tipping tour guides and bus drivers

Some tour companies expect you to tip at the rate you’ve been quoted. Other tour companies pay their employees better wages so that the tour members aren’t expected, or in the case of Rick Steves tours, are told to not tip their guides and bus driver.

When I am traveling independently in Italy & take a half-day tour or cooking class, I do tip €5-10 if the guide or instructor has been a good one. But, per the Italian culture, I don’t tip at meals.

One reason I like Rick's tours so much (my 10th in the spring) is their tipping policy. I remember the first river cruise I took in Europe and how shocked I was when they told me the exorbitant amount I was expected to tip. Rick's advice on tipping at sites, etc. is simply a suggestion. However, he is trying to teach you how tipping in that country works or doesn't work. Unfortunately the tipping culture of the US, just like McDonalds has been exported to the world. I still try to tip per the culture of the country I am in though.

Per CIE's website: “With the CIE Tours Inclusive Advantage, everything on your itinerary is included in one up-front price, including sightseeing and many meals." Plus, “Get more without spending more! Other tour operators charge extra for some aspects of the tour – but with CIE Tours, there are no optional extras. Everything you’ll need is included in the price. No optional extras means more money in your pocket.” Tipping is, however, explicitly enumerated separately.

Just another reason why I've enjoyed many of Rick's tours.

Not sure that the tour company is trying to “bambozzle” you if they state up front what is expected. Just because RS tours include all the tips and gratuities doesn’t mean its the industry standard for tours in Europe, it just means he’s capitalized on including them in the price of the tour. They are there, you just aren’t seeing them.

Most tour companies suggest tipping your tour director at the end of the tour. They are not trying to bamboozle you. It is pretty common on most tours.

RS says there is no tipping to your guide. This is true. He's including the amount that would be tipped in your tour price.

Tour directors/guides make a living leading tours. Tipping is a large part of that. Companies that say tipping is not included pay their tour directors/guide a higher base pay. The extra cost is passed on to the passenger in the tour price.

When Rick says one to two euros he's talking about waiters, local guides, cab drivers, etc. Not someone who is with you all day and night on a tour.

Get a new tour company.

One of the great things about Rick Steves tours is that he pays his guides and drivers a good wage and does not expect the tour members to tip. I have heard him speak about this, saying that he believes these people are professionals and should be treated as such. I believe that he is rewarded for this policy with some of the best tour guides in the business remaining loyal to him and working for him for many years. I have had a couple who have led RS tours for 20 years.

Most other tour companies pay their guides much less and expect the tour members to make up for this by tipping. (This has been confirmed by a couple of RS guides who sometimes work for other companies.) Hence the “suggested” amounts. I have traveled with other companies (OAT, Gate 1) and really dislike having to tip, but would never penalize the tour guides by tipping less than the suggested amount. They depend on the tips to make a proper wage. My complaint is with these companies, not the guides. It’s important to understand the company’s tipping policy when signing up for a trip. Many advertise low prices, but then you must factor in the tips you will have to pay for the true cost of the tour. On my last Gate 1 tour, I spent about $200 in tips (just me) and I spent even more on my last OAT trip because it was longer.

When the guidebooks talk about tipping not being required in Italy (and elsewhere), they are talking about people like waiters, taxi drivers, and so on, because these people make a decent wage in Europe. This does not hold true for tour guides and drivers. This industry is tip-dependent all over the world. Rick Steves is an exception to this.

By the way, so-called “free” walking tours all over Europe expect that tips will pay their guides (who are often quite good).

I chatted with our guide near the end of our first RS tour, and told her how the guide on a prior Trafalgar tour steered us to places where he would get a commission, groveled for tips, etc. and how I appreciated her not doing that. To my surprise, she responded that I shouldn't be so hard on the Trafalgar guide, because he gets paid nearly nothing, does not have the same level of support from the company as she gets from RS, etc. It made me realize why RS guides all seem to be pleased to be part of the organization.

As noted by several posters, CIE is noted to be mostly all inclusive (for a mid range tour company), although having large groups compared to more upscale tours. However the expected tips for their guides and drivers are explicitly listed as a supplemental cost. This is the norm by many, if not most mid range tour companies. And it becomes a significant part of the guide and driver's income. If you dont want to pay those tips, then choose a different company, who will have rolled the amount of those tips into the cost of the tour..

