Please sign in to post.

Girlfriend and I are going to England/Wales - please give your thoughts on our potential itinerary.

Hi everyone,

My lovely girlfriend and I (both Canadian citizens) are planning to go visit England/Wales sometime in late July or early August for two weeks. Now we have done a fair bit of research and we think it would cost about $3500-4500 CAD per person (it's easy to forget with the 20% VAT too).

We're worked out a rough itinerary and yes, we will be renting a car (an automatic car, we cannot drive with a manual transmission). We cannot do more than two weeks due to work commitments. This is our first overseas trip as a couple (we will have been dating for just over 2 years).

Day 1-3: Flight in and go around London

Day 4: Hampton Court Palace and Windsor Castle

Day 5: Didcot/Swindon (Great Western Railway steam trains)

Day 6: Castle Combe/Bath - Rent car from Bath

Day 7: Tintern Abbey/Caerphilly Castle/Chepstow Castle or Big Pit Museum

Day 8: Big Pit Museum/Hay-on-Wye book town/end at Gladstone's Library (Chester)

Day 9: Zip World Bethesda/Llangollen Canal Ride

Day 10: Snowdon Mountain Railway/Fairy Glen (Betws-y-Coed) walk around

Day 11: Chester (Cathedral/The Rows/Shopping/Roman Ruins)

Day 12: York (NRM, The Shambles)

Day 13: York (York Minister, The Dungeon, other stuff), Drop car off & train to Portsmouth

Day 14: Portsmouth: HMS Victory & visit with relatives

Day 15: Train to London and flight out

Let us know what you think (tips, advice, constructive criticism).

Thank you in advance.

Posted by
28249 posts

It will be easier for people to comment on the appropriateness of your budget if you tell us what you expect to spend excluding trans-Atlantic airfare. Flights vary so much in cost.

Posted by
1878 posts

I have been to the England a couple of times on vacation with my wife (2000 and 2013), plus a couple of times staying over in London after business trips. London is a solid five nights, four full days kind of city. York, I would slow down and give it three nights and two full days. Same for Bath. Isn't York to Portsmouth going to take you the better part of a day to get there (check on bahn.de)? We dipped into southern Wales on our 2013 trip. Tintern Abbey was closed but we could see it from the outside--I am unclear why it's so famous except for the Wordsworth poem, but maybe I just don't appreciate the history. Chepstow Castle was also closing by the time we got there (sigh) but we got to peek inside, and walk around it. It's an utterly awesome castle if you like castles. I have never been to Chester but I have always thought it looks great, and was recommended to be by a native. Overall seems like you are covering a lot of ground and you might want to scale it back a bit. It's not clear how many nights you are sleeping where, but be careful about one night stays which can be tiring. Also unless you are an up an at 'em early bird, and an efficient packer, packing to get going after breakfast can chew up a chunk of the morning on a short stay. You might want to reconsider the timing, as a veteran of 16 Europe trips not counting business, I have never gone in high season. Of course maybe you are going at this time of year for personal or work reasons, which is understandable.

Posted by
2599 posts

York is worth seeing but is the one place that is really going out of your way compared to the other places. York to Portsmouth is a long trip taking most of the day - and it would involve crossing London on the tune as the train arrives in King’s Cross but leaves from Waterloo for Portsmouth. The alternative is a direct Cross Country train to Winchester or Southampton and then the short hop to Portsmouth. (Do London last).

To save time/travelling, I would land at Heathrow - take the bus link to Woking rail station from where you can catch a train direct to Portsmouth. Once you have stayed with relatives, you can take a direct train from Portsmouth to Bath but might like to consider stopping off at Salisbury - which has a medieval Cathedral. A shuttle bus links Salisbury station with Stonehenge.

If going to Caerphilly Castle, you might like to stay in Cardiff - which is 1 hour by train from Bath. (Caerphilly > Cardiff trains every 15 minutes except Sundays). Staying in Cardiff means you have 3 other castles in the area = Cardiff, Castell Coch & St.Fagans.

You could then pick up the hire car in Cardiff & either head up the A470 to north Wales or go via Chepstow & Tintern Abbey. Raglan Castle is also in the area but be careful on exit if heading west towards Abergavenny for Big Pit - look at road configuration on Google Earth. Alternatively, you could skip Caerphilly Castle & Cardiff & hire a car in Bath and do Chepstow Castle > Tintern Abbey > Raglan Castle > Big Pit > overnight in Brecon area before heading to north Wales.

