that is only running 3 days a week currently.

Mardee,

You may need to revise your plans for the hire car in Cornwall. There is rail engineering work from 16 to 27 March between Exeter and Plymouth. Details are not yet available, but it seems likely that all trains will terminate at Exeter St David's with rail replacement coaches forward for the circa 90 minute journey on to Plymouth.
I would hope for details early in the New Year.

Stuart, that’s so weird because I was just looking at some of the railroads today trying to figure out how to get from Plymouth to Liverpool. There was one route that said something about possible construction or maintenance or whatever it is, but that’s the only thing I saw. Of course none of the dates I want available yet.

At any rate, I appreciate you giving me a heads up. And would appreciate even more letting me know any updates you hear of. Thanks!

Mardee,

I will.

It's equally weird that I caught it solely because of looking at delays tonight on HEx, and that took me to the far distant engineering works calendar for GWR.

There is a PI straight outside the front door of Exeter St David's railway station. Being a Sunday night it is usually on for a steal of a price, just like Derry's Cross was.

Plymouth to Liverpool is basically a choice of 3 routes-
Plymouth to London Paddington THEN London Euston to Liverpool
OR
Plymouth to Newport THEN Newport to Chester THEN Chester to Liverpool (via either Merseyrail or the new route via Liverpool South Parkway).
OR
Plymouth to Birmingham THEN Birmingham to Liverpool.

My own preference would be the Newport route (for scenery), then the London Route (for the quality of train) then the Birmingham route a distant third- as it's on Cross Country as far as Birmingham, with the attendant overcrowding. The drawback of the Newport route is the motley collection of train cars being used, but there are repeated reports that more of the long overdue brand new train cars on that route are finally entering service.

The nightmare, of course, would be your encountering a rail strike day, but you could just extend your car rental period if that happened.

I don't actually take the train to Liverpool till April 2, which is a Tuesday. So if I wanted to avoid Birmingham, how do I do that? Every time I do the journey planner, that's the only route that is offered. Should I book 2 separate tickets (like what you told me to do for Carlisle to Oxford)?

Yes you would break it into two. In fact you would do that, even if you routed through Birmingham.

Looking at 9 January- via Birmingham at 1027 through fare is £108.80, book that in 2 parts and it becomes £52.30 + £7.25= £59.55, almost a £50 saving, on the same trains.

via London at 1015 is £30 + £25.05= £55.05 (including the tube fare), a 59 minute longer through journey

via Newport at 1052 is £19.80 + £22.90= £42.70 (but another 59 minute longer journey, arriving at 1842)

All fares before railcard 34% discount.

That's great! Thank you so much for calculating this for me, Stuart! I really appreciate it!

Mardee,

As an interesting aside when you are in Cornwall you may encounter the bagpipes of Scotland!! I am just on line now with a carol concert from Truro Cathedral, which started, to my surprise, with a bagpipes and drums procession by the Kernow Pipes and Drums Band- who wear the Cornish National Tartan (and who knew that existed as well). They say they are the largest such band in the county which implies there are others.
The Nine Lessons and Carols service actually originated at Truro Cathedral in 1880 - in the temporary wooden building before the current cathedral was built.

EDIT- and they played the service out as well with a stirring processional rendition of Highland Cathedral.

Oh wow, I will definitely have to look for that. I have Truro Cathedral on my list of places to see and this gives me even more motivation. Thank you once again, Stuart! This trip is looking better and better every day!

Mardee,

I know we talked about registering your National Railcard at Heathrow on arrival at the Tube.

What struck me this morning was that you are arriving very early on a Tuesday. The reduced tube fares with your railcard don't start until 9.30am- the start of off peak. So actually, if you encounter issues just wait until you are in Central London to register it.

What prompted the thought was that I was investigating a journey to London on my local station TVM for January (4 weeks time). And, apart from the £27 advance fare from Cumbria to London (I could even reduce that on split fares, but too risky in my eyes due to connections), the TVM actually offered me an add on Day Off Peak Travelcard Z1 to 6 for £10 with railcard discount.
Now I haven't used a Travelcard in London for way over 20 years, as I always use Oyster PAYG/capping, and before that for many years used a National Rail season ticket with integral travelcard from darkest Essex or deepest Kent or Sussex, way beyond the TfL zones. In Kent I must have been about Zone 53 if such a zone existed, in Sussex about Zone 20 and in Essex about Zone 30!!