This is completely different than a guide or driver or day tour for a few hours of one day. You are comparing apples to oranges.

This is normal for the majority of tour companies in Europe. I'm glad you posted because we're leaving for a tour in the Alps, and your post reminds me to set aside cash. Our company is a membership organization, a nonprofit in France. We'll be tipping our driver for 8 days and the local guides. The tour representative, a volunteer, is part of the organization that we all belong to, so he or she doesn't get tipped, but that person will collect the tips. Rick Steves tours are an exception.

I've compared RS tours and itineraries with European companies doing the same itineraries, thinking maybe I'll take a RS. Every time, RS is more expensive, has fewer hours of guided visits, and fewer meals included than the European tour companies we use. So comparing a tips included RS, you're already paying a lot.

Road Scholar is another company who says tips are included in the price.

On my cab ride in from the airport on the RS Best of Paris tour I handed the driver the fixed fee for that.

He was pissed.

Why was he angry? Because you paid the official rate? That was not part of your tour, was it?

Assuming that the guide and bus driver provide excellent service then, IMO, tipping 154 euros for an 8 day tour is more than reasonable. Is tipping "required"? Perhaps not. Is it the polite and classy thing to do for admirable service? Absolutely. One or two euros per day for a tour??? Cheapskate.

First, the OP’s story. What the tour company has done is at least disrespectful. If they could show to me where this is printed fairly prominently in the purchase contract, maybe I cut them a bit of slack, but it sounds like classic bait and switch. They wouldn’t get a cent in tips from me. The people working for them should know better than to work for a company with such business practices so I don’t fee bad that they don’t get tipped. With 30 people on your tour that guide is getting $210 a day. Seriously? Is the tour company paying anything?

Unfortunately the tipping culture of the US, just like McDonalds, has been exported to the world. I still try to tip per the culture of the country I am in though.

No, there was tipping in places in Europe before the Americans had any impact. In Hungary as I ran across an 1890's letter from a British gentleman working in Budapest. His son wanted to visit and the letter describing Budapest one of the complaints was that Hungarians expected tips.

When was the last time you saw an American walking into a European McDonalds? They don’t. The locals keep them in business because the locals like them and they want them. I’m not going to tell them that they are stupid to like McDonalds. And I am not going to suggest that they would be better off if what they enjoy was removed. They aren’t children.

I am opposed to “free” walking tours. They smell of “from those with ability to those with need” sort of commie stuff. If you can’t afford a real tour, and if you can’t afford a real tour that’s being done right, then you shouldn’t do it.

If you decide not to tip the tour director because you don't like the practices of the tour company, you are not hurting the tour company. They already have your money. You are hurting the person who has just spent the last week or two or more with you who has worked hard to see you have a good time. He has taken care of your checking in and checking out of hotels, taken care of getting into sights quickly and easily, he has taken care of any problems that may have arisen--some of which you may never know about. He has purchased the tickets you need for included sights and paid for those included restaurant meals. He has often acted as a guide telling you what you are seeing and answering your quesitons. He is there in case of an emergency.

But don't tip him because you are angry that the tour company didn't splash this information in huge letters.

Most tour companies operate this way. If that's not how you want to travel, then find a tour company that includes everything.

But don't punish the person who is doing his best to make sure you have a good time.

There are more tour directors than there are jobs. Most companies hire them not as employees but as freelancers. You don't like the idea of them making $200/day? This is a seasonal business. Tours don't operate year long and most tour directors either have some down time during the winter months or do the best they can to find work. No one is becoming rich being a tour director.

Most tour companies, if you go through the literature, will mention tipping. It is not bait and switch. (Bait and switch is when one product is advertised and another more expensive one is offered instead for a higher price.)

I know, you're thinking, they should pay them more. If they do, the price of the tour will go up. The tour companies are charging as little as possible to be competitive with each other.

If they could show to me where this is printed fairly prominently in the purchase contract, maybe I cut them a bit of slack, but it sounds like classic bait and switch.

Did you look at their website? The first question in their FAQ lays it all out: https://cietours.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/29825351785619-Is-tipping-for-tour-staff-included

Show me any hint of a bait and switch. There is also a chat button on the main page. Ask it if tips are included, and the correct information is immediately given. As has been repeatedly stated by people who have taken group tours, this tipping policy is one widely used by most European tour companies. You dont have to like it. You dont have to agree with it. But it is a fact of life, and I fail to see any disrespect in it.

