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18 days in October in mostly Britain - Bath, Cardiff, York, Wooler, London - seeking thoughts.

Hello! My first post here. Welcome your thoughts as to our general plan. We have largely though not entirely sorted out how much time to spend at each place, doing our utmost to avoid checking a bag. My partner and me will depart Toronto to spend 18 days in England and plan to travel by train, and bus when needed. I’ve spent some time looking into train and bus travel so am not completely unaware of how they work.

Our trip is evolving into a combination of visiting national and international treasures, and visiting sites related to our family histories. We are trying to not plan every day, all day, leaving some flexibility for unpleasant weather, our gumption and energy levels, etc.

Right now the only firm commitments are flight arrival and departure dates/times, a hotel in Bath is booked, and attending a play in Bath the evening of October 9. We arrive Heathrow at around 11:30AM on Tuesday Oct. 7th. Our thinking is to take the Heathrow Express to Paddington Station then train to Bath, arriving around 4:00PM (we hope!) when we finally give in to the inevitable need to sleep, and staying for three nights at the Z Hotel. We expect Wednesday to be a recovery-and-swinging-in-to-the-different-time-zone day.

Apart from the play we are considering a walking tour, seeing the Baths, the Abbey, possibly Stonehenge and/or Avebury (although we may do this later, from London).

After that we currently plan on going to Cardiff for two or three nights, leaving Bath around mid-day or early afternoon. One branch of my family hails from nearby; am looking into whether any traces of my family remain there and if so whether a day trip by train is worth the time. If not, then we could pass entirely on Cardiff.

It seems that using a one day of a BritRail pass to travel the 90 minutes from Bath to Cardiff is not cost effective. Thoughts?

We then plan on leaving Cardiff the morning of Monday the 13th and going to York, staying for three nights/two full days. Nothing specific planned or lodging selected yet; evensong at the Minster is highly recommended by a trusted advisor.

My partner has some family origins near Wooler in the far northeast, north of Newcastle-Upon-Tyne and off train routes. So probably take the train to Berwick-upon-Tweed which is nearest where we would want to go, then would need to take a bus to Wooler and stay for 2-3 nights.

We’d return to London on the 19th and would have four full days - 20th-23rd - to sightsee. High on the list: Churchill War Rooms (probably a must for me), Kew Gardens, The Tower, the British Museum, the Eye, the Imperial War Museum, and one or more markets. As mentioned earlier we may decide to take a tour of Stonehenge and Avebury from here - we understand that would be an all day trip and a costlier one than from Bath.

Look forward to your comments, welcome any recommendations for preferably lower-cost lodging in York, London probably near Paddington/Marylebone (and Wooler if anyone has been there) and engaging. Thanks in advance!

andrew

Posted by
10357 posts

Correct, you wouldn't waste a pass day on Bath to Cardiff.

Borders Buses run the #266, 267 and 464 from outside Berwick station to Wooler- https://www.bordersbuses.co.uk/

Note that if you stay in Wooler for 3 nights the town has no Sunday bus service

I'm not sure what, in $ you call lower cost, but the two Premier Inns on Blossom Street, York are just under £100 a night for your dates.
They are very handy for the station and the city centre.

Wooler website- https://glendalegatewaytrust.org/visit-wooler/

Posted by
35638 posts

about the family nearby Cardiff - do you mean somewhere in the Valleys? There are trains to many of the towns, and plenty of busses. Do you know where?

You may find that the tour to Stonehenge from Bath is less time on the coach. It is a long pull from London and they usually put something else to drive by to make it seem worth the time and money.

It may be worth padding a couple of weather days in your plans - you can run into a fair bit of the wet stuff in October, and the days will be well into drawing in into October...

Welcome aboard - it looks like you have a fair amount of work into the trip already....

Posted by
329 posts

There is another option you may want to look into to get to Bath from Heathrow: National Express. It's a direct coach (long distance bus) and this way you don't need to load/unload your luggage more than once.

There are a couple of companies that have day tours from Bath to Stonehenge, Avebury and the Cotswolds:
Rabbies: https://www.rabbies.com/en-us/tour/centuries-stories-stonehenge-and-cotswolds-day-tour-from-bath
MadMax: https://www.madmaxtours.co.uk/tours/tour-1-stonehenge-cotswold-villages-and-avebury-stone-circles

I have not taken either of these tours, but do plan on a Rabbies tour in Scotland next year. They are highly recommended on this forum, that's how I know of them.

