STRUGGLING on Croatia/Slovenia + more timing and schedule

Croatia and Slovenia are both breathtaking. Fortunately, Slovenia is compact and you can easily drive from Ljubljana to Lake Bled in 45 minutes. From Bled, It’s another 1:15 drive to Skocjan Caves or a 1 hour drive to Postojna Cave. You could easily start out from Ljubljana, stop in Lake Bled and continue another 30 minutes to Lake Bohinj which is actually inside Triglav National Park. Lake Bohinj is peaceful and uncrowded whereas Lake Bled is one of those overtouristed venues I like to avoid. I stayed in Ribcev Laz near Lake Bohinj and biked around the area with views of turquoise lakes and mountains.
From Lake Bohinj, it’s a 90-minute drive to Postojna Caves and a further 30 minutes to Skocjan Caves. ( Skocjan Caves are just incredible).
Skadar National Park is in Montenegro— not Slovenia or Croatia — and it’s a long haul far from anywhere else in your itinerary. Also, I’m not sure if you’re aware renting a car in one country and dropping it off in another country will incur the notorious “ one way drop-off charge” which can easily add up to one thousand dollars ( yes—$1,000)! to the rental car cost. You definitely want to research this before committing to an itinerary that might have this surcharge.
Europcar and Sixt are two car rental companies that will allow you to drive into Montenegro— for an additional fee. Note that there will be a delay at the border with all the paperwork reviews by border officials when you want to cross the border with a rental car.
Putting that issue aside for the moment— so you can relax on your anniversary holiday and not be stressed out by driving the entire time—I would suggest returning the car in Ljubljana and taking the 2-hour train to Zagreb.
From Zagreb it’s a 90-minute bus ride to Plitvice Lakes National Park ( PLNP). From PLNP it’s a 3.5-hour bus ride to Split.
Staying overnight at one of the government-run National Park lodges ( there are 3) allows you to buy a two-day admission for the price of one day to PLNP during the afternoon of the arrival day and again the next morning on check-out day. This allows you to see the park after all the daytrippers have mostly left on day 1 and before they arrive on day 2. It’s really the only way to enjoy PLNP without the crowds it’s noted for.
The best part of Croatia on the Dalmatian Coast is that you can take ferries or high-speed catamarans from Split to Hvar (1- hour by catamaran) to Korcula ( 90 minutes by catamaran) and then to Dubrovnik (2 hours) by catamaran.
The Krilo catamaran is the one to take.
www.Krilo.hr/en
www.AutoEurope.com
www.Skyscanner.com

I am a little confused also, so am trying to set an order to this.
Friday: arrive Ljubljana
4 nights (Fri-Mon) Slovenia
Tues head to Zagreb and rent a car

Then you have 9 nights in Croatia, with the final Wed. being wherever you fly from.
Thurs fly to London
Friday fly home.

An easy path would be Zagreb to Plitvice, Plitvice to Split (return the car), ferry to Dubrovnik (decide it you want an island stop on the way). There are all kinds of ways to do this, but maybe:
Tues night: Zagreb 1 night (and get the car Wednesday)
Wed night: Plitvice 1 night
Thurs & Fri nights: Split 2 nights
Sat & Sun nights: Island 2 nights
Mon-Wed nights: Dubrovnik 3 nights

You could also skip either Zagreb or an island stop and spread those nights elsewhere.

And are you talking about the Skadar Lake National Park that is in Montenegro? You don’t have time for that. But do go sometime!

Kenko - I am so grateful for your thoughtful reply! It sounds like Slovenia would be pretty straightforward to navigate, even if we based in Ljubljana and did day trips with the car. Lake Bohinj sounds like much more of our jam. I dont think I realized that the one way fee in a different country was so steep, so thank you for that! Sounds like we likely should just give the car back in Ljubljana and then get a different car in Zagreb to drop in Dubrovnik - a quick glance shows a $70 one way fee since same country, which I could stomach. Is Zagreb worth a night or two to explore? It's so tough since there's so many places to go.

We REALLY want to do Skadar if that is doable - I didn't want to make the title too long and forgot to include Montenegro in that title- but it sounds like theres an additional fee for that - is that a pretty hefty amount? I have no issue doing an overnight there towards the tail end before ending up in Dubrovnik.

Is the Dubrovnik or Split coastline much different than Korcula/Hvar? We live in FL so we are used to beaches (gratefully). Elevation/hiking is our thing when we are gone, but we appreciate amazing sights.