Mr. E - You’re getting way too huffy about this. I went on the CIE tour company website and found this statement within two minutes:

“TIPS: Tips for personal services and to tour directors and drivers are not included in tour cost and left to the discretion of the traveler.”

So it’s not “bait and switch.”

Blaming the tour guide for a tipping and pay policy that they have no control over and that is TYPICAL for virtually every tour company except Rick Steves and Road Scholar is really unfair. Yes, IF the tour group has 30 people, they MAY earn $200+ per day, IF everyone actually tips the recommended amount, but considering they are “on” 24/7, this is not unreasonable. Keep in mind that not all groups are that large (OAT groups are limited to 16 and Gate 1 Discovery groups are 22). Also, most guides do not work 48-50 weeks a year. Much of the work is seasonal. And yes, many tour companies do indeed pay their guides very poorly; the guides really need those tips.

Personally, I much prefer that a decent salary be included in the tour’s cost, eliminating the need for tips. I write this in every tour evaluation at the end of every trip. But it’s not likely to change any time soon.

"Why was he angry? Because you paid the official rate? That was not part of your tour, was it?"

Nope. Just a cab ride from the airport to the hotel of the tour. I assume it was because the American didn't tip. Didn't ask. We'd talked on the ride and he changed quite a bit when I paid him.

We’ve been on a couple Tauck tours.

One for Spain/Portugal. One for South America. Both of these tours had high quality tour directors. We were told tips for daily types of things— meals, hotels, and so on— that tips were handled by the tour. We also read that tips for the tour director and bus driver were optional but typically given. We asked more seasoned Tauck tour takers on the trips what was the norm. We received a rather wide range of suggested tip levels. I think the British couple suggested relatively de minimus tips and some Americans suggested some eye opening levels.

I really love that Rick Steves tours include tips. I know if we were British citizens and we took a British tour that was normally filled with British nationals that the tip levels would be a fraction of the US levels. But tours designed for North Americans have higher tip level expectations. They pay their staff less with knowledge that US / Canadians tip more.

If I signed up for tour with tip expectations for normal service to be X, I’d tip X. I’d tip X+ if the service was exceptional. I’d tip X- if the service was subpar. Meanwhile, I’d seek out companies like Rick Steves that make this once less thing for me to worry about.

Happy travels!

I went on the CIE tour company website and found this statement within two minutes:

“TIPS: Tips for personal services and to tour directors and drivers are not included in tour cost and left to the discretion of the traveler.”

They should have left it at that.

I notice it's an Irish company. I wonder if they email Irish customers telling them how much to tip. I guess their clientele is predominantly North American by the spelling of traveller.

Tours or cruises are not my preferred way to travel. But I will go along with what is expected if I make that choice. I will read the fine print. If one tour is says tips are all included (probably more expensive) and if the other tour states that tipping is expected (probably cheaper), I will just do the math, compare the two tours and make a choice. The only thing that may get me upset would be traveling with those fellow travellers who don't bother to read the fine print and then refuse to tip those workers who are expecting it.

By the same token, I have no problems with "free tours". It is the epitome of free market enterprise, pay based upon performance. Just tell me what is a typical tip and I will decide whether I will take the tour, or not. If I take the free tour, I have no problem paying the expected minimum tip even if the tour was not that great; the guide would have to be a real jerk before I even consider reducing the tip. I may tip more if the guide was really great. If you are a person who takes advantage of free tours and never tips at all, that is an indictment on you, not the guide or the free tour system.

First plenty of Americans go into McDonalds in Europe. When we traveled with my teenager she was on a mission to try one in each country. Yes we went to plenty of other places but it was fun thing to compare.

Second we often do food tours or other tours not part of the Rick Steves tour and we always tip

On a RS tour a few summers ago two people on the tour tipped every local tour guide, our driver, and our head guide. My first thought was oh no now we will all have to tip on tours. We did not

Renee, yes to huffy. I should let it go. You are correct. Thanks.

They say its a $10 tour so you will buy it. You show up and they tell you its really a $12 tour ... which maybe you would not have bought had you known.

