12 day Itinerary Advice England/Wales

Re: "arriving by ferry from Normandy." Be aware that ferries are sometimes canceled on just a few hours' notice, due to weather or to work stoppages. Will you have a hire car in France? If so, that's good because it will give you flexibility to drive to a different ferry port if a certain crossing is canceled.

We had to do this! We were booked on an overnight ferry from Caen (Ouistreham) to Portsmouth. I called about 12 hours before departure and confirmed. About an hour later my phone pinged, and it was a text message saying the sailing was canceled. In disbelief, I called and was told they could put us on an afternoon sailing from Cherbourg. We didn't even know where in England it would land (turned out to be Poole), but getting to England was the goal.

We had to drop our plans for the day and race to Cherbourg; just barely made it. The saving grace is that you can leave your rental car in the parking lot at the ferry. There's a bank of hotline telephones inside the terminal where you can call your rental company and tell them where the car is, and a secure deposit slot where you can leave the keys.

They gave no reason, but we found out later it was a French dock workers' round robin strike. Hope this won't happen to you, but be prepared.

Where does the ferry dock as we need that information to plan the itinerary.

Preliminary thoughts... York, Knarsborough and Harrogate form one base with Llandudno and Conwy the other. Oxford can be linked in with London - either as a stop on the way to or from their, or else as a day trip from London. Depending on where you are stopping in London, you won't want a car there (expensive, problems with parking etxc and it is much easier to get around bu public transport. It would make sense to drop off the car and then travel to London by train. The same could apply to York as you don't need a car to explore the city centre but may need it for any trips outside. If you do plan to stop in York with a car make sure the accommodation has parking. Not all places do.

The ferries from Normandy go either to Portsmouth or to Poole (the Dieppe-Newhaven option seems unlikely here). It does not make a huge difference, both are relatively close to Oxford by rental car, which would make a good first stop. Followed by North Wales, and Yorkshire.
I would then return the car in York (unneeded there), and take the train to London.

I take it you plan to be a foot passenger (ok, "we", passengers) on the ferry....

Just to say that October weather in the Channel can be relatively smooth (too late in the year for smooth) or you can get caught in one of the railroad train of storms which come over from Canada and the US, one after another. In such cases ferries are often cancelled, starting with the fast-ferries and eventually getting the slow ones, but the slow ones will try to go in all but the worst storms. It does make for a lumpy crossing, and it is considerably further than Dover/Calais - even they are 90 minutes if all is smooth, and I don't believe that pariah that is P&O have restarted foot passengers (they only just re-started non-freight vehicles since the safety and unskilled worker crisis they caused).

Interesting selection of northern towns - is there a pattern there that I don't see? Family heritage?

We like to stay in B&Bs or small hotels. We have rented a car in Britain twice and managed well, considering we had to drive on the left.

British drivers are generally polite. You won't need a car in London, so ditch it prior to visiting there.

You have listed places in north Wales, Yorkshire and the Midlands as well as near London. There is a bit of driving involved, but manageable. We found traffic in England to be terrible when near London. Also, the south of England has heavier traffic than the north. Oxford would be best visited on a day trip to London, parking a rental car there would be more problematic.

You could rent a car from Oxford, then take it north to the Midlands, n. Wales and then York.
We love Wales, both the north and south. York is great and deserves 3 nights. You didn't mention the Cotswolds, we loved it and stayed in Chipping Campden (Volunteer Inn-it has a great pub) and used it as a base to visit Stratford Upon Avon, Blenheim Palace, Oxford and the Cotswolds.

We did a four week drive tour of S. Wales and England in 2017 and it was great. Here is my review with details.
https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=599139

Nigel - I thought the northern selection of towns was a tad puzzling too - they are, of course, relatively close together, so I too thought perhaps a historical or family connection. Harrogate and Knaresborough together with York and Leeds loosely form ‘The Yorkshire Golden Triangle’, a term coined by estate agents to describe the area of well heeled villages and expensive ‘des. residences’, that are much sought after by the well-to-do, but I think we can discount that.

As we also can discount the ever shrinking ‘Yorkshire Rhubarb Triangle’ which is rather further south!

Ian

Thank you all so much for your advice. So much to digest that will help us immensely.
The reason for the choice of towns is purely because they are places we've read about or seen on TV that look fascinating. We've visited the South West of England twice and love it...but we thought we should spread our wings. So, if you have any advice in this regard, we're totally open and appreciative of your help.
Thanks again.

Sorry...to add to that...we chose those towns because they are basically in two groups so we thought we could base ourselves at each spot for a few nights. Maybe staying at Harrogate & Conwy. Is this feasible? Any nice English pubs/inns you know of to stay at?
It's a rainy weekend in Christchurch, New Zealand...lovely time to research our holiday...thank you all. Hope everyone's having a great weekend in the northern reaches 😊

Btw...I think we've already figured out we'd be best to go to London first, before we hire our car.