In London, I like Vancouver Studios in the Bayswater area but it does not have a lift/elevator. You can write to them and ask if they have rooms available on lower floors, if that is important to you.
https://vancouverstudios.co.uk/

A popular budget chain on this forum is Premier Inn. You can see if there is anything available in a suitable location for you either in London or York. I will be trying them for the first time next month.

Have a lovely trip!

Posted by
2823 posts

When in Bath, you could take the train to Salisbury (about 1 hour and trains hourly) and then the Stonehenge shuttle bus to Stonehenge. On returning to Salisbury - see the medieval cathedral before returning to Bath - unless staying in Salisbury overnight before going to Bath.
https://www.thestonehengetour.info/bus-timetable/
https://www.visitwiltshire.co.uk/salisbury

Direct trains go to from Bath to Cardiff hourly and the journey takes just over 1 hour and the one way fare is around £27 (without a Railcard discount). I would not skip Cardiff as there is loads to see in and around the city - 4 very different castles for starters. The following link will tell you more:>https://www.planetware.com/tourist-attractions-/cardiff-w-sg-cardiff.htm

As Nigel said, you might get more advice if you say exactly where your ancestors lived in the Cardiff area. Premier Inn offers good value accommodation in Cardiff - unless an event is taking place in the stadium.

Note that a direct train leaves Cardiff for York (ultimate destination Edinburgh) at 9.45 on weekdays only and the journey takes 4 hours 45 minutes. By booking ahead (around 10 weeks) you should be able to get advance tickets for this train for around £54 (that’s without a Railcard discount). Compare that with the Britrail daily rate. It's no big deal if you don't use the direct train but the journey will involve one change of train en route.

Posted by
10357 posts

There is an hourly local bus from Bath to Avebury and a two hourly local bus from Bath to Stonehenge, so you don't have to train to Salisbury then the "tour bus" to Stonehenge- a cheaper method, not in the RS books.
You could even do both Avebury and Stonehenge in the day by local bus.

Another way to do Avebury is from London, but by train to Swindon, then a half hours ride on the same local hourly bus. It is entirely possible to do both sites by that method as well.

As regards Wooler I've only done there by day trips by transit from the Lake District, so can't help on accommodation. However I was looking on booking.com last night, and there are several good looking options in the £70 to £80 a night bracket for your dates. Try to book direct if you can, you often get cheaper rates.
I've booked somewhere (not Wooler) for a few weeks time and got about 30% off for going direct.
It worries me a bit when you say 'near' Wooler but at the end of the day I've done every village in Northumberland with a Church by transit (on a tour of the Churches of the Diocese of Newcastle), so it can be done but there are also taxis in the town. Often it was harder finding church opening times then finding the transit.

EDIT- By the way there is also a direct bus #418, which runs direct from Wooler to the more touristy part of Northumberland at Bamburgh and Seahouses. The Borders buses website doesn't make it clear that this is the route. The bus continues on to Alnwick. Arriva also run a once per day service, the X16 to Newcastle- morning to Newcastle, early evening back, twice a day on a Saturday when it extends to Coldstream and Kelso.

Posted by
9212 posts

Do not miss Caerphilly Castle, a few miles north of Cardiff. Still, visit Cardiff Castle/
For York, don't miss the National Rail Museum, walk the ancient walls, spend some time in the York Minster and visit some of the great museums in York.

Posted by
4 posts

Thank you everyone for taking the time to comment, it is much appreciated! I am taking the liberty of replying to everyone in this one post. Much is still in flux, so will almost certainly have more questions.

As a bit of an aside, we are flying on British Airways. The price was right and the outbound flight is currently on a B777, which allowed us to choose a pair of seats near (though not adjacent to) the galley and washrooms in the rear of the cabin. We chose adjacent aisle seats for the return.
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@isn31c, thanks for confirming my suspicion regarding the Bath-Cardiff train.

It looks like we may want to adjust our schedule to take into account Woolers' absence of Sunday bus service.

I’ll investigate the Premier Inns, thank you!

Also, thanks for sharing the Bath-Avebury bus information. We may lean slightly to Avebury over Stonehenge. And great info about buses in the northeast.

My partner has been in touch with people in Wooler who should be able to provide insight into getting around. Apparently they live in the town, and at least one seems to live there year round.
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@Nigel, my great-grandfather was born in Aberdare, a short train trip from Cardiff. A return trip could be done in a day although I’m unsure that would be worthwhile, so perhaps should investigate overnight lodging. And thank you for commenting about the weather; we definitely want to keep that in mind. Perhaps do laundry, not stray far from the hotel.
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@MapLady, we had not considered an express coach to Bath. Thanks, we will look into it! The absence of a lift in a hotel isn’t much of a concern, though we would probably prefer a lower-floor room. And thanks for seconding the recommendation of Premier Inns.