For me., they cross the line when they tell you how much to "tip" because at that point it ceases to be a tip for good service, now its a set fee service charge enforced through guilt and social pressure. Its dishonest. My holiday would be spoiled on day one. Just me.

Of course I am working with what the OP wrote. If the full context was that the information said "while tipping is discretionary it is not unusual to offer the guide ...." Then they still get nothing from me unless someone earned it, but i might be less huffy.

The CIE does not say tipping is mandatory. It suggests tipping amounts by country. Give whatever amount you want at the end of the trip.

I think all tipping is stupid, but thanks to the American Restaurant Association, they have created a culture whereby restaurant owners have figured out a way for the customers to pay server wages and now have figured out a way to have the customers pay the restaurant's credit card fee expenses.

Can't wait to see what they dream up next for the customer to pay for besides the food and drink we order and pay for as well.

They are not telling you how much to tip. They are suggesting a standard amount.

All tour companies state which tips you don't have to worry about--waiters at included meals, bellman at hotels etc-- and who you should consider tipping. All the information is there prior to you purchasing the tour. It's not a surprise if you read the material.

But most people don't read all of the material. They read, if lucky, where they are going. And even then, not always.

But you're begrudging someone $7/day because you don't like the idea. Someone who was up in the morning before you and probably goes to bed after you do. Someone who may be with the group from 12-16/hours a day, someone who while you have free time, is busy confirming all future hotels, restaurants, transportation, sights, guides, and the like, and putting out any fires that do, and often, occur, so you don't have any issues. They listen to complaints and try to fix them. They listen to special requests and try to fill them. With one goal in mind....to give you a good trip.

But that's not enough. You have to actually see him earn it and decide if he did enough.

A good tour director, during season, works long days and sometimes weeks at a time without a day off. They are not on vacation. They are working and trying to do the best they can. If they don't feel well, too bad, they have a job to do. If they are tired, too bad, they have a job to do.

I won't even start on all the paperwork they have to do. Tour companies seem to love paperwork.

If the idea of giving an extra $7/day to someone who really works hard is too much for you to bear, then perhaps an organized tour is not for you. Or go on a tour, where the $7 is included in the price so you think you're not paying it.

Now, what if your tour director is really bad. Then, no, you don't have to tip that person. You should also let the tour company know. However, good or bad, when tips "are included" that person is getting the extra no matter what. You've paid it upfront.

Threadware, like I said, I didn’t read the information that the OP received after the OP paid for the trip. I should have tempered my response because of that. I just responded to "... and they mention that our tour leader (guide) should get 7 euros/person per day ..." Which is directive and not discretionary. But those might have been the OPs words. FrankII has read the text I guess, so I will defer to him.

Too often when this sort of thing happens it’s a business trying to make things look to be a lower cost to sucker you in. That’s deceptive. I don’t like deceptive. If that’s what is going on … not saying it is, g-d forbid, I would have to read what the OP received first … but if it is then the employees have to know, that makes them party to the scheme and I don’t care how hard they worked …

Then what if it’s an Italian or a Spanish tour? Do I tip the local tour guide? The gentleman who has never left a tip in his life, because it’s just not part of the culture. Should I be surprised when it’s suggested by the tour company that I, along with the others, tip him half of his wages for the day in a country where no one is tipped?

What’s sort of funny about this discussion is usually I am the one in the group being branded for bringing tipping to Europe and then escalating the tipping percentages. Guilty as charged. By the way, tipping came from Europe to the US. We are just returning the favor.

Mr. E,,,when you are back in the US, and you go to a restaurant, do you not leave a tip for the server because the restaurant didn't specifically tell you about tipping or you feel the restaurant isn't doing their job by expecting you to tip? Do you take it out on the server?

(By the way, a restaurant company in NYC decided they would pay higher wages and tell customers they need not tip. Customers hated it and left a tip anyway.)

And in countries where tipping is not expected, it is different for tours. In Japan, tipping is taboo. But tour companies will mention tipping.

I worked in the tour industry. No tour company neglects from mentioning gratuities in their initial offering. It's just that most people don't read it.

Mr. E, I'm guessing you've never taken a tour nor plan to. But you've flown. Do you get angry when you have to pay extra for extra baggage? Do you say the airline is not doing proper business practices? All additional costs are there in black and white. You can know all of them ahead of time. Yet how many people show up at the airport and are surprised they have to pay more for things.