Nor have I had a 12 hour connection, from 11am to 11pm in London in years. That will be a real treat, to be savoured.

But it struck me that £10 is a very good price, so I came back home to investigate. Now the railcard Z1-6 off peak cap is £9.80, but you can't use tube/rail in the afternoon 4pm to 7pm peak. Whereas, for 20p extra, the £10 travelcard with railcard discount has no afternoon restrictions.

So a thought, if your flight is very late and you arrive after 9.30 buy an off peak Z1-6 travelcard with railcard discount for Day 1- as you don't have to register your railcard to get that.

Otherwise just buy a single into London, get some rest and then register your railcard at a station in the central area when you are less hassled, and encumbered with luggage.

By the way, when I get to Devon next day, it being January I have got a (fully cancellable) room in a smart hotel for £21 bed and breakfast. They just want footfall at that time of year, and will almost pay you to stay there.

Stuart, that's good advice - thank you! And it makes a lot of sense. I think I will try that option. You're right as my flight gets in early (around 7:00, I think) so it wouldn't make sense to try for that. And kudos on the great deal! That's a very nice price!!!

Mardee,

This is a particularly interesting walk in Falmouth- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgqaNgH-ySw

A side of the town most people maybe don't think about. Most Friday morning breakfast times are brightened up with this You Tube Channel.

Living in another one time major port town, where any historian knows there must have been a thriving red light district, we certainly don't have such information in our local census results.

Thanks again, Stuart! I will watch it today. I've been doing a bit of substitute teaching, so I haven't had much time lately, but will enjoy it this weekend.!

Mardee, I can't wait for the trip report. A cottage for 7 days in which to explore Yorkshire sounds absolutely divine to me.

Mardee,

I've just been planning two of my own trips (one to Bagshot and one to Andover), and suddenly had a thought about your train to Plymouth on Palm Sunday. As you are staying at County Hall, why not take the South Western Trains service from Waterloo to Exeter, change there for Plymouth (or not, if the line is closed beyond Exeter for engineering work).

Assuming no engineering work on South Western of course.

It is a slower route but you have the day for the journey. It is the via Salisbury route, a nice scenic route. I personally think the Class 159's on the route are head and shoulders above the GWR IET's out of Paddington in quality and ambience terms. With a railcard on a weekday Waterloo to Exeter is from £9.15 advance fare on certain trains. On a Sunday it seems to be £11.65 standard class or £15.10 1st class. 1st class is just bigger seats in a 2+1 config, and quieter, no other perks, but for £3.50 more a no brainer.
Exeter to Plymouth advance fare you can often pick up for £3.30 standard, £6.60 first (no perks like free drinks on most services).
If you end up routing to Liverpool via London then you are also not repeating the Exeter to Paddington route.

Worth bearing in mind for when tickets are released.

Mardee, I can't wait for the trip report. A cottage for 7 days in which to explore Yorkshire sounds absolutely divine to me.

Laurie Beth, doesn't it just??? I can't wait!

Stuart, that's an interesting idea. I'm printing this out and will look at it more closely as I start the train ticket bookings/work. Right now I'm substitute teaching for 4 weeks, so my time has been very limited to work on my trip, but that ends Friday and then I'll have lots of time available. Thank you so much for thinking about this!

Long term sub assignment, mardee? I used to really enjoy those. At the holidays, though, those little humans can be all things “extra” 😊 ! Challenging, but so much fun! You’ve definitely earned a good vacation! Both after the schools let out and in 2024 when you go! Hats off to all teachers!

I’ll say! I have a whole new respect for teachers that I never had before. I mean I’ve always respected them, but never knew how hard they worked.