Texas Travel Mom - Thank you so much as well! I am tired, so I probably didn't write it out as clearly as I had imagined.

Is there any universe where you see Skadar being an option? We REALLY want to experience it if at all possible. Could we sub it for those island nights?

What would be your go to option for getting from Ljubljana to Zagreb? Is there a particular train or bus you'd suggest?

I'm a Zagreb fan. The city has a very attractive, bi-level historic center and looks quite different from Ljubljana (which is another attractive capital city). The last I heard many of the large museums in Zagreb hadn't reopened after the earthquake several years ago (I haven't checked that), but there are some nice, small museums in the historic district if you like that sort of thing. The Museum of Broken Relationships is a lot of fun.

If you make it all the way to Lake Skadar, I hope you'll be able to travel by way of the Bay of Kotor--though the driver won't get the full benefit of the fjord-like views there. That bay is one of Montenegro's top scenic highlights.

Lest there be doubt: The capital of Montenegro, Podgorica, is considerably less interesting than its name. Among the many more worthwhile towns in Montenegro are Herceg Novi, Cetinje, Kotor, Budva and Ulcinj. I'm not a fan of Perast, but quite a number of others here are.

Skadar National Park is a 3.5-hour drive from Dubrovnik, so it is doable and I think you should go there because it’s on the top of your list. As the adage says: “…..Let me do it now… for I may not pass this way again….”
While in Dubrovnik, take the 15-minute boat from Dubrovnik’s Old Town to the island just offshore—Lokrum National Park. You can easily spend a day hiking here because it has a 15th-century Monastery where the IRON THRONE from the Game of Thrones is now. After they filmed scenes here, HBO left the Iron Throne here for all to enjoy. You can not only see it at no cost— you can sit on the throne (!) and take some great pix of each other.

Lokrum has beautiful pine forests, beaches and a fort ( “Fort Royal”) that Napolean had built after he added Dubrovnik to his list of conquests. From Fort Royal you can get great pix of Dubrovnik just a few miles away in the distance.
Have a great trip!

Skadar National Park is a 3.5-hour drive from Dubrovnik, so it is
doable and I think you should go there because it’s on the top of your
list. As the adage says: “…..Let me do it now… for I may not pass this
way again….”

The sad thing is you pass through one of the most beaufitul contires without seeing the best of it. A country full of everything that the OP is looking for .... more so than Croatia I believe. Or at least with fewer tourists. See it if you need to or better wait until you can see the entire country.

I just cut and paste this from another thread as an example of what you will drive past and not see:

• Perast, 1 night here is sweet, and you can do a day trip to Kotor if you make it 2 nights. https://youtu.be/q2nckBnc7_M?si=CohK_4nsI6l7chEB
• Stari Bar, to visit on the way to Ulcinj, maybe not to stay. https://youtu.be/OBU56OT78fw?si=tzF65lSmOXSEpWKZ
• Ulcinj, 2 or 3 nights https://youtu.be/SBY7G9HHw5s?si=wjPy2V0P1mhua7Cs
• Tara River Canyon, 1 or 2 nights (Motel Tara MB) https://youtu.be/9aGMZB8hB5Y?si=NFKsf6YtGAX2uVCa
• Ostrog Monastery, 1 night (Hotel & Restaurant Sokoline) https://youtu.be/ixrJu6qv46M?si=WML9Hs2hOQCsKZwE AND https://youtu.be/miNV1FVK7qI?si=iZC_lViMUEk6JGI
• Budva: 1 night, Sure or 2 nights https://youtu.be/GF7hyxB8Xq4?si=re2lmDTm5pRNpioH

My husband and I went to Croatia for our honeymoon, and we loved it so much (and felt we missed so much with two weeks) that we returned three more times, and we'll definitely go again at some point.
The flights are booked, so to me, that means make a trip out of the places between the two airports because the most important thing to me is to maximize the time I have. If you really feel you will never ever get back, then put your dream spot to the top of the list (maybe fly from one of the northern spots if possible?), but I guarantee there are spectacular places in Croatia that you are going to pass right by.
What is it about Skadar that made it such a priority? Maybe some of us can suggest an alternative.

In response to ACraven about the museums in Zagreb, they are slowly reopening after renovations. If you are interested in any, I would check each one’s websites.

I have not been to Zagreb yet, so I have no advice to offer. With only 4 weeks for Croatia, I gave 5 nights to Slovenia instead and it got Zagreb’s time. Edit: plus I had a car the entire time. I am also no help with busses or trains.