Tour companies are in competition for customers. So they try to keep that initial price low. The same for cruises, car dealerships, airlines, etc. They have an initial lower price to get you interested and in the door. Then the extras start.

Remember the car brand Saturn. It's big thing was no haggling, everything for one price. Remember? They went out of business.

"Mr. E,,,when you are back in the US, and you go to a restaurant, do you not leave a tip for the server because the restaurant didn't specifically tell you about tipping or you feel the restaurant isn't doing their job by expecting you to tip? Do you take it out on the server?"

I am not Mr.E, but if I went to the USA, I would not tip or tip my usual 10 per cent. Wages of staff are not my responsibility.

Ready for hate in 3...2...1....

So many opinions from people who have never used an European tour company and don't know anything about this. This has nothing to do with US tipping. It's the European way of running a tour. And Gerry, yes the Irish are sent the same information. We've traveled extensively with French companies while living in the US before and now in France. On these tours an envelope is passed through the bus for local guide and driver tips. This is nothing new.

During the first trip we took, with a French company to Turkish Anatolia, indeed we were surprised when a tip envelope passed "secretly" through the bus. Unlike the others, we had no advance knowledge. Panic. We asked French, Belgium, Swiss, and Luxembourgeois tour mates, but got gallic shrugs. so we put a bunch of dollars in with their euros. It turns out we put in so much that the Luxembourgois wife joked that we were sponsoring the driver. He gave us a lot of smiles from then on.

So OP, you are very lucky that CIE has reminded you in advance and has given you a fixed amount. This is very typical of an tour by an European company.

And I hope others with limited European experience can get over their shock and accusations against the company just because it's something you've have no knowledge about. You've heard from Frank II and me and got the straight story. We both have extensive experience with this. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it's wrong or a rip off.

kootha, in the US a number of surveys have asked wait staff if they want higher wages in lieu of tipping. The majority say no, Among those who have chosen it as a career its overwhelmingly no.

Mr. E, I'm guessing you've never taken a tour nor plan to.

Just completed one.

But you've flown. Do you get angry when you have to pay extra for
extra baggage?

Never had a desk agent suggest another 7 euro would be appropriate for checking my bag. Geee, is that happening? I thought all that was dealt with when I bought the ticket. Oh, you mean I show up at the airport with more luggage than I had purchased passage for. Sort of like having to pay for the extra shore tour you hadnt planned on taking. When i get something in return, its not a tip, its payment. When I appreciate the way what i bought was delivered to me, then the extra is a tip.

FrankII, since you read the marketing materials and the notice sent to the OP's and I havent, I will give this argument for the OP's particular case.

So if I am Spanish and I hire a local Spanish tour guide I will be expected to tip the guide? Or is this something developed by US tour companies for Americans going to Spain?

Since it is appropriate to tip guides working for tour companies in countries where tipping is pratically taboo do I tip self employeed tour guides in Italy? Maybe before the trip the guide should tell me what is an appropriate tip beyond what I have already paid?

Kootah, when people visit Lithuania, and I have been there, do you think people should learn about the local customs and ways of doing things or just act the way they do at home?

When you travel, do you respect the customs of the places you visit or just act the way you do at home. And expect people to think that's okay?

When I travel, I learn about local customs, what's expected of me, and yes, even the appropriate way to tip or not to tip.

As an example, in France, it is customary to greet the service people you meet in shops and restaurants. A simple, "Bonjour." Would you not do that because you don't do that in Lithuania?

I see myself as a guest in their country and try to act accordingly.

kootha, in the US a number of surveys have asked wait staff if they want higher wages in lieu of tipping. The majority say no, Among those who have chosen it as a career its overwhelmingly no.

That's because they know they're onto a good thing.

Now ask the American public if they'd prefer restaurant staff to be paid a proper wage and no tipping required, I suspect the overwhelming majority would be in favour.

It is worth noting that CIE tours are a division of CIE- the Irish state nationalised public transport company- Irish Rail and Bus Eireann are within their portfolio, as are ports, and (in the past) railway hotels, road freight transport etc.

Although this question relates to Italy, the same tipping policy appears to apply for their UK and Ireland tours- in both countries people are paid a minimum or living wage (call it what you will). They are not working for fresh air.