I did it really just to get out of the house in the winter since I have a tendency to hibernate. Of course the extra money comes in handy for travel and most schools are desperate for subs. But it’s been a real pleasure and I finally feel like I now know common math, lol! There’s nothing like teaching fourth graders algebraic equations to make you learn it yourself. And it’s been such a rewarding experience to hear the kids tell me they finally understand it. 😊

Hi Mardee -

While you are in Helmsley, not too far away, this may be (or may not be!) of interest:

https://hangingstones.org/introduction/

We (a group of six of us) went a few weeks back and despite us going immediately after heavy rain (it was something of a mud/bogfest at the lower levels especially!) I thought it was sensational! Currently nine of the ten installations are open/finished, but if you like the combination of a good walk in the country coupled with modern art (who doesn’t?!!) this is truly excellent.

It’s worth looking up Andy Goldsworthy’s other pieces/installations - there are some in the USA as well as the U.K. - to see if his oeuvre is up your strasse, so to speak. Many of his pieces are monumental, some by their nature, only temporary.

Ian

Oh, Andy Goldsworthy is still around. There is a trail in Cumbria of sheepfolds which he built/rebuilt. A far more engrossing trail than it may sound, and each a work of art.

”Turn in rental car in Carlisle and take train to Oxford. Stay one night at Marriott Courtyard Oxford City Centre and explore Oxford.”

Unless you’re using Marriott points to pay for this hotel, check out the Oxford Malmaison. It’s a chance for an attorney to stay in a former prison! : ) The decor is worth seeing itself! I loved the carpet, designed with the 5-count cross hatch “number of days there”.

The location is better for being close to where you will enjoy exploring, too. It’s about the same distance from the train station.

Ian, that sounds fantastic! I will most assuredly look into that and would love to see it while I'm there. Thanks so much! I will check into his other exhibits as well. I did see the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh, but didn't realize he was the designer of the Hutton Roof. I've probably seen some of his pieces at Park Presidio in San Francisco as well.

Hi Mardee -

Glad to have piqued your interest! Don’t forget you’ll need to book in advance as they limit the number of visitors to the site(s), and booking earlier rather than later is advised.

I didn’t know about the Hutton Roof piece in Edinburgh - I looked it up. Clever wordplay by Goldsworthy, as I only knew Hutton Roof as a small village not far from Kirkby Lonsdale, just off the A65, the road to the Lake District from Leeds (Goldsworthy grew up near Leeds). I knew it as - a long time ago - I did the Hutton Roof Fell Race, just the once. Very nice post race cakes as I recall, which I couldn’t look in the eye, because, fell race……😂😂

Ian

Unless you’re using Marriott points to pay for this hotel, check out the Oxford Malmaison. It’s a chance for an attorney to stay in a former prison! :)

Jean, it sounds wonderful, but sadly cannot take advantage of it. I'm not using points but I am using my yearly free hotel room from Marriott Bonvoy for the hotel. It expires in May so I figured it was the perfect place to get it in. I'll remember that for next time, though!

Ian, good to know about booking in advance. As soon as I'm done with this teaching job and the holidays, I start back to trip planning full swing and will start doing all the sightseeing bookings I can. Thanks again!

Mardee,

To tie up a loose end from 2 1/2 months ago the former Travelsure journeys on the Seahouses to Dunstanburgh/Craster (to Alnwick) bus route have been taken over by Borders Buses on a very similar timetable to Travelsure, on contract to Northumberland County Council, starting on 3 January 2024.

For the benefit of others, now that Borders Buses are for the first time running daily routes wholly in England they are now part of the English £2 fare cap scheme. This was not the case in summer 2023 when their only English route was that from Berwick to Holy Island.

So now 3 buses a day on Arriva X18 Newcastle to Berwick and 3 a day (not Sunday) on Borders Buses 418 Alnwick to Beal/Wooler.

Sometimes tying up loose ends takes time.

Mardee,

Tickets for your train to Plymouth should be opening up this weekend, if all goes according to plan.

The train plan to cope with the engineering work is most trains from Paddington to Plymouth and beyond running as far as Exeter and then to Totnes. There is then a 50 minute bus ride on a rail replacement bus from Totnes to Plymouth.

But Plymouth and beyond passengers are advised to change at Tiverton Parkway (before Exeter) for a 1 hour 40 minute rail replacement bus ride to Plymouth- the faster option.

So you can now decide whether to retain your Plymouth reservation/car rental or to amend that to Exeter.

