British passport Update

Digging deep into travel.state.gov I found the information regarding dual British nationality but we would not have even thought to look as my husband was unaware of his dual status.

I'm mindful of the forum rules about not encouraging lawbreaking, and that is NOT my intention, but I am curious about what would happen if someone in this situation just went ahead and traveled with their US passport and ETA. It seems unlikely the airline would have any question about it, assuming the ETA was still valid, so the person would likely get to the UK port of entry. And if the inspector there questioned citizenship based on the UK birth, and determined the person was a UK citizen, what then? They're a UK citizen on British soil so surely they could not be denied entry. I know that in an analogous US situation, which does happen as we've had that same rule for decades, the inspector could levy a fine, but is much more likely just to give a stern warning to get a passport next time they travel; assuming the traveler answered questions truthfully to the best of their knowledge so they wouldn't be penalized for making any false statements to the inspector.

This was in the article.

They said that since February “all dual British citizens have needed to present either a valid British passport or certificate of entitlement when travelling to the UK. Without one, carriers cannot verify British citizenship, which may lead to delays or refused boarding.”

It seems to be very clear that if you have dual citizenship in the UK and elsewhere, you need to have a valid British passport or a certificate of entitlement to have all your bases covered.

When you board in the US the airlines verify your US passport for two reasons. One, so you can return to the US and two, the airline knows you have a valid passport to enter the destination country. Perhaps the British government has given instructions to airlines flying to the UK that all travelers go through some database to see if there is dual citizenship. If your husband has dual citizenship, he could be denied boarding unless he has a valid British passport or the certificate of entitlement.

Have you contacted the British embassy in the US for clarification. It sounds like they would expedite a British passport for you. In addition, i would contact your airline you are using to find out their procedures.

Best of luck.

Slate, we would not dream of attempting that. We have already spent a good amount of money on this trip to risk being turned away at the airport.

Threadware - I have contacted the British embassy as soon as I was aware of this situation and they confirmed that my husband needs a British passport. We have submitted his passport application to the UK online, have obtained passport photos to the UK specifications and had someone verify that he is who he says he is. We are trying to comply with all the rules but know that at any point things could go awry as with any bureaucracy regarding correct paperwork. Hopefully we don’t have to start from square one again. I am posting this on the forum so that anyone who may be unaware of this situation of dual citizenship has a heads up prior to travel to the UK or possibly elsewhere. We did not know until a few days ago that my husband was a dual citizen. We thought his naturalization as a US citizen ended his British citizenship.

That is useful information. I certainly didn’t mean to suggest you would circumvent any requirements just because of my question expressing curiosity about what might happen if someone did, especially since there are some who, like your husband until recently, are unaware they are dual citizens and might well get into the situation of arriving in the UK without that passport. In my former employment I spent decades dealing with US citizenship law so I’m well aware that dual citizenship can be confusing. When someone naturalizing as a US citizen takes the oath, they do explicitly renounce any allegiance to any foreign sovereign. But there is no attempt to further “enforce” this from the US perspective, such as requiring surrender of a foreign passport. This is so for two reasons. First, US law can’t dictate who a foreign country considers to be their citizen. Second, if someone is a US citizen, any foreign citizenship they may claim or possess is, for purposes of US law, basically irrelevant. It does not affect in any way their rights and responsibilities as Americans. But of course another country like the UK, if its law permits continued citizenship despite naturalization in a foreign country (some countries allow this, some don’t), has the opposite perspective about which citizenship legally matters and what are its rights and responsibilities. I actually kind of envy your husband, despite your current inconvenience, as I would love to have a second good citizenship such as UK.

Thanks, Slate. I do not think he would have even been allowed to board the plane to get to the UK in November. At the naturalization ceremony, my husband had to return his green card to the court. That was it. His baby passport was long gone. We are very proud of his British citizenship and heritage. I have been posting this information on the forum for others who are naturalized American citizens to alert them to possible difficulties of traveling to their home country with a passport for that country. I hope this helps someone else. We would not have known any of this and arrived at the airport and been denied boarding except for the fact that my husband’s nephew had pursued his British citizenship by descent causing me to search this forum re dual citizenship and then a phone call to the British embassy which confirmed that he needed a British passport. Our daughter can also acquire her British passport as per the UK passport website she qualifies. It is a confusing process but the British passport office has been sending my husband updates on his application by text and email. Edited to add that we sent his documents to the UK by priority mail which is another expense on top of the passport application. After all is said and done it might end up being just as expensive as the UK digital Certificate of Entitlement to Right of Abode that Simon mentioned in my previous post.

This and your companion post have left me a bit puzzled.