Presumably in continental Europe CIE contract the work to local companies, where the driver at least will be being paid whatever that country's minimum wage policy is.

The CIE website seems to be weighted towards North American travellers. I'm sure I could book from England, but if I see a North American toll free number I wouldn't because that tells me the real market they are aiming for, also seeing the policy upfront is a big turn off for me.

So the way I look at it is, that CIE are somewhere along the line using this tipping policy to boost their profits- so in a sideways manner assisting Irish Rail and Bus Eireann- not necessarily a bad thing.

When I travel with tours in the UK with UK companies, I know that the Tour Director is an employee of the company (not a freelancer), so is earning a good wage. That does not mean that the proverbial hat is not passed around- but it is much more discretionary (usually very discrete, not a 'hat' or an envelope- more a bill pressed quietly into the driver/guide's hand), and there is no expectation that it must be £x per day.
Maybe 5 tour companies I have used in the fairly recent past. None of which are the sort of companies who run the same tour day in, day out, or every week, but bespoke one off tours.
This week may be the Scottish Highlands, next week Cornwall, the week after Wales etc.
So I admit that if you travelled with my companies you would get a surprise when the hat was passed round, or saw others at the end of the trip doing the secret handshake, but there is no element of compulsion there.
The way tipping should be.

Bus Eireann used to run tours (I don't think they do now), under their own name (as do or did Ulsterbus in Northern Ireland) aimed mainly at their own domestic markets. I would be very surprised if they had such an upfront tipping policy.

Now ask the American public if they'd prefer restaurant staff to be paid a proper wage and no tipping required, I suspect the overwhelming majority would be in favour.

Actually, no. It has been tried in a number of restaurants and failed. Most diners felt uncomfortable not leaving a tip because it is what they are used to doing.

What is getting people upset is the number of people asking for tips who haven't gotten them in the past.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-gastronomy/the-limitations-of-american-restaurants-no-tipping-experiment

Mr. E....the tour you just took...was it a multi day tour run by a tour company or something you put together? Did you tip the guide?

Would you refuse to tip a server in a US restaurant because they didn't mention it on the menu or you felt you paid for the food and why should you give extra?

If you hire a guide directly, and they get to keep all of the money, then it is their business and you don't have to tip. It's unusual to tip the owner of a business since they don't have to share the fee with anyone.

I also find it interesting that people who have never worked in the tour industry try to figure out how it works.

A tour company offers tours. It has to figure out what it's going to cost to operate that tour. To decide pricing, it has to see what its competitors are doing as well. Most tours of certain areas will have very similar itineraries. They have to price it in such a way that they don't lose business to other companies.

I worked for a large international tour company that had two divisions. One mid level and one budget. The itineraries were basically the same but the prices were different. How? A number of factors...the budget tour stayed in lower quality hotels and had much of its sightseeing as optional excursions. The mid level tour, in most cases, stayed in slightly better hotels. Many of the optionals were included in the tour price.

As a tour director, I got paid the same regardless of which division I was working with on each tour. But how I made extra money was different. On the mid level tour, I got better tips. On the budget tours the tips were less but I got a commission selling and operating the optional excursions.

Surprisingly, or not surprisingly, someone taking the budget tour and signed up for most of the optionals actually paid slightly more than if they had taken the mid level tour in the first place.

But it was that initial price that hooked them on the budget tour. The same way a discount airline hooks people with the low fares but the final price may be higher once they start adding on the extras.

I also worked for a company that dealt mostly with Australian tourists. Australia is not known for tipping. So I had to get paid more from the tour company to keep me from leaving and going somewhere else. The price of the tour was also higher because the tour company had to pay the tour director more. (Similar to why a RS tour is more than a similar "tipping" tour.)

Coaches are hired from a coach company . Payments to drivers are set either by the coach company or their union contracts. The tour company has nothing to do with it.

The tour companies are not making a bigger profit because they expect their tour directors to get tips. The are keeping the price low to be competitive.

Tipping is not mandatory. You don't have to tip. It is a way of saying thank you to your tour director and driver for doing a great job and making sure you had a good time.

But look at it this way. Some of you don't leave tips wherever you go. Okay, that's fine. Others will leave 5 maybe 10%. And that's in restaurants. To a server who you may have contact with for an hour or two.