I would skip Didcot & Swindon. Far better to take a steam train ride on the Llangollen Railway - more scenic. Also visit the nearby Pontcysyllte aqueduct - a wonder of the Victorian age!
http://www.visitwales.com/things-to-do/attractions/castles-heritage/world-heritage-sites/pontcysyllte-aqueduct

You are going at peak season - when the schools have shut. Demand for accommodation will be high as will prices. Best to go in May or June but just be sure to avoid the 1 week when the schools are closed during this period.

In north Wales, try and see Caernarfon Castle and Conwy (Conway Castle). Also, Bodnant Gardens. If you like steam railways check out:> www.festrail.co.uk

If I were you, I'd write out your itinerary and include travel times. You'll need to add at least 25% to any google map times, to allow for congestion (our roads are WAY more congested than in Canada, and driving is not something most British people would do for pleasure.) Whenever you're visiting a larger town or city, also allow yourself a bit of time to find a car park.

Then do a realistic assessment of how much time you'll spend in the car versus outside of it. At the moment it looks like the in-car time would win!

And I can't emphasise enough how stressful driving in the UK can be. One small shunt on a motorway gets magnified by the amount of traffic on the road and can cause major hold-ups. Indeed you will often hear the phrase "sheer weight of traffic" to explain road hold-ups on radio travel news bulletins.

Posted by
6113 posts

As has already been stated, you are trying to cover far too much ground. Hampton Court and Windsor are both full day trips out of London.

Drop York or the Welsh element, as you need to trim your schedule, even though both are interesting. I visited Big Pit in September and it was fascinating, but we spent 5 hours there and rushed some of the external parts as it was raining.

You have too many 1 night stays in August, which in popular places such as Snowdonia maybe a problem. Don't underestimate the length of time you will spend on the road. It costs more for two people to be insured to drive and your current schedule is no fun for just one driver.

Posted by
8293 posts

Your Day 15 says "train to London and flight out". It is not a good idea to return to London from Portsmouth by train on the day of your flight. You still have to get to Heathrow (or Gatwick), likely from Waterloo Station and anything could go wrong. Flights to my part of Canada usually leave the U.K. somewhere around mid-day and you will need to be at the airport 3 hours before departure. You should re-think this.

If you can only drive automatic gear shift, make sure when you book your car that you are guaranteed an automatic.

Posted by
2599 posts

You might find a cheaper flight into a non London airport with Air Transat?

Posted by
31 posts

If you do leave Bath in your plans you might consider Mad Max Tours. We did the Stonehenge, Avebury, Castle Combe, Lacock tour with them in May 2016. It was a full day 7:30 am to suppertime but it was a highlight of our trip.

Posted by
220 posts

I agree with the other posters..too rushed..The last day there is no way in heck you can train to London + fly out the same day without wanting to kill yourself or possibly miss your flight.

Day 4: Hampton Court Palace and Windsor Castle- possible but painful. Its a LOT to see. I did this last year, its exhausting. Hampton Court by itself can take 4 hours.

Day 5: Swindon- Swindon is kind of boring imo- I'd cut it and spend an extra day in Bath.

Day 7- Wait you are going all the way to Wales and ONLY seeing Caerphilly Castle and NOT Caenarfon? Whaaat? No Conwy?

Day 8- If zips are your thing-- I think you should check out Penrhyn Estate/Castle and Beaumaris...its amazing.

Chester? - thats way out of the way as other posters have noticed...same with Portsmouth....cut both you might be onto something...

Cost? I think your estimate is dastardly low. It will cost you about $4000 USD to $5000 USD pp if you want to eat at decent places and buy anything- so 5308.00 Canadian dollars (at least).

Posted by
7175 posts

You need to free up some time to slow things down a little. I would drop York.
Head to Portsmouth first up after arriving in London. From there pick ip your car and drive to Bath, possibly via Stonehenge. Return the car in Chester and return to London by train for a few days before flying home.

We have revised the itinerary again:

Day 1-4: Flight into London (Heathrow) and touring London - Airbnb

Day 5: Train from Paddington/Windsor Castle/Swindon (Great Western Railway Museum)/End in Portsmouth - stay with relatives

Day 6: Portsmouth - visit relatives

Day 7: Train from Portsmouth/Salisbury Cathedral/Stonehenge (future SWIMBO's request = not removing it)/End in Bath - Airbnb

Day 8: Train to Didcot (Great Western Steam Day)/Night in Bath - Airbnb

Day 9: Tour Bath/Night in Bath - Airbnb

Day 10: Bath/Rent car from Bath/Castle Combe/End at Thornbury Castle Hotel

Day 11: Drive to Tintern Abbey/Caerphilly Castle/End and stay at Gladstone's Library (I am aware that it would be a 4 hour drive from South to North Wales).