Bearing in mind that from Totnes Station there is also an hourly regular service bus into Plymouth Royal Parade in the City Centre (not the railway station)- numbered 'GOLD'. The service buses are normally double deckers. So I would be heavily inclined to stick with Plymouth- if that train plan is confirmed for Palm Sunday. The service bus is only about 10 minutes slower. If you ended up with a wait for the service bus it would even be a very good excuse to wander down into Totnes Town Centre. And you still get to travel the Dawlish sea wall by doing that.

EDIT- As an example of how I put my personal itineraries together, given the unexpected change at Totnes, I have just looked into putting you on a river cruise from Totnes to Dartmouth, then service bus Dartmouth to Plymouth via Kingsbridge (a part of Devon off the overseas visitors radar) but the Sunday bus timings don't work (even if the tidal boat timetable was available yet, which it's not).

Stuart, thanks for all the good info. I can't really change my reservation to pickup in Exeter, because I'm spending that first night in Plymouth, near the rental agency office. And that's non cancellable. It was pretty cheap so it wouldn't break me, but I don't really want to deal with changing lodging at this point.

And I'm little confused by what's going on but it's late here and I've been busy all day, so I'll look it over next week when I have for time. Thank you!

Mardee,

GWR have now opened bookings for Palm Sunday- 24 March (sooner than expected). You have to assume the timings are right, and that the dates of the engineering work are now amended. But they are showing trains straight through to Plymouth- no bus replacements.

Anyway that day all trains are showing as advance fare £30 with your railcard or £45.50 1st class advance with railcard.

So now is the time to book that particular ticket.

As it happens GWR also have a January Sale on at the moment with January Sale Advance Tickets at a special rate. Those special fares can't be reduced with railcards- but are only £33 standard class/£50 1st class. I add this note for anyone else reading this as there are some amazing fares in the January sale.

Also, looking in late March, you may be able to get from Plymouth to Liverpool for about £35. Plymouth to Bristol advance fares are about £13.50. Cross Country have brand new advance fares Bristol to Birmingham from as low as £15.20, and then LNWR BH to Liverpool for £7.25. But Cross Country also have very new advance fares Plymouth to Birmingham for £52 (a huge saving on their old fares), if you wanted to avoid changing at Bristol. Cross Country don't open bookings for early April for another fortnight yet- but that is great news, as that will be around £60 Plymouth to Liverpool.

Oh great! Thanks so much, Stuart!

ETA: I've booked the first one from London to Plymouth for £30. Worked great! For some reason, I can't open the app though - I keep getting a message saying there are technical difficulties. But I have the confirmation email. I wonder if there's some kind of block that won't let someone outside the UK access the app. But I was able to access the website fine, though. Anyway, thanks again, Stuart - you rock!!!

Is this the infamously glitchy GWR app, or the LNER app?

If it hadn't been for all the floods and my own trip to Devon next week I'd never have known about the early opening on bookings. At one stage I was in a difficult situation for next Wednesday with serious storm damage to one Devon rail line, now mercifully rectified. I was on something like Plan 12 yesterday, trying to devise a solution.

It's the glitchy GWR app. 😊

Mardee,

When you get to Falmouth stay on the A39 as it curls round above Falmouth to reach your hotel. Don't be tempted to follow the estuary into and through Falmouth.
Access Falmouth Town Centre from your side, at the hotel.
This is due to major roadworks at Penryn until March 28.

I have been told about this today by National Express who are unable to get me to my stop in a few weeks time so will over carry me to Falmouth The Moor. Gee, thanks a lot. If I wanted Falmouth and not Penryn I would have booked to Falmouth. My train/bus combo to Bude leaves from Penryn so guess I will just have to fast walk it back to Penryn, or abandon the journey at Truro.

See this newspaper article- https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/24009212.commercial-road-penryn-traffic-lights-major-roadworks-2024/

Just a note for anyone else reading this- the rail engineering work in Devon between Exeter and Plymouth which was originally scheduled to close the line for 10 days from 16 to 27 March has now been shortened to 2 days- the weekend of 16 to 17 March- with night time closures throughout the following week up until 22 March.

Oh good! Thanks, Stuart!