On a tour, that tour director is with you day and night. He is on call 24 hours a day.

I looked at an 8 day CIE tour of Italy. The price came out to be about $330/day not including transportation to Italy. They are suggesting a tip of $7/day. That means they are asking you to think about tipping your tour director just over 2% of the tour price.

I guess that is too much for some people even if you had a great time.

I'm no going to go on with this. Some of you are adamant that no matter what happens you are not tipping. Fine. Don't.

Mr. E....the tour you just took...was it a multi day tour run by a
tour company or something you put together? Did you tip the guide?

Three of my last 5 trips have been through tour agencies. The three trips were through 2 different tour companies and neither one of them told me at the start of the trip that the money paid in advance wasnt good enough and they expected me to tip the 4 different guides and about as many drivers for their services.

I tipped and fed all the guides and most of the drivers. All were outstanding guides and drivers by the way. And I suspect a few on the froum are painfully aware that when I get good value and good service I promote the heck out of them. But if any of them had begun the tour by telling me what they expected for a tip ... well, that’s so crass where I come from, they would have ended up with zero.

Would you refuse to tip a server in a US restaurant because they
didn't mention it on the menu or you felt you paid for the food and
why should you give extra?

I didn’t comment on our friend above because it wasn’t mentioned on the menu (tour itinerary). I commented because, in my mind, they converted it from a tip (offered without obligation and without coercion and in appreciation of services rendered) to a service charge (a fixed and expected sum announced before services were rendered).

If you hire a guide directly, and they get to keep all of the money, then it is their business and you don't have to tip. It's unusual to tip the owner of a business since they don't have to share the fee with anyone.

So now I must determine if my guide is employed by the agency or is a private contractor to the agency? My guide last week I suspect was a private contractor so I guess by your reasoning I screwed up by tipping him? Naaaaa, he was that good. Deserved it.

But as I said, since CIE did nothing approaching coercion by your reading of the document sent to the OP, I am good with it all. The minute someone tells me how big a tip they are expecting from me, even before they render the service, I wouldn’t give a cent, but that’s why it’s a tip and not a service fee.

Lots of strong opinions on this thread! It seems like no one is holding back…

My turn. I have taken, or am signed up to take, tours with Rick Steves Europe, Gate 1 travel, Inspiring Vacations, and Exodus Adventure Travel. All of these tour companies price their tours slightly differently, but all of them are clear about what they charge and the payment structure. Having looked at the CIE website, I believe they are also clear.

I’ve been a bit surprised at how many people insist that it is somehow outrageous for the tour companies to suggest a daily tip structure. Every tour company does this. Rick Steves just has you pay it as part of the tour fee so it is not as transparent. Nothing wrong with either system, they all end up taking care of the guide.

It is on the consumer to understand what he/she is signing up for before signing up for a tour. Know the pricing structure, meal inclusions, included sightseeing, and optional events. Most tour companies will tell you the anticipated hotels. Rick Steves does not.

When I am comparing tour companies I add base fare, expected tips, solo supplement, and any options together to determine final pricing. It may take an extra 5 minutes, but I then know the total cost. I use this information along with the itineraries, available dates for travel, and maximum group size to help me determine which tour group I feel is best for that particular trip.

If you book a guide through a tour company or travel agency or visitor's bureau, they are sharing a good chunk of the fee with that company. They don't get to keep it all. If, when they meet you, they mention that company, then they are getting paid by that company. If they don't, then it is just a booking service and are paying them a commission.

If you contact a guide directly, no middleman, then you are hiring them direclty and don't have to tip.

Tips/Gratuties are always optional. They are not a service charge. They are not mandatory. Some tour companies put suggested amounts because if they didn't, they be inundated with questions like "How much should I tip?"

In my tour days, I had people who gave nothing, people who gave the exact amount suggested, and some who gave a lot more.

Tipping is always optional. But it is appreciated.

Carol now retired, I don’t really disagree with you. Your logic always comes through well on the forum. So, when you speak i back up and read again. If CIE says the tour doesn’t include tips (and it did say that), then at the time of booking I would probably figure that I would be out another $120 in tips before its all over.

