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If the British call a linden tree a "lime" tree....

What do they call the citrus tree that bears lime fruit?

Posted by
8889 posts

Citrus fruit trees don't grow in Britain, it is too far north. Therefore the English language doesn't need a name for the tree.
Anyway "Linden" is German, it is "lime" in English, I have never heard it called "Linden" in English.

Posted by
4748 posts

We would call this a lime tree. We can't grow the lime fruit trees here as our climate isn't mild enough, so there isn't any confusion.

Posted by
6334 posts

Chris, in American English it is always linden, probably because of the large numbers of German speaking immigrants in our early years. The neighborhood I lived in when I lived in Minneapolis is called Linden Hills because of all the linden trees.

I'm still not sure what the English, or other Europeans call a lime tree when you do go to Spain or Italy or wherever they do grow to distinguish them from a linden tree. You can't just call it a citrus tree because that wouldn't separate it from an orange or lemon tree.

Posted by
3182 posts

As far as I know the name lime tree for trees of the genus Tilia is not used in the US (and probably also not in Canada?), it's always called by the German Linden (which is bad German since that is the plural form). I am probably wrong though, perhaps in Boston or Nova Scotia the term lime tree might be in use. No idea about Australia.

It's certainly less confusing to have different names for the two types of trees.

Nancy: Looking at the entomology "linden" is a middle English word used in the late 1500s so linden could easily be an instance of the US preserving older English terms and pronunciation and have nothing to do with Germans (but I have no proof). For example, the US preserves the original French pronunciation of "herb" having a silent H as it was pronounced in England till the late 1800s when not pronouncing H's carried a stigma and H's previously silent were pronounced.

Posted by
8889 posts

A similar issue exists with other southern fruit and vegetables that do not grow in Britain. Historically they did not exist, so there was no name for them. When it started to get imported in the 20th century, it came via France and French names were used, Courgette and Aubergine are two examples.
In the USA the same items were brought in by immigrants from southern Europe, and Italian or other names are used.
There is a list of these and other differences here: http://wearenotfoodies.com/english-and-american-english-food-terms/

Posted by
12205 posts

It is definitely a linden in American English. The word " lime" is saved for citrus, not members of the genus Tilia.

The city of Boise ( capitol of Idaho) has many of them as street trees and in the parks along the river. This time of year I love visiting there because the lindens are blooming and the air is scented with them, especially in the evening. They have several different species---the little-leaf linden and the silver linden, to name two.

Speaking of limes----Isn't the term "Limey" for a sailor a British term?

Posted by
3182 posts

This time of year ... the lindens are blooming and the air is scented with them

Exactly the reason for the post!

Chris: Interesting list, now the Pink Floyd lyric about not having any pudding makes sense. Not mentioning "tea" as another word for a meal (lunch? dinner?) is an important omission. There are some goofs on the page, since some of the British terms are used in the US as synonyms and completely understood (green pepper, cutlery, skillet). And jam isn't jelly; jam = jam. Jelly is seedless jam. Also, scone = scone, although should it rhyme with gone or loan?

Surprised by the current British use of the word Swede for rutabaga. Swede was the term used in the US by people born in the 1800s, i.e my grandparents, not sure why it changed (curiously to the Swedish word, rutabaga).

Posted by
1063 posts

British sailors were called "limey" by Americans due to the habit of putting lime juice in the drinking water to counteract scurvy.

Posted by
12205 posts

We are hosting guests from the UK right now. They were surprised at the "English muffins" I served with breakfast along with the toast.

Posted by
916 posts

Tom_MN,
In the South, gone and loan and scone all rhyme. At least in my Southern tongue. :)

Posted by
3465 posts

Where I am from in Texas, a linden and a lime are two distinctly different plants.

A tree that produces the lime fruit is a lime tree. Never heard it called anything else. It has green leaves year round and produces fruit usually ripe around late October from blossoms that happen in late March. I had two in my backyard along with a grapefruit tree in Houston. All produced large amounts of fruit for several years until the recent drought.