We are very much looking forward to our holiday!
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Hello @James,

We hadn’t considered the train to Salisbury; that may work better for our timing than an all-day bus tour. Most to almost all of our trip is self-planned and -scheduled so this option has some appeal. As I mentioned to Nigel, my great grandfather was born in Aberdare and I am still researching whether other ancestors lived nearby. Good to learn about the direct Cardiff - York train! That should work with our schedule.
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@geovagriffith, we expect to visit Caerphilly Castle. My great-grandfather likely departed from Cardiff for the US, so perhaps a visit to the harbour.

Posted by
10357 posts

Given that your ancestors were probably miners you may find a visit to The Big Pit National Coal Museum worthwhile, when in South Wales.
You stand a good chance of finding the ships manifests so finding out not only where they sailed from, but also the name of the ship, and the exact address they intended to go to, not always the same as where they actually went to!!
Quite often, at least in BC and Washington State you can find better quality family information in records over there, than in UK records.
That's the two areas I'm used to working with.

Posted by
35638 posts

you may have already noted this - Aberdare has a station with train service twice an hour from Cardiff; and there's a Premier Inn too.

Posted by
2823 posts

If you were going from Heathrow to Salisbury on your arrival day - suggestion take a bus to Woking and then train to Salisbury.

It is quite easy to take one of the frequent electric trains from Cardiff to Aberdare and back in a day. You will be going through the former coal mining valleys and Cardiff was once the greatest coal exporting port in the world. It’s a very different world now and the waterfront at Cardiff Bay is lined with restaurants, a 5* hotel and the nearby Wales Millennium Centre (a modern Opera House/ concert hall).

If you go on Google Maps and find Aberdare - click and drag a short distance NW and you should see ‘Scwd-yr-Eira’ and other waterfalls marked. This is a beautiful area of gorges with many waterfalls but is difficult to reach without a car. The Brecon Beacons National Park (now given a Welsh name) lies north of Aberdare and the difference between the mining area and the National Park is quite stark.

Mention has been made of Big Pit - which is a real (disused) coal mine that you can go down at Bleanavon in the NE part of the former mining area. It is rather awkward to reach by public transport from Cardiff. Being as you may be going to see Aberdare, I would suggest you go Cardiff > Aberdare; Aberdare > Pontypridd (change train for one bound for Treherbert) > Trehafod and then walk the short distance the the Welsh Coal Mining Experience - which is on the site of a real former mine but you don’t actually go underground. To do that, it is probably best to get this rover ticket - which would also get you back to Cardiff and maybe down to Cardiff Bay station late in the day.

I would also suggest that you visit St.Fagans Castle & Museum of Welsh History - about 7 miles west of Cardiff. Use Cardiff Bus 32 or First Bus 320 (which is every other hour) and no buses on Sundays. Also note that the last 32 leaves at 3pm so if visiting -best to be on the earliest bus out. (The site is very large and needs at least half a day).

If you take the train to see the medieval Caerphilly Castle - be sure to keep the tickets and show them at the entrance for 2 for 1 admission.

You mentioned a Britrail Pass. Now, this may work out cheaper for you but also consider whether a Railcard for £35 would be better value as it gives a third off most fares - but note that some Railcards ahem not before 9.30 restriction on weekdays. The longer distance trips = such as York to London (Kings Cross) will be cheaper if you pre book Advance Specific Train tickets (non refundable).
https://www.railcard.co.uk

Glamorgan is former County name for much of SE Wales. For ancestry research see:> https://glamarchives.gov.uk

About 5 miles NW of Aberdare, an old colliery has been turned into an adventure centre that includes a zip line off a mountain.
https://www.zipworld.co.uk/locations/tower-colliery

You might wish to check out these You Tubers who have done a view on Cardiff.

Posted by
10357 posts

The other coach (bus) you can take from Heathrow to Salisbury (and a much cheaper one) is the 730 express from Terminal 5 to Basingstoke station, hourly, then the same half hourly train as from Woking. The overall journey time is almost identical.
Fare Heathrow to Basingstoke £6.

It's a fairly new service so probably isn't in the RS guidebooks.

Basingstoke also has Jane Austen connections.