Its in my cultural background to see asking for tips as rude; stating the amount is silly rude. If I had known in advance I would not have hired the tour group, because it’s an indicator of different values and differing values over a business relationship can go seriously wrong.

They will just have to be disappointed with me because, if the service is good, they will get the $120. The good guide might get $15 a day, and the snooty guide might get $2, or maybe nothing. If the business is going to define it as a tip so they can play their pricing games, then I get to treat it as a tip, meaning it’s not mandatory and I get to decide to whom or if I give it. RS in my mind is a lot more transparent. I don’t care about his business profits, that’s none of my business, I care about my cost and if it’s worth the value I get in return.

But if you really want to show appreciation, which is what a tip is supposed to be about, then in addition to the tip, promote them here if they deserve it.

As for my general tipping, most often at or above the local average. Even Italy and Spain I round up if the service was good. But I have no ill feelings for anyone with a different attitude on the subject. Each to their own.

Thats if for me on this topic. If anyone wants to take me on further, PM.

I am reminded of this classic joke:

Three rabbis walk into a synagogue to settle an argument.Two of them agree on the issue, but the third rabbi strongly disagrees. He cries out, "Oh Lord, if I am right, let that tree outside be uprooted!"Suddenly, a massive gust of wind rips the tree out of the ground.The other two rabbis shrug. "A coincidence. A strong wind proves nothing."The third rabbi looks up and shouts, "Lord, if I am right, let the river flow backward!"Instantly, the nearby river reverses direction.The two rabbis shake their heads. "Still just a fluke. Nature does strange things."Furious, the third rabbi screams, "God, give us a sign!"The clouds part, a blinding flash of lightning strikes, and a booming voice shakes the earth: "HE IS RIGHT!"The third rabbi smiles triumphantly and folds his arms. "Well?"The other two rabbis look at each other, shrug, and say, "Okay, so now it's three against two.

They are suggesting a tip of $7/day. That means they are asking you to think about tipping your tour director just over 2% of the tour price. I guess that is too much for some people who may have had a great time.

Come on, don't try to fool me with hocus maths. Out of that $330 per day, a certain amount is for the hotel- let's say $150, so that leaves $180. Then deduct the cost of the hire of the bus- not tippable to hire a bus.

So you are tipping on a much smaller figure than $330, whatever that tippable figure actually is.

Being a TD or even a tour company is not an especially seasonal business in the UK.

Tour companies here finds ways to fill their buses and keep drivers/TD's working in the off season- so November to December is the time to do festive tours (Turkey and Tinsel, Thursford, Christmas Lights/Kew/Concerts in London, Christmas Markets round the country, that kind of thing), then the dark days of January/February are the times to do things like the South of Spain sunshine tours, or Devon and Cornwall, filling hotels which would otherwise be quiet- and the generally better climate down in the South West.
One company I have used also own hotels in Scotland and Northern England which are open 12 months a year, so it's about being inventive how to market the Scottish Highlands in the depths of winter. In fact I am looking at one of their trips in December, north of Inverness, currently.

It also means the TD has to have way more knowledge than one who is leading the same tour, week in week out.

So, I'm guessing, when and If you tip in a restaurant, you look at a 20 pound bill and think....wait, that's probably 8 pounds for food, and one pound for utilities, and the rest of the staff is maybe 5 pounds, so I should only tip on 6 pounds.

Yes, tours are given all year long. But if you look at the number of tours being given in the off season, compared to the number of tours being given during the height of the season, it's a lot less.

Depending on the tour company, a UK based tour company may not send a UK based tour director to Spain to run a tour. More than likely they will hire an English speaking Spaniard to run the tour. It's a bigger selling point to have a native of that area run the tour than someone from the UK.

One reason I love RS tours is that the tipping is inclusive in the cost. Some tour companies offer lower cost, but then have suggested tips for the guide and driver. They do work hard for you. If you read what is included/excluded from the tour it may mention that tips are excluded, so it is up to the tour member to tip appropriately. It is also suggested not required. However, if you are being taken care of and feel that you got the experience you had hoped for, it would be appropriate to tip. I recently went on a Gate 1 tour with a tip amount in mind. Iceland is a cashless society, for the most, part so I took out my tip money and a bit more just in case. I ended up tipping more because the trip was outstanding! Others were very loud about how they don't tip, because they already paid for the tour. You need to decide.