A linden tree is a decorative tree that sheds it leaves every fall. It doesn't produce any edible fruit I have ever seen, although the flowers and leaves can be eaten for medical purposes so I have been told. The wood from a mature tree is light and resonant when properly dried and makes a great guitar body.

Posted by
1063 posts

" They were surprised at the "English muffins" I served with breakfast along with the toast."

Can't remember the last time I saw "English muffins" over here.

Reminds me of when I stayed with work friend that lived in New York State in the early 90's. His wife said that in honour of my visit we were going to have "London Broil" for dinner, didn't have a clue what it was (mind you, at the time I didn't know "broil" meant grill).

Posted by
3182 posts

Australia appears to use the name Linden as well, probably to avoid the confusion of having different types of lime trees growing in the same locale like Texas, California, etc.

http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s1866659.htm or

http://melbournedaily.blogspot.com/2015/01/melbourne-street-trees-100-linden.html

Celeste: You can't possibly make those words all rhyme, awww and ohhhh sounds are too different! Although my O sound is like a German O or Norwegian Å and nothing like a UK or Southern US O.

Posted by
916 posts

Tom
Everything is awwww to me. :)
I grew up deep in Georgia. My "city" friends used to tease me that pin and pen sound the same when I say them.

Posted by
3182 posts

Mark: it's the flower bracts which are leaflike and can make a medicinal tea. Also there are native lindens (aka basswoods) to North America as well as the "decorative" European littleleaf linden, but not as far south as Houston.

Posted by
1976 posts

In Berlin is the famous street Unter den Linden. Is that the German word for lime? I can't imagine there are many climates in Germany which can support lime trees.

The comments about English muffins made me laugh! The "national" names we Americans have for food fascinate me: French bread (baguettes) and German chocolate cake (what's German about this, exactly?) come to mind right away.

Posted by
3091 posts

My mother used to make " London Broil " , it was a grilled Flank Steak with mustard coating the surface while cooking . It was served thinly sliced , across the grain of the meat . I never knew what the etymology of the name was , but it was delicious .

Posted by
1063 posts

"What on earth is a London broil?"

Precisely my reaction when I was told that we were having it.:-) Another one that stumped me was when I took them out to a restaurant and my friends wife asked me "what entree are you going to have", I told her that I wasn't going to bother with a starter and go straight onto the main course.........I can still see the look of confusion on both their faces to this day.

Posted by
2353 posts

The German's chocolate bar was developed by Ray German - thus - German's Sweet Chocolate - the proper name is possessive. It has been shortened to German Sweet Chocolate in many recipes but the package is still Baker's German's Sweet Chocolate.

Posted by
3182 posts

Looking for clarity on grill and broil.

US broil (verb): to cook with heat coming from above. Food is turned over during cooking (as opposed to roasting where food isn't turned and the heat comes from below). Broasting is roasting with heat coming from above and below.

US grill (verb): to cook over charcoal or gas on a grill-type surface

Also: use of entrée for main course is fading, as is the London Broil.

Posted by
2353 posts

"Celeste: You can't possibly make those words all rhyme, awww and ohhhh sounds are too different! Although my O sound is like a German O or Norwegian Å and nothing like a UK or Southern US O."

@Tom - spent much time in the South? Pronunciation rules do not apply! I have heard "pen" pronounced as "pin" "peen" "pe-an" and "pen"!

Posted by
3091 posts

Well , the London Broil ( as per my mother's practice ) was grilled on a charcoal fire , and broiled in the manner you describe above ( turned while cooking )

Posted by
351 posts

"And jam isn't jelly; jam = jam. Jelly is seedless jam."

Almost. Jelly is strained fruit juice set with pectin. Jam is whole fruit pureed and set with pectin. Preserves is whole fruit, left somewhat chunky and set with pectin.

In everyday parlance the words jelly & jam are used much more often that preserves.