As part of the ETA application process, do you not have to send/transmit a copy of your US passport?
The US passport shows 'place of birth'.

I wonder why, in your husband's case, that wasn't caught during the application/screening process and reject the application?

Seems to be a problem with the system and not something you did that was 'wrong'.

Hope all goes well going forward.

It doesn’t look to me like anyone did anything wrong. The OP’s husband applied for the ETA in good faith as a US citizen and it was granted. When they learned more information they are taking necessary action to put them in compliance with UK travel requirements. Should the ETA system have automatically denied them based on the passport showing UK birth? Not necessarily. The UK citizenship law isn’t simply birthright citizenship for everyone, it’s quite complicated depending on status of parents, when the person was born, etc. So someone born in the UK may very well not be a British citizen. The ETA system needs to quickly process millions of applications to determine primarily whether someone is a security risk. I doubt it’s well designed to bog cases down in detailed citizenship inquiries speculatively based just on a passport indicator of birthplace, and arbitrary denials wouldn’t be good either.

Joe, I don’t remember exactly what info was asked for on the ETA application but I do know we answered every question honestly. I think those ETA’s are looking for criminal elements more than anything imho.

As part of the ETA application process, do you not have to send/transmit a copy of your US passport?
The US passport shows 'place of birth'. I wonder why, in your husband's case, that wasn't caught during the application/screening process and reject the application? Seems to be a problem with the system and not something you did that was 'wrong'.

Yes you scan your passport, both by photo, and by scanning the RFID chip.

Should the system have questioned the application? Maybe raised a flag, sure, but being born in the UK does not grant citizenship, that comes from your parents. My sister was born in Spain, but had no right to claim citizenship there.

In the OPs case, they simply did not consider him a citizen anymore.

As for what would have happened if he unknowingly went ahead and traveled with his US passport and ETA, not sure. If a person looked at the passport, or the e-gates flagged him, they likely would ask questions, and probably come to the conclusion he was a citizen. What that might mean for penalties, maybe nothing, chalk it up to new rules and an honest mistake, or maybe serious problems.

Paul, his passport may have raised questions which we would have answered honestly. Do they have access to a database of UK births they could access quickly? Would they make him turn around and come back to the US immediately? Detain him? Fines? I don’t know.

speaking of security, I saw a recent news story about a caddie for a US golfer who couldn’t go work at the British Open because he was denied an ETA. He had traveled to the UK repeatedly before, but the system picked up a past conviction, quite a while ago, for drug trafficking for which he had received a 10 year prison sentence. The tenor of the article was gee, poor guy, how could they do that? My reaction was that while I support rehabilitation, pretty much any country on earth would deny entry for that, the US certainly does, and if they didn’t catch that before ETA, well, that’s a good reason to have implemented ETA. And further, maybe I’m just naive about professional golf, but why should any US guy have a lucrative, if temporary gig caddying at a UK golf tournament when there undoubtedly are plenty of capable local caddies who know the course intimately?

Slate, one thing I do remember about the ETA is that they ask about any criminal convictions as they are looking to weed out any miscreants. Did the guy lie about those on the ETA and think he wouldn’t be caught?

And further, maybe I’m just naive about professional golf, but why should any US guy have a lucrative, if temporary gig caddying at a UK golf tournament when there undoubtedly are plenty of capable local caddies who know the course intimately?

😊 Yes Slate, you are naive about professional golf. Caddies for professional golfers are really not temporary gigs. They probably spend more time with the golfer than his own family sometimes. Tiger Woods employed Steve Williams from New Zealand for 12 years during his biggest success years. It is estimated Williams may have earned 9 million dollars during that time.

Sorry I digressed on the real subject. Good luck Mary, sounds like things are moving forward for your husband to get his British passport.

The UK passport for my husband is in process with a hiccup. He applied for a passport renewal as he thought that he had a British passport when he was a toddler but that was inaccurate per the passport office. He was on his father’s passport. He has had to now apply for a first adult passport. Thankfully the UK passport office is refunding his original passport application fee and is simply transferring the doc’s he had originally sent in (UK birth certificate, full copy of US passport and copy of US passport photo page of the person verifying his identity) to the new passport application. They needed his parents’ birth info and marriage certificate info but not the doc’s. My husband is by British law a birthright citizen as he was born in the UK in 1948. That law changed in 1983. The passport office said things are quiet at the moment and his passport application should be processed in the next couple of weeks.

This article, https://apple.news/A1YcyCUf1T725FEuRNu5rsg which Mary added to her 'update' mentions that because the daughter had turned 16 , govt. officials could no longer talk to the father about getting her UK passport.

The sources I can find indicate the age of majority in the UK is 18.

Can someone shed light on this?