Skadar Lake is beautiful and worth seeing. But so is much more in Montenegro. I would ask what your plan is once you arrive. Sometimes it comes down to practicalities. If you return your car in Split and use the ferries, you will need another car from Dubrovnik. An hour to rent (cause that is never fast), a 3 1/2 hr drive (probably doable), then 30 min to park in Virpazar, then a 2 hour boat ride, and return. Not my idea of an enjoyable day trip - plus the driver has trouble enjoying the scenery.

If it truly is a must see (and Kenko is right, we never know the future), then skip some of Croatia and plan to stay a few nights in Montenegro. acraven is right about Podgorica but I know a cute B&B between the lake and city - and an amazing winery right there. If you have 2 nights, you would have time to stop along the way as you drive the Bay of Kotor, then spend a day for lake and winery (or 2). Pick a spot to stop for a night on the way back (or there as desired).

OR stay a night on the way there, 2 nights near the lake, and fly to London from Podgorica if one way drop off isn’t too high or if you have a driver.

Maybe some variation of:
4 nights Slovenia
1 night Plitvice
2 nights Split
2 nights Dubrovnik
2 nights (one full day) near Skadar
1 night along the way back (you could skip this and add the night elsewhere earlier - just your priorities. Watch some of Mr. É’s videos.)
1 night before flight. (If you fly from Podgorica, you would have this night available elsewhere.)

That’s a lot of moving around.

We did a similar trip. We spent 2 nights in Ljubljana (bike tour was fun), then rented a car and spent two nights up in Kobarid to see the ww1 museum and take a white water kayaking lesson. We stopped at Lake Bled on the way. We returned the car to Ljubljana and took the train to Rijeka where we rented our Croatia wheels. From there we did all the visits we wanted - in our case, Rovinj, mountaintop towns, Plitvice, Split (where we paid to park that rental - Oh well - few plans are perfect), Mostar, Kotor and then returned the car in Dubrovnik to fly out, visiting Dubrovnik, of course, and doing both kayak and bike tours.

There was significant driving, I guess, but the train from Slovenia to Croatia took away one of the big potential drives.

2 nights (one full day) near Skadar

At least, cause you are going to spend 7 hours on the road and gawd knows how much on a rental. I would suggest if you are going to do such a thing that you hire a transfer service. And yes, the use of the Podgorica airport vs Dubrovnik makes a lot of sense. Then maybe you could stop in Ulcij or Stari Bar or ....... Croatia is beautiful. Montenegro is Croatia before the tourists found it.

Plitvice ......... dont even get me started. And Split? Okay, maybe in May before the drunk european university trustfund brats show up en mass..... maybe .....

Tiger fan - it sounds like youve done this with proof of concept - we were hoping to sneak in Mostar along the drive and then Kotor at the tail end of the trip.

What did you think of Rijeka? That wasn't on our initial list, but I"m not opposed at all if the train is easy to use

TexasTravelMom - You are AMAZING. I am so grateful again for all your insight!

I'm thinking we get a car once we enter Croatia (to avoid the massive one way fees people have mentioned), and drive through Montenegro to Skadar and return the car in Dubrovnik. I'd want to keep the same one for the majority of the trip since you get used to it after awhile. Would you suggest a smaller car or a larger one? And are the border crossings a little scary?

We were thinking of doing 2 nights in Montenegro (could be extended to 3 if theres plenty of awesome stuff to see).

The biggest hangup we have so far is Plitvice. We want to see it (everyone says its so amazingly beautiful), but then I read the stories of it being overrun by people and making it hard to enjoy, and it seems semi out of the way relative to everything else. Theres a part of me that wants to drive there from Rijeka (i.e. train to Rijeka), spend 4 hours there to see it, and then drive to split to knock that out, but that also sounds like a semi-hellish day....but it saves us time on the grand scheme.

Out of the 13 nights we have, maybe this?
4 nights in Slovenia
3 in split
2 in Dubrovnik
3 in Montenegro (near Skadar)
1 flex day (added wherever).

I want to be realistic but also enjoy

I'm here for ALL the montenegro assistance since its sounding like we should have at least 3 nights there

If a traveler does any significant amount of research, he or she will find there's not enough time to see all the things on the target list. That's Europe--there's something interesting every few miles out in the country and often every block or two in a city. If you push to try to see everything, you won't get full enjoyment out of your trip and may crash and burn before the end of it, from exhaustion.