Day 12: Drive from Gladstone's Library to ZipWorld Bethesda/Walk around Snowdonia (ideally the Fairy Glen/Betws-y-coed)/End in Crewe - stay with friends

Day 13: Day trip with friends to Snowdon Mountain Railway/Caernarfon Castle/End in Crewe - stay with friends

Day 14: Early train from Crewe to York/Tour NRM/York Minister - Airbnb

Day 15: Other York things and train back to London - Airbnb

Day 16: Leave London for Hampton Court Palace and Flight out from Heathrow (Flight would leave at 6pm, so if we got to HCP for 10am, I think we would have enough time).

Now when you look at it, the revised itinerary is a big improvement on the original. For most of the trip, we would be sleeping in the same bed for more than one night (four nights in London, two nights in Portsmouth, three nights in Bath and two nights in Crewe). There are some long days for sure (Day 5 and Day 11 in particular), but there are also quite a few relaxing days (Days 6-10, Day 13). Also, when we come back, we will have a day of rest as we will fly back on a Sunday and the Monday is a civic holiday.

Posted by
2599 posts

I went to the Great Western Museum in Swindon last September. Basically, you have part of the old locomotive works turned into a museum. Nothing is in steam. The National Railway Museum in York is much better. Just west of the GWR museum is another part of the old works - turned into an outlet mall. The GWR mainline to south Wales is being electrified.

2 years ago, I went on the Snowdon Mountain Railway. Note that demand is high and places limited. If the weather is poor, you will end up in the clouds. I went up in perfect weather & took pot luck & just managed to get a seat. The building just below the summit offers protection in the event of bad weather. The ride is well worth it. Note that you pay extra if you want a steam locomotive and the vintage carriage does not have opening windows. It looks like the diesel pushed carriages do have opening windows = best for photos.

On day 10, you should be able to also throw in Dyrham Park (NT) - but see Castle Combe first. (Roads between Bath & Castle Combe are narrow. Follow route on Google Earth to get familiar with it).

On day 11, I would delete Caerphilly Castle as you are going too far out of your way - and the M4 around Newport frequently jams up. Instead, leave Thornbury and take B4461 to cross the Severn (toll) Bridge and go into Chepstow. Park in car park by castle and walk around the corner onto the bridge over the Wye for a good view of the castle. (It also work taking a photo of this bridge as it is one of the World’s oldest iron bridges). When you leave Chepstow Castle car park, go into the one way system along narrow streets. It would pay to look at the roads on Google Earth as to how you get to the A466 for Tintern - as it is confusing.

On Day 11, after Tintern (delete Caerphilly), you are heading for Hawarden for the Gladstone Library. So, it sounds like you are into steam engines & books? The quickest way to go would be A466 to Monmouth > A40 eastbound for about 4 miles and then left onto A4137 to eventually join A49 for Hereford. Now, Hereford can be pretty congested but you might like to make a stop to see Hereford Cathedral.https://www.herefordcathedral.org

Going north up the A49, it is well worth calling in at Ludlow = real Ye Olde England! www.ludlow.org
Just north of Ludlow on the A49 is >
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/stokesay-castle/

Shrewsbury is also of interest - use the Park & Ride if you wish to visit.

Proceed north on A5 & A483 though may like to make a slight detour to see the Pontcysyllte Aqueduct. The area around Hawarden is not very interesting and a bit industrial.

An alternative to the above is to go from Monmouth via Midlands (M50 & M5) & see:> http://www.svr.co.uk on way to Crewe.

Another alternative to the above is to go from Monmouth west on the A40 to Abergavenny and then via Crickhowell for A479 and A470 which will take you through the scenic heart of Wales direct to Snowdonia*. (This would be my choice and I would stay in NW Wales on the nights of Day 11 & 12. (Your plan has too much travelling from Crewe to Snowdonia). When you stay with friends in Crewe, that is when I would visit the Gladstone Library and I would combine that with historic Chester - which is virtually on the doorstep.
* You may be interested in going to Aberystwyth for an overnight and see:> https://www.llgc.org.uk
& www.rheidolrailway.co.uk

If you buy a ticket from Crewe to York, it will cost you £46.20 - whether you pay on the day or advance book. Do this:> Advance book (about 10 weeks ahead) CRE > MANchester - which can be as low as £3. Then pre-book MAN > YRK - which can be as low as £10.50. Note that this is for specific trains - so make sure you match up the timings for the change of train at Manchester Piccadilly. Be sure to also pre book YRK > KGX & PAD > SWI.