Don't mean to sidetrack this but, as a tourist, but do 16 and 17 year old have some different 'rights' in the UK?

Good to read OP is getting their situation resolved.

My dad and I went through the UK passport application process this past spring. For reference he is a UK citizen by birth, but also American and Canadian by naturalization (he was born to a British mother and an American soldier father and moved to the US as an infant at the end of WWII. He later moved to Canada as an adult and took citizenship before I was born). I am therefore a citizen by descent. For both of us, the process took about 5-6 weeks each inclusive of mailing and processing time. You should be fine if you have 4 months to go. Thankfully, my dad had seen a clip on the local dinner time news about the time the legislation went into effect and started the process shortly after.

We both travelled on our British passports in July to the UK for a family cruise trip, while carrying our other passports for the return journey. I presented my British passport at the airport for my departing flight, and provided British Airways with the details on my outbound booking. Once I arrived in the UK, I entered my Canadian passport info into my BA booking online and presented my Canadian passport at Heathrow for my return flight. When checking in online for BA for both flights, I was prompted to present my passport at the airport to a member of airline staff. It was a quick + easy verification. My hairdresser and his wife are dual Swiss and Canadian citizens and have been travelling using both passports for years when returning to Switzerland. They present their Swiss passports flying over and Canadian ones on the way back.

@joe32f Yes, whilst the age of majority is 18, there is plenty that escapes this, which is the case in all jurisdictions as far as I know.

The age of criminal responsibility here is very low, at age 10 (most of Europe is 14+). Children can vote in Scotland and Wales, join the armed forces, apply for a passport, attend full time work, ride a moped or tractor up to 50cc, have sex, and plenty other things.

As you've picked up on in the article, 16 year olds are also deemed to have the capacity to determine how their data is processed under GDPR rules. That is fairly new law, however being able to apply for a passport at 16 has been the case for the many decades I've been alive, and the combination of the two is probably what drove the civil servant in question to say he would not discuss it with the child's father.

@lizzy.tilley Thanks for your reply. This has been a bit of a confusing and stressful process and the fact that you got your passports so quickly is encouraging. From what I can gather the British passport office is handling 20,000 passport applications per day but they have 4,000 employees to process all of them. We have had to make a few phone calls to the UK passport office to get things cleared up but it was good to be able to talk with a live person to get some answers. We are hoping that we will have that passport in hand before too long. I think you were a British citizen automatically when you were born and not by descent assuming you were born before 1983, your father was still a British citizen and legally married to your mother at the time of your birth. This would be the case for my daughter and after 50+ years she is still trying to wrap her head around her “new” citizenship status. If you were British by descent you would have had to go through a naturalization process. Was that the case? Anyway I have learned a lot about British citizenship since we started this process.

Olivia, from what I gather being considered an adult is the UK is a progressive process which gradually changes as the person gets to what we here in the US consider to be an adult. It is very interesting. Going way back to the 1920’s when my in-laws were 14 years old, they had to go to work and support themselves. My father-in-law was an orphan at that time and my mother-in-law lacked parental support due to abandonment which was truly sad. Things have probably changed since then in the UK and children are more supported in cases like that.

"If you were British by descent you would have had to go through a naturalization process"

Actually, if you are a British citizen by descent, you do not need to go through a naturalisation process - you are already a citizen - this if for non citizens who become citizens (normally by living in the UK, for example).

You might be thinking of registration. If you were born outside the UK to a mother who was a British citizen other than by descent and a father who either was not a citizen, or was a citizen by descent, prior to 1983. you are entitled to citizenship, but you need to register to obtain it.

@Simon Thanks for the clarification on this. So my daughter is a British citizen by descent. My husband’s nephew is going through registration to obtain his British citizenship as the second scenario referenced applies to him.

I'm in the same category, but I have a Certificate of Entitlement to Right of Abode - simpler than applying to be a citizen by registration, and with the right to live and work in the UK, access the NHS etc.

Mary, not discounting all your husband's issues and I'm sure it's been a real trial, I would love to have his problem! Unfortunately, all my ancestors came over here either too early or at the wrong time, so I have no claim to any dual citizenship.

My daughter keeps telling me I should go to Europe and start looking for a husband. 😂

Mardee, LOL! Seriously this has been a trial and continues to be. We still have unanswered questions on this process and getting different answers from different agents. Right now I see on the passport tracking that he needs to do identity verification again but was previously told that was not going to be necessary as the original verification would remain. I am hoping in a few days that all documents and identity verification have been transferred to the new application and no further action is required on our part. If that hasn’t happened by next Monday or Tuesday, we will make another call to the UK. At least I can see that the original application fee is being refunded to our credit card account. So there’s that.