Plitvice Lakes National Park is lovely, but it is mobbed during day-tripping hours, and I think for most travelers it's not worth seeing if you have to see it that way. It's very worthwhile if you can spend a night in or very near the park, seeing part of it late on the day you arrive in the area and part early the next morning. Doing that, you'll avoid the worst of the crowds. If your only realistic option is four hours in the middle of the day, I'd skip it. Maybe you'll fall in love with that part of Europe and decide to return.

Montenegro is a beautiful country. Unfortunately, the national parks don't seem to be accessible by public transportation, so I'd encourage you to take advantage of the rental car and spend extra time there if you can. But don't get so dazzled by the Bay of Kotor that you drive the car into the bay.

If a traveler does any significant amount of research, he or she will find there's not enough time to see all the things on the target list. That's Europe--there's something interesting every few miles out in the country and often every block or two in a city. If you push to try to see everything, you won't get full enjoyment out of your trip and may crash and burn before the end of it, from exhaustion.

Plitvice Lakes National Park is lovely, but it is mobbed during day-tripping hours, and I think for most travelers it's not worth seeing if you have to see it that way. It's very worthwhile if you can spend a night in or very near the park, seeing part of it late on the day you arrive in the area and part early the next morning. Doing that, you'll avoid the worst of the crowds. If your only realistic option is four hours in the middle of the day, I'd skip it. Maybe you'll fall in love with that part of Europe and decide to return.

Plitvice Lakes National Park: I always push back when someone says "I saw it, but you dont need to". But I wil tell you my experience. One August mid week day drove from Zagreb leaving about 9am. So we arrived about 11am. There were people there but it wasnt horrible. We hit the trails and as the hours progressed they became more and more crowded until it was just silly. I would say we had 2 good hours to enjoy and 2 hours trying to reach an exit. But, just how long do you want to walk up and down. Its not a flat walk down the street. Are you up to 4, 6, 8 hours? Our first two hours were great. Then happy to leave and it will never be in the top 50 places I have visited. And not leave the parkt to go to a nothing hotel in a nothing location near the park. We were on holiday so we headed to Split and were there for dinner and the town in the evening. Unfortunately so were thousands of drunk European TrustFund brats. So the next day we hit the tourism route hard and pulled out before the brats began drinking again. Next stop Dubrovnik.

Yes it was a fast trip across Croatia. We spent four nights in Dubrovnik (second visit in 5 years) and did some day trips and enjoyed it and Zagreb the most of Croatia. Then on to Montenegro. I love Montenegro and this was the 4th trip back. A night i Perast, a visit to Kotor for lunch and a drive up the scenic high road (P1) to Cetinje with a stop at a local prosciutto curing house. Then finally on to Budva for a couple of nights. As much to slow down as to enjoy the water sports. Then on to Stari Bar as a stop on the way to Ulcinj where another couple of nights to slow down. Then to Podgorica for a flight to Athens. What my daughter missed in Montenegro was the Tara River Canyon and Ostrog; and that was a real shame, but she wanted to see Greece and this was her trip.

We skipped a lot because like you we had limited time. Not my first trip to the region so I didnt miss much but my daughter i think whished we had skipped somehting to spend more time in Montenegro. How did we cover so much from Zagreb to the flight to Athens. We hired guides with cars. No worry about returning or paying drop off fees, no worry about traffic fines or getting lost, no worry about parking costs. Just ride an enjoy. And while Croatia is pretty much Western European prices, Montenegro is a lot less, so it wasnt an expensive trip even doing it well as we did. How did we find the guides? We hired a trip planner for the region. Today i think she charges a few hundred dollars to plan it for you. I think its smart for a region with little public transportation if you want to get the most out of a short stay.

If it were my trip, I would save Slovenia for a trip with Italy and Austria; they pair well together. But Montenegro is sort of down there and its harder to pair with much beyond Croatia .... so do it with Croatia. If you like the idea of Skadar National Park, you wil probably enjoy a lot in the country.

Time it right and you might run into me fishing.

Lots of good thoughts here. I actually really liked Plitvice. But my experience was in 2021 and I have only been once - so that doesn’t make me expert. When I went, tourism was still slower after Covid. The park opened at 8 and I was in at 8:30, did circuit C slowly, and was back in the car heading to Split at 3. I did some reading last night and apparently it now opens at 7 (you’d want to double check that). I have seen pictures of what acraven describes, though. If it is on your absolutely-want-to-see list, then you spend a night there before you go and be in as soon as it opens. That would be your extra night.

