Best way to have a scenic route via train from Cardiff to York

Assuming you have plenty of time and with a rail pass, cost isn't an issue... My immediate thought would be the Heart of Wales line from Llanelli (train from Cardiff) to Shrewsbury. Change here and catch a train to Manchester Picadilly. Change here and pick up a train to Sheffield (OK I know this is the 'long' way round but it takes you through the heart of the Peak District. ) Change at sheffield for a train to York...

I'm sure isn31c can come up with times and may be an even better route!

That's a tough choice, and let's discount the fastest (3rd route)- the least scenic- Cardiff to Birmingham New Street, change, Birmingham New Street to York.

The western route (The Heart of Wales Line) only has 4 trains a day and is a 4 hour ride from Swansea to Shrewsbury. Pros- it is a very scenic route and is usually a lot quieter than the direct route via Newport, and you see so much of deeply rural Wales.
Con is that it is sometimes worked with a 1 car train, so does not have too much capacity anyway. Today 24 August being one instance of that. Pro or con depending on your point of view- All the units on that line are about 30 years old and have opening (yey!) windows. Pro- the seats all align with the windows (which you can't say for the newer trains on the other route).

The eastern route is a through train from Cardiff to Manchester Piccadilly, change there for York.

Differently but arguably equally scenic. Pro- the trains are brand new air conditioned trains. Pro- takes 2 hours Cardiff to Shrewsbury and runs hourly, thus 3 hours faster from Cardiff.
Con- those trains are 2 or 3 car, far too short for the traffic. Recently some services haven't even reached Manchester due to serious overcrowding- they have been being terminated short.

If doing that route I would suggest taking one of the loco hauled trains- the 0849, 1052, 1249, 1449 and 1649 from Cardiff. They are twice as long, more comfortable and in 1st class you have the best meal in 1st class on a scheduled train in the UK. If a loco hauled set fails it can be replaced with a normal train at short notice. So a scheduled 4 car train suddenly becomes 2 car. I saw that happen one day last week at Manchester. It was breathe in tight time!!

I would normally choose via Birmingham unless I could get a loco hauled set. If I had lots of time in hand then absolutely Heart of Wales.

PS- Reading Wasley's reply I just assumed Trans Pennine via Huddersfield onwards from Manchester. On a railpass you could go Sheffield but if you have come Heart of Wales you've already taken over 6 hours to Manchester. Via Sheffield adds another hour + over and above the via Huddersfield route. I suppose it depends how much you like train travel. If you do route Sheffield I would suggest an all stations Northern service, not an East Midlands express service bound for Norwich- more room.

Thanks to both of you! Great info. I am not familiar with the term loco hauled trains. Can you excuse my ignorance and let me know what that means?

Most trains in the UK are multiple units, where the engine is an integral part of the train. Apart from on subway lines they are rare in the US where almost all trains are loco hauled- meaning a separate engine on the front.

I don't know where you are from in the US but for multiple units think of the Stadler Flirt trains on TexRail in Texas, or the brand new Stadler Kiss trains on CalRail from San Jose to San Francisco. There are other US examples, but those are the obvious ones

In the Netherlands there are also Stadler Wink Trains!! Flirt, Kiss and Wink are all acronyms with a serious meaning, but deliberately chosen for their more humorous connotations.

I would not go via Swansea & the Heart of Wales route due to the length of journey and rubbish trains - even though the line goes through the rural middle of Wales.

I would go on the direct trains that go from Cardiff to Manchester via Ludlow & Shrewsbury. Then change for the final leg to York.

Note that two types of trains are used on the hourly Cardiff to Manchester route and they usually alternate. As has been explained by isn, one type is loco hauled and has 5 coaches including (usually) a chef & restaurant service for 1st class passengers - you can buy an upgrade on board if space available. The other type are brand new trains with underfloor engines (multiple units) and these have a ‘Standard Plus’ section for those who wish to pay £15 extra. As this new fleet build up in numbers, hopefully they will be up to 5 coaches by the time you make the trip. General consensus is that the loco hauled trains offer the better experience. A new faster timetable will come into force in December.

This line is relatively scenic going through the lush countryside of The Marches (border country between Wales & England). You may like to hop off at LUDLOW and take a look around. It does not look enticing when you leave the train and see a supermarket. (You could see if the supermarket will look after your baggage)? Walk to the street west of the supermarket & turn L and go up the hill (passing The Feathers Hotel) & turn left into the centre of this small town. Proceed walking L of the castle and down the hill to the river bridge for the view back to the castle. (You probably will already have seen the 4 castles in and around Cardiff = Cardiff, Caerphilly, Castell Coch & St.Fagans). Anyway, back to the station and proceed north on the next train (at least 1 an hour so know when they are coming).

SHREWSBURY is another place where you may like to consider hopping off and taking a look around.

Note that on the Cardiff to Shrewsbury leg, that if intending to ‘hop off’, that you could also use trains going to north Wales as well as those going to Manchester.

Also be aware that Cross Country Trains will be operating a direct (via Gloucester & Birmingham) Cardiff to York service by the time you make your trip. This will be operated by Voyager Trains & I think it will depart Cardiff at 9.45am with the final destination being Edinburgh. This will be the quickest way from Cardiff to York.

PS. I think that the most scenic rail route in Wales is the Cambrian Line going west from Shrewsbury and then up the coast. Porthmadog makes a good jumping off point/base for the narrow gauge railways through Snowdonia National Park (Eryri). This is out of the question unless you decided to include a stay in NW Wales in your trip.

Wow, thanks for all that info!

Oh, forgot to ask. How can you tell if the train is loco hauled or not? I'm testing out routes using the National Rail Inquires app - but I don't see any detail on the the trains themselves. Is there a better app?

On the Cardiff to Manchester route the clue is if it is a direct train and it has 1st class. No 1st class and it's scheduled as a multiple unit, first class and it's scheduled as loco hauled.

Usually 1st class is about £5 to £10 more than standard class on that route, it's not too unusual to find it cheaper.

And, to make your mouth water, this is the current restaurant car menu- https://tfw.wales/ways-to-travel/rail/food-and-drink/first-class-dining.

The trains I gave you last night as loco hauled are from the (nationwide, all operators) rosters which are here- http://www.railtourinfo.co.uk/locohauled.html

I did Chiltern a few weeks ago Birmingham to London loco hauled in the secret 1st class car and that was just fantastic. Chiltern no longer has 1st class, but the leading car southbound is the old 1st/business class, and is still seated as 2+1 and the better 1st class seats. I had booked ahead and got that for £4.50- the best bargain on the UK rail network.

A You Tuber has done a report on travelling 1st Class between Manchester & Hereford - with meal.

Also note that if buying tickets rather than using a rover, that it is often cheaper to split the ticket - especially at places where you change train company. Buying a Railcard will also help reduce the price (by about a third). If your Rover is day limited, you would not waste a day by using it for a short trip - such as Cardiff to Caerphilly - just pay the fare on the day.