When you get to Falmouth stay on the A39 as it curls round above Falmouth to reach your hotel. Don't be tempted to follow the estuary into and through Falmouth. Access Falmouth Town Centre from your side, at the hotel. This is due to major roadworks at Penryn until March 28.

Stuart, are you saying that I should just stay on the A39 instead of turning left on B3292 (which goes through Penryn)? I was asking because it's a Bank Holiday that day (Easter Monday) and I wasn't sure if there would be construction going on then.

Mardee,

You are arriving, I believe, on the Monday of Holy Week, the Monday before Easter, or am I mistaken? A normal working day.
Currently the work is scheduled to last until Easter Weekend.
The issue is that the road has been dug up at Penryn Bridge. There are three way lights causing "major delays" round what is said to be a huge hole for water pipes.
Lots of signs saying local traffic only and diversions.
So you get 2 miles down that road and get stuck, just beyond the Church.
So unless all the signs have gone when you get there stay on the A39.
This morning the A39/A394 junction was also a major bottleneck due to Tremough College beside it, but they should be on Holiday then.
I currently have a debate with myself for tomorrow whether to use a short forecast weather break in foul weather at Launceston, or at Penryn. It's either/or. If I choose Penryn I will find out at first hand what sort of a mess it really is.
One thing's for sure. My early 7am start from Bude is abandoned. I have breakfast booked at the PI for 7.30.

Oh rats, that's right - I don't even know my own schedule (sigh). Okay, that sounds good - I will use your suggested route. Thank you! Sorry about Bude, and but I'm glad you have access to breakfast! I like the PI breakfasts!

I will exceptionally review Bude later on the current PI thread as, yes, the breakfast was good.
In fact I got an £18.99 meal deal - 2 course evening meal + alcoholic drink + breakfast. And my room was £35.
£19 for 2 meals you can't complain.
I am literally on revision 21 of today's plans, and page 18 of my old fashioned planning written plans, but am now doing Launceston and Lifton, via Tintagel, Wadebridge and Camelford, potentially ending in Mousehole. The weather is moving through faster than scheduled.
I am going to try to shoehorn in Penryn after dark as well. Time will tell. But I am angry about repeated issues with getting there, on what only needs to be a 5 minute visit. When that happens I take drastic but thought through steps.

Mardee,

I will email you photos of the Penryn works later. Inbound at 4.30 pm I had a 20 minute delay getting through the worksite. Outbound just moving now, after a 15 minute delay. Talking to the shuttle bus driver it's been up to 40 minutes at peak times.

Ahhh, Penryn and Falmouth, so close (2 m) to Budock Water, one of my ancestral locations (Bartlett and Edes lines). So eager to return to Cornwall.

Mardee,

We keep forgetting to mention that when changing at Birmingham New Street the station is divided into Red, Green and Blue Zones, shown on all signs and indicators. Follow those and you won't get lost.
Platform 4c for the Liverpool LNWR train is in the Red Zone. It is a terminating platform to the left of the through Platform 4.
Come down the escalator and walk straight ahead at the bottom.
I am there now on 4c on a Liverpool train, to go one stop to Smethwick Galton Bridge for Stourbridge.

Mardee,

In the last outstanding action on me from last October Plymouth Boat trips have now announced their cruise schedule for 2024. Sadly there are no Calstock cruises while you are there but there is a River Yealm Cruise on Bank Holiday Monday and scenic harbour cruises over the weekend as well as Drake's island cruises.

Hi Mardee -

A word to the wise about the ‘scenic route’ (see brown tourist signs) you’ll probably drive up on the Northumberland coast. The route, especially through the villages you pass through, is festooned with speed cameras so make sure you drive within the speed limit. The same could be said of much of the U.K. but it’s particularly noticeable here I think, with the possible exception of North Yorkshire who have few if any static cameras. They rely instead on mobile camera vans to keep you on your toes! Back off the accelerator and enjoy the scenery (if you find yourself critiquing somebody’s choice of curtains as you drive past, you may be going too slowly!).

Ian

Thanks for the info, Stuart!

And Ian, thanks for the warning! I'm usually pretty good about sticking with the speed limit, but definitely good to know they are watching. I had heard that Scotland does the same thing so I was extra careful last year on my trip, too. But it's easy to forget so I appreciate the message!