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A question about UK train routes---National Rail vs. Bahn.de

Posted by (Seattle, WA) on

We have a number of train journeys in the UK, from London to Scotland, up to Oban, back to Glasgow, then to Shropshire, Wales, and Cornwall. For some I have already purchased tickets (at a nice discount for advance fares), and for some we will use a Railpass (because I could not find good Advance fares and/or could not commit to a specific train yet).

I like to print out the schedule with train changes and intermediate stops to carry along, so I understand the journey and can see where we are going. I could not find a good print view on the National Rail, East Coast, or Scot Rail sites, so went to bahn.de, which does offer a nice print view even for routes in the UK. The routes and schedules shown by bahn.de were identical to the ones shown on the UK train sites, except for Glasgow to Church Stretton.

For the 10 am departure from Glasgow, ScotRail shows a train to Crewe, and 11 minute transfer time to a train to Shrewsbury, and a transfer there to a train to Church Stretton. Bahn.de starts with the same train to Crewe, but has an extended wait tim of an hour and 11 minutes to catch a train at 14:08 which goes to Church Stretton (via Shrewsbury) with no changes. So it arrives an hour later than the one that ScotRail shows.

For the 10:40 am departure from Glasgow, ScotRail has us change at Preston, with a 21 -minute transfer time to a train to Crewe. At Crewe, there is the 11-minute wait time to change to a train that goes to Church Stretton with no further changes. This is the same 14:08 train recommended by bahn.de for the earlier route. However, for this route (10:40 departure from Glasgow), bahn.de says to stay on the train past Preston to Warrington Bank Quay, and change there (6 minutes transfer time) for a train to Chester. Then a transfer at Chester (26 minutes for that) to Church Stretton, avoiding Crewe altogether.

Does anyone have an explanation for the differences? It appears bahn.de does not trust an 11-minute transfer at Crewe, but they they put in a 6-minute transfer at Warrington Bank Quay in the latter route.

I am leaning toward the 10:40 departure using the ScotRail route. Would anyone advise differently? This is a route for which we will use a day on our train pass, so we can choose anything we want.

Posted by
5420 posts

They are probably using different algorithms on the data. I can get yet another different answer on West Coast's site for the 10:40 departure which is to change at Carlisle and Crewe.

The current recommended minimum connection time at Crewe is 10 minutes.

Posted by
33392 posts

Crewe can be a tricky station to change at. The platforms are long and the station is wide, and there are stub platforms and only a couple of places to cross the tracks, overbridges that are quite high up.

I'd give enough time to get your bearings, Lola, and make your way to the next train.

Posted by
5420 posts

Warrington BQ has 4 platforms (2 island pairs) but that still makes it much easier to negotiate than Crewe. it has even been done up a bit in recent years after decades of neglect - not that this would matter in a quick change.

Posted by
5420 posts

It often feels cold and windy there - probably as it is an elevated site.

Posted by
17169 posts

This is very helpful---thank you so much. I guess we should decide between the 10:40, using the bahn.de route (changes at Warrington Bank Quay and Chester) and the 10:00. If we happen to miss the 11-minute connection at Crewe with that one, we can take the next an hour later (as recommended by bahn.de). but then we would be hanging around Crewe for an hour. Are there any shops close by?

Posted by
33392 posts

Crewe is not in the shopping district nor really even at all close. There are a few shops on the station, scattered around the various platforms; you can get a sandwich or bacon roll and a cup of tea or coffee. When I was assigned to time at Crewe a few years ago the only thing I ever found outside of the station was a fair to poor chippie. Sorry.

See if the conductor on your inbound train can give you information on platform, how to make the walk, etc., I expect that they will know, and follow their advice and you should be OK, if perhaps a bit breathless....

good luck

Posted by
5420 posts

Crewe station is to the south of the commercial part of the town. There is a shopping development to the north of the station in the wedge created by the west coast main line railway and the line to Manchester, but it is a 'big box' type from what I have seen from the railway. Checking the map it looks that because of the nature of the site getting there from the station and back would take up much of the hour by walking as you have to walk right to the north end to get in.

Posted by
2522 posts

Hi Lola,

Basically, you are being offered different options for the same journey. You leave Glasgow on a Virgin express and must change at Crewe to switch to Arriva Trains Wales services that are going from Manchester to south Wales.

I would do this:- take the 10.00am Virgin departure from Glasgow and get off at Crewe (due 12.57). Now, it ain't much fun hanging around Crewe unless you are a train spotter, so, I would take the (Arriva Trains Wales) 13.08 (should be platform 7B) to Shrewsbury. I would then leave Shrewsbury station & have a wander around the town - as long as you can hump the cases. You could, of course, should you wish, catch the 13.58 from Shrewsbury to Church Stretton - which would mean staying on Shrewsbury station. However, you will find that trains run pretty regularly from Shrewsbury to Church Stretton - so that gives you plenty of flexibility in your wandering around Shrewsbury. http://www.visitshrewsbury.com

I find, by far the easiest website to get British train schedules to be www.nationalrail.co.uk
Check it out for the scheduled between SHR and Church Stretton and for your complete journey.

Scotrail have nothing to do with this journey. Had you come on to this site before you made your final arrangements, people would have come on with advice about where to go and how to save money on fares. (I would have suggested changing at Warrington & then heading for Chester & north Wales).

You say you are going to Cornwall. From Church Stretton, I would initially use the route that follows the Welsh border. I would also have made a detour to Cardiff for 2 nights.

Posted by
17169 posts

Thanks, AM. We will be using a Railpass for this particular journey, so we are not committed to a particular route. We could make our changes at Warrington and Chester (as suggested by Bahn.de for the 10:40 departure) if that is the most pleasant journey. Sounds like it is worth it to avoid Crewe.

I will check National Rail again. In retrospect I believe I was using that website, or maybe East Coast Trains since we are using them for London to Edinburgh. I was looking at Scotrail for our travel within Scotland.

From Church Stretton we go to Abergavenny for a few days of walking (Three Castles walk and a day on Offa's Dyke Path) before we head to Cornwall. Both National Rail and bahn.de show the route as Abergavenny---Newport---Bristol Temple Meade---Bodmin Parkway and it looks like a reasonable journey.

Posted by
2522 posts

If going via Chester - try & go into the 'city' (it is small). http://www.visitchester.com
Try and visit Ludlow - it is about 12 minutes further down the line from Church Stretton. www.ludlow.org.uk

I have climbed both the Sugar Loaf & Skirrid Mountains by Abergavenny. The ride by bus to Brecon is also pleasant. You can, should you wish - take the train to Cardiff from Abergavenny as it takes only about 40 minutes. (Do not use the bus to Cardiff - too long a route). It would certainly be a good alternative in the event that bad weather prevents you from hiking.
www.visitcardiff.com
http://www.cardiffcastle.com

Yes, the route to Cornwall is perfectly reasonable. Best views after Exeter will be on the left.

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