Hi -

If you are hiring a car for York, make sure your hotel/lodging has car parking. Parking in York is a nightmare - public car parks are eye wateringly expensive and on street parking is neglible at best. Driving in York is not fun either - sadly, mediaeval types never factored in the rise of the internal combustion engine! That being said, York is eminently walkable and has plenty to occupy the visitor for several days. The Minster of course takes top billing, but there are interesting buildings and ruins throughout the city and several interesting Museums - we visited the excellent Railway Museum just last weekend and were fascinated!

Harrogate and Knaresborough are close together and only a shortish drive from York. Think of Harrogate as a little like a northern Bath, it is after all a former spa town, although those don’t date back to Roman times. Knaresborough has a castle and the River Nidd between castle and town. There’s also the legend of Mother Shipton and her prophesies (although it turns out the majority were written long after her passing).

Also in the area is Ripon, which is a small city with a cathedral, much bigger than the city ought to have, which is celebrating the 1350th anniversary of its founding this year. Nearby is the UNESCO World Heritage site of Fountains Abbey and the Studley Royal water gardens, which can occupy a full day if you can stroll the extensive grounds. (National Trust and unusually, English Heritage too).

If you are a fan of the recent remake of ‘All Creatures Great and Small’ then many of its shooting locations are in the Yorkshire Dales, which are fairly close at hand if you have a car. You can always DM me for further details of these if you want, but my guess is you’ll have your hands more than full with your three chosen towns in the time you have available.

Hope you have a great trip!

Ian

Head to London first, where you won't want a car. Then catch the train to either York or Harrogate (depending on which you decide on for the stay) and hire a car once there. They are less than 25 miles apart.

Harrogate gives good access to the Yorkshire Dales. York gives access to the North York Moors with their ruined abbeys (Rievaulx, Byland, Kirkham, Mount Grace, as well as ruined castles in York itself, Pickering, Helmsley, Scarborough. You also have the North York Moors steam railway from Pickering to Whitby. Even if you don't use the railway, Whitby is well worth a visit with its Dracula connections, ruined abbey, the delightful St Mary's Church, harbour etc. Go to Scarborough for the seaside experience....

For the drive from either York or Harrogate to Conwy/Llandudno - don't take the motorway route which is always busy, especially around Manchester, but head further north up through Skipton, Clitheroe (both nice towns) and Preston.

Either Conwy (walled town with a ruined castle) or Llandudno (Victoria seaside town with a tramway up the Great Orme, with the Bronze Age copper mines) would be a good base to explore. The Bridge Inn in Conwy is a possible.

https://bridgeinnconwy.co.uk/

I was also going to mention the rhubarb triangle,didn't want to leave them in the dark about it.

Saw a story online this week that some American wanted to know what the deal with the pink celery in the UK was

Richard - 😂🤣😂

Cherry flavored 🤣

Thanks so much Ian & Julie, Richard & the Wesley's. Some great advice. Definitely getting the plan sewn up.

We took the train from London to Conwy for a long weekend, then booked a guided tour of the area (John from info boutique tours) The local pubs were fine enough enough, but it was the tour that really was fantastic. Having him explain what we were seeing inside the castle, and then in the surrounding countryside was worth the money. However I wouldn’t pick Conwy to visit again. What was it that you really wanted to see in that part of the UK?

Rather a highlight for me was touring the Roman ruins of Hadrian’s Wall and the surrounding fortress ruins. (http://www.hadrianswall-walk.com/ Run by Peter)

We also stayed in a holiday cottage near Marlborough. We used that as a base to visit Stonehenge, The Cotswolds, and Avebury. Traffic is absolutely terrible in The Cotswolds and I found it to be very touristy. Marlborough instead was a real gem in that it felt 100% authentic. I did enjoy visiting Hidcote and the Falconry in The Cotswolds, so still definitely go.

London is fantastic and taking a day trip to Bath is very easy. Oxford was just ok and I like Hampton Court Palace over Blenheim Palace. However it really depends on what you enjoy seeing and touring. I love the Tudor era, and you can always tour the War Rooms of Winston Churchill instead of visiting his childhood home.

While I agreed that Hadrian's Wall with the associated Roman remains is amazing, I feel benowitzea is a bit dismissive of Conwy. I've had many holidasys to North Wales over more years than I will own up to and Conwy is definitely up there at the top. The castle is one of the best Edwardian Castles (moated Beaumaris runs it a close second). The remains of the interior buildings really give a feel as to what it might have been like to live in a castle. There are also the town walls and you can walk along part of them - don't miss the bank of latrines (toilets) on the outside of one wall. There are the bridges over the river and also an Elizabethan Town House.

Llandudno with its Victorian Tramway and Bronze Age Copper Mines on the Great Orme is also an attractive seaside town. don't miss the punch and Judy show on the beach!

Penryn Castle is an OTT mock Norman castle is just a short drive and well worth a visit.

You havbe also got Snowdon and the Isle of Anglesey to explaire - both very differfent scenically but attractive in their different ways.

I like your itinerary - it is different to what the 'average' tourist does. Everyone has different priorities for a holiday and you seem very clear what yours are. Don't be sidetracked by negative comments - it has the makings of a really great holiday.