Posted by
10202 posts

I would third the rec for Premier Inns. They are located all over the UK, are consistently clean and comfortable, and usually a bargain. They have breakfast available for an extra cost (you usually can choose between a full cooked breakfast, buffet style, or continental for a lower cost). There are two locations near Paddington Station; the Paddington Basin PI and the Paddington Station PI, which was just built last year.

With regards to Wooler; that will be more difficult as the nearest PIs (in Berwick-upon-Tweed and Alnwick) would be an hour or more by bus. I spent about a week in the Northumberland area last year, but I'm not familiar with the town although I did pass through it while heading to Seahouses. There are a number of small B&Bs, inns and a hostel in Wooler, though, which all look interesting, so you might want to check them out. Here is a Google Maps link that will lead you to a number of them—just zoom in to see more.

It sounds like a wonderful trip! I spent almost 6 weeks there last year and loved every minute of it, and I'm sure you will, too!

Posted by
4981 posts

I have been to both Caerphilly Castle and St. Fagan's and since you will already see a castle(The Tower) St. Fagan's should be a much higher priority for you than Caerphilly. I have not been to Stonehenge but saw Avebury on a Mad Max tour from Bath and prefer it because at Avebury you can actually get close to the stones. I have read that that is not the case at Stonehenge.

Posted by
10357 posts

Alnwick would not suit you given the lack of useful bus service to Wooler.

It would take over 2 hours each way, either via the coast or via Berwick.

The services were concentrated on Berwick as that is the better used flow. I was often the only passenger from Alnwick when services ran.

And Berwick PI is no bargain for your dates at well over £90 a night. Staying in Wooler is cheaper.
By the way a day bus ticket for Northumberland is only £6 for use on all operators.

Posted by
4 posts

@isn31c, I learned through Ancestry that yes my Welsh ancestors were miners. After he arrived in the US my great-grandfather spent a few years farming, then returned to the coal mining industry (in Texas of all places). After more research we are pondering spending more than one night in Aberdare. I would love to learn what ship he sailed on, from where, and where he landed. Unsure how to pursue that, it will be a learning experience!

@Nigel, we did see that Aberdare has frequent train service from Cardiff with some being direct. That may - or may not - make feasible having Aberdare as our base for one or two nights, taking into account the rover pass mentioned by @James. Do need to think more about that though.

@James, we expect to continue on to Bath and base there. Not ruling out Salisbury though . . . Cardiff and southeast Wales seems to be turning into more than a ‘take a quick look at a castle and perhaps an ancestral town’! And that’s very good! We appreciate your tip on the rover pass, which looks like a good option for us to consider.

@Mardee, thanks for the rec for PI. It may be that, after a bit more research, the chain becomes our go to.

We will take a few days to review what all of you have shared then return

Thank you again everyone!

Posted by
10357 posts

In theory the ship manifest should come up on Ancestry. I'm not at all familiar with Texan records to know how much background information is on them, but my own tree in Texas goes stone cold.
I take a mighty unexplained leap from upper NY state via New Jersey to Texas.
It's only through a New Orleans census I know of a Texan link and an address, thin pickings.
However I would guess your ancestor came in through Ellis Island, so it may be worth checking their records on line.
What happened with the Cumberland (UK) miners was that a recruiter came over from the NWI company, and paid the passage of the initial tranche on the CP ships from Liverpool to Montreal then train to Vancouver BC for the PNW, with a nominal first port of entry into the US of Sarnia. Sarnia records are excellent.
Some abandoned the train in the middle of BC, and some at Vancouver -where they took a boat to Victoria and thence to Cumberland BC.
Some found other employment in Vancouver or Seattle!! It's hard to know what percentage actually got to Upper Kittitas. I suspect a distinct minority.

The first arrivals then wrote home to friends and family of how good life was, and a further wave followed going to join friends, or the wife and children followed when the menfolk were settled.

I suspect recruiters from some other (Texan?) Coal company did a similar thing in South Wales- may be Glamorgan archives will know more about the process.

Posted by
2823 posts

So, it now appears that you are definitely going to include the Cardiff area on your trip.

In an earlier post I mentioned the Valley Lines Rover Ticket. I did this because I mentioned going to Trehafod in order to visit the nearby Mining Experience. There is a cheaper way of doing this and it is by using tap in tap out with your contactless bank card as this has a daily cap of £9.60. Below you will see a link about this along with a map of the rail system in SE Wales where this applies. You will see the scanners at train stations for this and you simply swipe your card at the start of a journey and swipe out at the end. The scanner beeps to show it has worked. They will then debit the money from your bank. If the guard asked to see your ticket - you show the bank card and they have a way of knowing if you swiped in or not. (Not all journeys are cheaper with this system - especially for those with a Railcard as the contactless system does not give the third off discount).