Posted by
30 posts

For York, you could easily spend a morning going around the Railway Museum but for the Shambles you will literally need five minutes and that includes stopping to take photos! There are lots of other old and interesting passageways and streets that you could do as a walk which includes the Shambles, some of which are not on the well trodden path. Give me a shout if you want me to post a route - which will naturally involve some old pubs as well of course!

Posted by
5467 posts

If you have some spare time in Didcot you could take a walk into the old village centre (opposite direction to the modern one - cross the road outside the railway station, walk up to the next street and turn right) - there is one of the oldest willow trees in the country in the church yard, and a few buildings from the 16th-17th centuries. They are well hidden from today's through road, and feel just like many other small Berks/Oxon villages, only with a town built round them ...

Or since you are a railway buff if you turn left from the station and continue up station road (cross over at the next traffic lights) you come to the workers' cottages, built by the GWR in 1904. Much later and less extensive than the better known ones in Swindon, they are interesting in that they subtly get smaller the further you go from the station, for people of 'lesser importance' in the railway hierarchy, starting with the head of the permanent way, though engine drivers and finally signalmen, booking office, and the telegraph men. They are all privately owned these days, but planning means that they are all largely as they were externally.

Swindon and Didcot gives a much better perspective on the GWR than the National Museum in York IMO - indeed the former houses a proportion of the National Collection, and the latter has much that is unique, such as the working steam railmotor.

emma:
The point for the Snowdon Mountain Railway and Caernarfon Castle day is to have a day trip with our friends. We could drop the car off in Crewe the day before and then we would travel in their car. So we would save a night and a hotel room and another day with the rental car.

We've revised our itinerary.

Here is our itinerary so far:
Day 1-4: Overnight flight from Canada into London (Heathrow) and touring London - Airbnb
Day 5: Day trip to Oxford - back to London
Day 6: Harry Potter World/End in Portsmouth - stay with relatives
Day 7: Portsmouth - visit relatives
Day 8: Train from Portsmouth/Salisbury Cathedral/Stonehenge/End in Bath - Airbnb
Day 9: Tour Bath/Night in Bath - Airbnb
Day 10: Train to Didcot/Didcot (Great Western Railway Museum)/Night in Bath - Airbnb
Day 11: Bath/Rent car from Bath/Castle Combe/End at Thornbury Castle Hotel
Day 12: Drive to Tintern Abbey/Caerphilly Castle/End in Brecon area.
Day 13: Easy drive to Gladstone's Library via the A470/Stay at Gladstone's Library
Day 14: Ziplining at ZipWorld Bethesda/Caernarfon Castle/End in Crewe - stay with friends
Day 15: Day trip with friends to Snowdon Mountain Railway/End in Crewe - stay with friends
Day 16: Easy trip back to London from Crewe via train - Airbnb
Day 17: Milling around London before we fly out.

Posted by
2599 posts

Day 12: I would not go to Caerphilly Castle - fine though it is. The reason I say this is because you will have to drive into a more congested area of south Wales. Click this link to a map of SE Wales:> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7258313,-2.7947344,11z/data=!5m1!1e1

When you leave Thornbury, you will head for the M48 Severn Bridge & leave at the first junction on the Welsh side. Drive into Chepstow & take a look at Chepstow Castle - the head up the A466 towards Tintern. Can you see the village of St.Arvans? If you take the first (single track road to Wycliff) left after passing through this village (not the turn in the village). After about half a mile - park in the car park on your R. Follow the track that goes up a steady incline for about 15 minutes to where it levels off & turn R. (It looks like you will go over a cliff but you soon see steps to a viewing platform). This is the Eagle’s Nest viewpoint - spectacular views over the Wye Valley. Then return to A466 & proceed to Tintern.

After Tintern, continue up the Wye Valley (A466). Can you see ‘Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty’ written near top of map? If you zoom down & figure out how to reach that area, you will reach the Yat Rock viewpoint. You can then return to Monmouth by double backing or proceed down the hill on a very narrow road to cross the Wye & turn left to reach expressway (A40) & head west.

Now find Raglan on the map. Raglan has a ruined castle. Zoom down & look at the road configuration. You will need to loop around from a roundabout. Be careful when you leave the castle as you have to initially turn left (east) and then switch to A40 westbound for Abergavenny. Then follow A40 via Crickhowell up to Brecon through glorious countryside.