Please sign in to post.

First time abroad - Itinerary critique, please

Hello all

I've been lurking here for awhile now; I've learned a lot. Now, I'm finally mustering the courage to post.
My wife and I are taking our first trip outside North America next May. Two weeks out, including a stop-over in Iceland. I've read a lot of itineraries on these boards that seem pretty... enthusiastic and many readers express caution and moderation. Now, I'm starting to wonder if I'm too mellow. I would greatly appreciate if you would take a look and let me know your thoughts. Of course, there are plenty of things to see along the way, but want to hit the high points of where we would spend more than a stop-sigh-click-move on.

  1. Day one. Arrive Heathrow Sunday 11am. Two hours to clear customs. Train to Windsor. (We're touring Oakley Court for an hour instead of HRM's castle. Bets on how long we can do the Time Warp in the main hall before we're escorted out). Continue to Bath. Collapse in Bath after the XX hour flight. Staying at a simple chain hotel because after that long of a flight, we don't want quaint, we want sleep.
  2. Day two. Lion Bus Tour of Stonehenge, Glastonbury and Wells (found a link to the Hot Fuzz Walking Tour of Wells. Gotta love it.) Muck around Bath upon return (staying in same hotel)
  3. Day three. Train to Penrith and bus to Keswick. Wander around Keswick including Castlerigg Stone Circle. Spend the evening with the Druids drinking strange fermented fluids (running naked through the wuids optional).
  4. Day four. Take the local bus (77) that loops anti-clockwise from Keswick to Seatoller (via Buttermere). Start hiking north via Castle Crag. In Manesty, if we're feeling worn, we can take the boat back to Keswick, otherwise keep marching north via Catbells.
  5. Day five. Local bus to Carlisle, train to Bardon Mill. Visit Vindolanda. Stay in Once Brewed.
  6. Day six. Hike the wall from Steel Rigg east (possibly skipping Housesteads) ending at either the Mithraeum west of Chollerford or Chollerford Museum proper, then bus back to Once Brewed via the AD122 bus.
  7. Day seven. Bus to Hexham. Train to York. Walk the Walls and see Diagon Alley... I mean the Shambles. Continue to London, arriving in the evening. Found a cool Air b&b near Regent's Park.
  8. Day eight. Tube/train to Kew Gardens. River boat back to London. Possibly tour Saint Pauls? Ceremony of the Keys that night.
  9. Day nine. Westminster Abbey, Changing of the Horse Guards, lunch at the Cafe in the Crypt, then walk north via Trafalgar and Piccadilly, arriving and spending the rest of the day at the British Museum. (Yes, I know, one can spend a lifetime there.)
  10. Day ten. Tower of London (As the RS mobs cry See the Crown Jewels first!). Lunch at Borough Market. Wife spends the afternoon at the Tate Modern. I go to The Globe. If it's running, see a show at the Globe that night.
  11. Day eleven. Leave London at 900, tube to Heathrow for a 1300 flight, fly to Rekyavik.
  12. Day twelve. Bus tour of the Golden Circle, ending at Fontana Wellness spa.
  13. Day thirteen (Friday). Fly home to Seattle. Flight leaves at 1100 local and arrives at approximately 1100 local. Stagger home and sleep for three days.

Thanks to all who leave good feedback!
Daniel

Posted by
33997 posts

Too mellow?

That's a lot of one night stays - something I try really hard to avoid.

It looks pretty ambitious to me.

Number 1, take a bus to Windsor..., If you take the train to Paddington and then another out via Slough to Windsor you are backtracking virtually the entire journey.

Posted by
110 posts

Sorry, Nigel. My poor explaining. We're only staying in four places across ten nights.
Two nights each in Bath, Keswick, and Once Brewed. Four nights in London. Does that change anything?

Thanks for the advice on the bus to Windsor (#77!). Hadn't thought about that.

Cheers!

Posted by
30 posts

Given my location then I'll restrict my input to Day 7.

I'll not comment on what may turn out to be half a day travelling from one end of the country to the other as I guess you can access all the travel data over there but since you are limiting what you see in York then perhaps what I write below might help you out.

I always find going round our wall clockwise to be best (having in the past combined this with pub crawls for my work colleagues!)

If you leave the station then turn left and walk down and up over the bridge. Go straight on almost up to the Minster and then turn left heading out toward Bootham Bar. A 10 min walk. There are stairs there on the left that take you up onto the wall itself and the 10 min walk on this section has nice views both sides. You'll then have to come off the wall at Monk Bar, going down a dark narrow sallyport. There is a really nice tapas bar a few seconds walk up the road if you needed refreshment.

Go back onto the wall just across the road where you came off until it breaks again a Jewbury. The wall is not actually broken here but it never existed as in the middle ages they dammed the River Foss to create a "fishpool" (only for the residents of the castle though!). You can catch the wall when it starts again further down Foss Islands Road, however, this is not the most scenic part of York and can be quite a let down. Instead you could take a right following the road past the Black Swan all the way to Pavement where the Shambles will be on your right. Its only a 5 min walk. After the Shambles then go back to Pavement and the street ahead is Fossgate, a charming place with lots of restaurants and pubs. Walk down it (have a look at the medieval merchant adventurers house gardens through a tunnel on your right) and keep walking and after 10 mins you will rejoin the wall at the Barbican, up the steps to your right. Eventually it will break again, this time due to the castle and the river. Go past the old entrance to the castle (the entrance now bricked up from the main road side) and walk along a rather busy and uninviting road which curves to the right and then you'll see Clifford's Tower, the old keep to the castle. Then cross the road on your left and walk through the small tree lined park, where feuding gentlemen used to have duels, to the Skeldergate bridge where some steps will take you up to the road. Cross the bridge and on the other side you will see the Wall starts back up again. This is Baille Hill, where the Conqueror had his other castle, now just a tree lined mound.