Posted by
3465 posts

London Broil today is mainly a name for a cut of beef, not necessarily the preparation of that cut. It is a very lean piece of beef and is usually marinated and then grilled over a very hot flame. Makes my mouth water just thinking about it. :-)

Posted by
3182 posts

I use broil specially for heat supplied from above only so by definition charcoal cannot be involved. It must be a gas or electric heat source only and performed in an oven like apparatus.

Baking and roasting also take place in ovens but from bottom heat and on a solid support like a dish or sheet.

Grilling takes place outdoors only on a grill surface over open flame (gas, charcoal).

Glad that's all cleared up.

Posted by
1063 posts

"Grilling takes place outdoors only on a grill surface over open flame (gas, charcoal)"

In the U.S. maybe, in the U.K. grilling is done with heat from above, usually on a gas or electric cooker.

Posted by
3182 posts

I'm at a loss as to what outdoor cooking on a grill over an open flame is called in the UK.

Posted by
3182 posts

Got it. I'm thinking barbecuing in the US implies grilling with barbecue sauce? Maybe not. When I was a kid it was called "cooking out" or "having a cookout."

Posted by
2353 posts

Not in Texas it doesn't! And much of the South - barbeque is slow cooked in a smoker with a dry rub - purists will not even serve a sauce in Texas! Sauces vary by region in the South. Cooking over flame or coals is grilling - grilling can also be done indoors with high heat & a grill pan.

Posted by
5975 posts

Oh my goodness, a hornets' nest has been kicked. As Christi said, here in Kansas City, where we take barbecue seriously (noting the variations in spelling), it means cooking "low and slow" with wood smoke. You might put ribs or brisket on the smoker (or a grill turned down low) for a few hours. Just putting a burger or bratwurst on the grill is "grilling", with or without barbecue sauce.

Not sure if basswood is good for smoking.

Posted by
3465 posts

Real barbecue has no sauce involved. Sauce is just a way someone who doesn't know how to barbecue tries to cover their mistakes. ;-)

Posted by
3182 posts

Well I don't know what to make of calling smoking meat barbecuing-- I haven't heard that.

I'm maybe remembering that between the current term grilling and the 60s term cooking out there was a decade or two where I also called cooking meat on a grill over a flame barbecuing.

"with heat from above, usually on a gas or electric cooker" now this confuses me, I thought cooker meant cooktop (or stove) in the UK, never oven?

Posted by
3091 posts

" "with heat from above, usually on a gas or electric cooker" now this confuses me, I thought cooker meant cooktop (or stove) in the UK, never oven? " As far as ovens are concerned , a look at these iconic cookers , the Rolls Royces of these devices , should answer your query . http://www.agaliving.com/buying-an-aga/new-to-aga

Posted by
3182 posts

It doesn't clarify, unless "cooker" can also mean "range" (cooktop/stove and oven in one unit) which would be confusing to me.

Posted by
3091 posts

That is precisely what it means , in British English ; -- )

Posted by
3091 posts

Emma , As my wife has long lusted for an AGA ( ever since Minty Marchmont inherited hers from Simon's mother ) , She will have it once we win the lottery , and I install several steel beams in the floor of the kitchen .

Posted by
3182 posts

So a cooker is not a cooktop/stove, that's called a hob? Not sure why I am trying to sort this out as I will forget soon enough. Maybe I should start a table.

US: Stove (cooktop component of a range) / Cooktop (freestanding, not part of a range) / Range / Burner (gas) / Burner (electric)

UK: Hob / Hob again?? / Cooker / Burner/ Heat plate?

Absolutely never heard of or seen an eye level grill/broiler thingy

I wonder if usage of "stove" or "stovetop" will fade away as cooktops become more common.

Posted by
3182 posts

Well I guess that's enough discussion of the kitchen and food. Never got to the fabulous Aussie term "capsicum" but that's all right, sounds like intestinal ailment anyway.

I suppose we could switch back to trees on whether acer or maple is the proper name for that tree, but probably just let it rest.

Posted by
12205 posts

Capsicum is Aussie? Isn't that also British? We were very pleased by how cheap they were in London at the nearby Tesco---a 3-pack of nice red ones for 85p. That same trio would be $5.99 here in Seattle.