On the map on the link, you need a train on the red route to reach Aberdare and these usually depart Cardiff Central on platform 7. Unfortunately, on the map on the following link the place names are written in Welsh first (bold) and English second. This is because the train company comes under the ultimate responsibility of the Welsh Government who are pushing for everyone to learn Welsh - which is a bone of contention amongst many in the majority (82%) of the population of Wales who do not speak Welsh. Welsh speakers tend to vote for a nationalist party called Plaid Cymru who would like to split Wales off from the UK to be an independent state. The views on all this vary widely - it depends who you speak to. Indeed, the accents change across Wales. The people in Aberdare mainly speak only English but have a valleys accent.

When the industrial revolution happened, people flooded into south Wales from many areas in search of work. It could be that your great father came from a Welsh speaking community in rural west Wales; on the other hand, he could well have moved to Aberdare from England. If you go to Cardiff Bay, although everything has changed, you can still see some original stones on the quays from which he might have taken his last step on Welsh ground before heading for the new world having said goodbye to everyone at home.

Official Welsh Government tourism site > https://www.visitwales.com/

For Wooler area see:> https://www.visitnorthumberland.com

Posted by
2335 posts

I always recommend the Mad Max tours that leave from Bath to anyone wanting to really view the area. I took one in 2022 that visited both Stonehenge & Avebury plus some Cotswold villages. It was a small van plus a driver/guide. It was a wonderful day and I felt I saw so much. I also recommend everyone's recommendation of the Premier Inns. I stayed at one in Bath and also in London. Good value.

Posted by
4 posts

American here. I am planning my second trip to London for October. The last time my favorite things were the Cotswolds and the Churchill War Room. We spent over 3 hours in the CWR and I want to go back on this trip!

A suggestion for planning how you get around - the website Rome2Rio. Extremely helpful.

This trip, we are going a little farther afield and will be seeing Cardiff, Bath, and Oxford. Can't wait!

Posted by
4 posts

Hello everyone!

Still reviewing and evaluating all the interesting, useful, informative links. Wanted to post about where we are as of this afternoon.

Our routing will be Heathrow > Bath > Cardiff/Aberdare > York > Wooler > London > home. Our visit to Wooler is firming up; we were tipped to The Old Mill B&B; have booked space there and will report on it after the trip. After considering Woolers’ absence of Sunday bus service we will stay until Monday morning then head to London. A downside of this is having only three full days in London; an upside is three full days in Wooler which may be a welcome if not needed interval of calm between the hurly-burly of Bath/Cardiff/York and that of London.

I’ve spent some time reviewing the thread about applying for ETAs and am ready to tackle that this week.

A bit about my ancestors - the trail may go cold after my great-grandfathers’ parents, who were born in the 1820s. Evidence seems to point to their being Welsh. There may be one link another generation back which I haven’t yet explored.

@Laurie Beth, do you recall which Premier Inn in London you stayed at?

@Jen7Harper, the Churchill War Rooms is about as close to a must-do (for me, my partner may feel a bit differently - :-) ) as there is without being a must-do.

Posted by
10357 posts

The trail may well go cold because Civil Registration began in 1837. Before then you need Civil parish records.
If you can find a birth town from the 1851, 1861 and later censuses before emigration you probably need to use the Family Search website (the Mormons) which has earlier Civil records.
The physical registers will be at the relevant County Archive Centre. The problem is that if it is a typical Welsh name there could be too many potential candidates.
What you ideally want is gravestone transcriptions, and what sometimes happens is an added inscription on the lines of "and our son, Charles, died in Yakima Hospital, Washington on 12 February 1912." I once found one like that in a remote Scottish Churchyard ( names changed), and turned up dozens of pages of the admon of his estate in WA, which gave huge amounts of invaluable family information you wouldn't have found anywhere else.
I sent that on to the local studies librarian at Yakima for their records.

Posted by
2335 posts

Yes, it was the one near Victoria Station. It was fine, except one of their elevators was out during my stay and the other one didn't go to my exact floor, so I had to drag my bag up a flight. In the future I will know to ask 'the elevator question' before I leave the desk if I think they may be two buildings put together to be a hotel which sometimes happens in big cities. In Bath and Edinburgh this wasn't a problem, but they were newer buildings.

Posted by
2335 posts

To research relatives in Wales, I've been told a good resource is the University of Aberystwyth. I believe they are the archive for Wales.