A 10 min walk, staying on the wall will take you all the way just past the Station, which you'll see from above on your left. Just past it you can come off and then walk back up the road to the station. That route, done leisurely and including refreshment stops, shouldn't take more than 3/4 hours (presuming you don't go into the Minster, Cliffords Tower or venture into the town!)and allow you plenty of time to take that 2 hour train to London.

Like any tourist town, there are tourist traps in relation to refreshment places, so let me know if you would like recommendation of pubs and/or cafes.

Posted by
110 posts

Emma - Yes, thanks. We're going to try to squeeze between the two bank holidays. If all goes well, we will arrive on the 15th and depart on the 25th. (As a bonus, we'll spend my birthday at the Globe. I'll be the groundling with tears streaming down my face.)

I knew about the bank holidays but the half-term is a surprise. I'll have to research more. Thanks!

And yes, the Bath to Keswick trip will be a bit of a slow go. But if my wife can sleep through my snoring, I'll wager she can sleep through the train trip if needs be.

Posted by
7175 posts

Without a car, and with limited time, I don't see how you can enjoy your admirably intended experience.
I would leave the Lake District and Hadrian's Wall for a future visit to Scotland.
York may be easier as a stand alone overnight from London.
Day 1 - Salisbury
Day 2 - Bath
Day 3 - Cotswolds
Day 4 - Oxford
Day 5-8 - London
Day 9 - York
Day 10 - London

Posted by
110 posts

Odd you say that, as I based it off our illustrious host's eleven day England trip

  • 3 days: London
  • 5 days, add: Bath and nearby sights (take a minibus tour ... Stonehenge, Avebury, Wells, Glastonbury, and Salisbury)
  • 7 days, add: Cotswolds
  • 9 days, add: York
  • 11 days, add: Lake District

only substituting the Wall in lieu of the Cotswolds.

My initial defensiveness aside, I hear what you and others are saying and I will look into trimming what I can.
Thank you.

Posted by
7175 posts

RS also says ...
While this...itinerary is designed to be done by car, it can also be done by train and bus. .... Lacing together the cities by train is very slick, and buses get you where the trains don't go. With more time, everything is workable without a car.

Posted by
14822 posts

I am not an expert, however I did walk to Castlerigg from Keswick this Fall on the free day we had on Rick's Best of England tour. It is not right in town and is a fairly significant uphill hike to get to the circle. It was worth it and the people at the Tourist Information can give you a map and directions. They suggested I take the Keswick Railway Path which goes part of the way to the circle before you have to get back on main road. Anyway, I think it took me 2-2.5 hours to walk up there and back plus have a bit of time at the stones. I would be surprised if after the train trip from Bath that you have time left on that day to do it.

I did not hike Catbells, but I also suggest that you make the decision on this hike on the current weather conditions. It started out rainy and foggy on our full day and the RS guide was advising against hiking in those conditions. The afternoon did clear up so the view from Castlerigg wound up being beautiful.

Your time in Bath is not leaving you any time in Bath. The tour you've picked is an all day tour so you will not have time to tour the Roman Baths which close around 5 or 530 (not sure the actual time). You can certainly walk up to the Royal Crescent and see some of the Georgian architecture as well as seeing Bath Abbey from the outside. You have your reasons for wanting to see Glastonbury but I would suggest you cut this in favor of spending at least 1/2 a day in Bath. I do enjoy Stonehenge and there are 1/2 day tours there which can give you some time to actually see things in Bath. I enjoyed Wells Cathedral a lot, but basing things on my interests (which surely are not yours, lol!) the Roman Baths were more interesting than Wells Cathedral and WAY more interesting than Glastonbury. I did enjoy Salisbury Cathedral which it looks like you also see on your full day tour but again, for a first time visitor with an interest in Roman Britain, the Roman Baths are very interesting.

Even though you are using Rick's template, I agree with others that you are trying to cover too much territory and not giving yourselves time to actually see and enjoy some things.

Posted by
824 posts

Just a few comments.

First - London is a spectacular city and one can spend two weeks there and still feel like they've only scratched the surface.

Second, Kew Gardens is a whole day event, especially considering the time it takes for the commute, if you truly love/enjoy botanical gardens. I don't think you'll have time to do Kew and get back to St Paul’s in time. I suggest pairing St Paul’s with Borough Market...

Third, if you take in all that the Tower of London has to offer, it is more than just a "morning" visit. Again, I recommend pairing St Paul’s with Borough Market.

Posted by
6 posts

It sounds like the focus of your trip is on getting to see places that have a strong resonance for you based on personal cultural references, and that is a really fun idea for organising a trip. My only suggestion is that if you also want to interact with local people other than the tourism services people and other tourists in the places you are dashing through, you probably won't get a chance. If you want more interaction and a since of the vibe of a place, I'd cut in half the numer of places you are trying to go and spend more time in the ones remaining: have tea, spend an evening in the pubs, etc. It is tempting to try to see a lot when you fly so far, so I do understand that, but you will be really flying through the places you visit. But, again, it is really about what your goals are. Enjoy! I love the Hot Fuzz Walking Tour idea!
-Sabrina

Posted by
6552 posts

I'm with Sabrina. Remember that Rick also says "Assume you will return." I love your comments and your style, (I missed a few of your cultural references. Damn.), but slow down and smell the ale. We're planning to be there about the same time you are; see you at the Globe!