I also liked Split and spent 3 nights, I am not sure about the GoT sights - I probably mistakenly thought there were more in Dubrovnik. It’s conceivable you could get by with 2 nights in Split.

If you drive Split to Dubrovnik, you will have to pay rental costs for days when you park and don’t drive, PLUS find lodging with parking.

If you return the car in Split and get another in Dubrovnik, you can take the ferry Split to Dubrovnik AND stay right in the old city of both. Or from Dubrovnik, opt for a driver. You might have to do some number crunching.
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Montenegro is gorgeous. I spent a slow 2 weeks there with a rental car. The biggest disadvantage was that I found few pull-out places to admire the view. Roads are fine but narrow - by the coast it’s crowded and many places away from the coast are mountainous. It doesn’t allow for a lot of looking around for the driver (me). So a driver isn’t a ridiculous idea. I had 3 days in that 2 weeks with a guide/driver (plus a transfer Dubrovnik to the BnB near Podgorica) and they were all 100% worth it.

Border crossings are not scary at all - you just have to have the required papers for your rental car, which the rental company should have ready for you. However, they CAN be time-consuming. We took the longer route but shorter crossing time via a northern crossing (wish I could tell you the name but I think through/by Trebinje) but the road took us past this amazing spot https://maps.app.goo.gl/2pxfM1LiRRtHKqAa8?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy. If you go this route, you will go past, and should have time for Ostrog Monastery. (And MAYBE past Mr. É’s favorite restaurant there: Sokoline Mali Hotel Restaurant. That would be a long day but doable.)

Then spend the night near Skadar Lake and spend the next day there. If you finish with time to spare, the beach at Petrovac is not far. It’s not one of Montenegro’s finest but it’s nice if you only have a few hours.

Then fly from Podgorica. If you fly from Dubrovnik, it will require a night in Dubrovnik before your flight, but you could spend that day driving back along the gorgeous Bay of Kotor. That will be a full day, with a couple of stops - you just have to decide where. Ha!

If you have an extra night to allocate to Montenegro as you are whizzing through, then take acraven’s advice and spend it in Durmitor National Park on the day you leave Dubrovnik. I stayed in an Etno village (cabin) above Piva River Canyon and Mr. É has a great hotel recommendation for the Tara River Canyon - just opposite sides of the park. You should have a half day to drive some of the loop or hike. (Mr. É’s recommendation, which I don’t remember, might be better.)

Just remember, it’s not possible to see everything that deserves to be seen. Edit: I was writing at the same time as Mr. É. He has a point worth considering.

Oh, and I always get a small car. It’s usually only me, one suitcase, and a backpack. And roads are narrow.

Mr E - I appreciate you and your insight! its tough since your experience for Plitvice sounds less than ideal. We'd be eyeing about 4hrs (i.e. 1-5pm) since we'd have to get up in ljublana, make it to Zagreb, get a new rental car, and then drive to Plitvice.

Split you've got me a little worried about as well with the college children...definitely not our jam.

You've got us sold on Montenegro for sure. Is there one specific hike or part you'd highly recommend outside of the obvious Bay of Kotor?

It sounds like cars can make things more inconvenient within Croatia itself?

Texas Travel Mom - again, your insight is invaluable! I thank you so much!

My wife is pretty set on Plitvice, though I could be swayed either way (and would be fine subbing Krka for it). we'd be eyeing getting there around 1pm and staying 3-4 hrs, if that is even worthy, before heading off to Split. A LOT of travel that day (early bus at 8am to Zagreb, then 2+ hr drive to Plitvice, then the drive to Split), and I just worry that will be downright exhausting.

Having done some more research, there's a good amount of GoT things in both Dubrovnik and Split, so you were spot on! A good mix of both.

Yall have sold me on Montenegro to the point where 3 nights is for sure what we'd be looking to do there - which is wild, since I never would have expected it to show up like that. I'm all ears for that BnB you found if the location is prime and its quiet, if youre willing to share. The monastery looks amazing too.

We adapted the plan to this - let me know thoughts on if this is doable - wife thinks its better to drive split to Kotor in one shot and return to Dubrovnik after, so we dont lose part of a day getting back to Dubrovnik for the flight.

4 nights Ljublana (first is the night we arrive from the overnight flight, so lost day)
3 nights in Split (night #1 is after Plitvice, so that long travel day, 2 'chill' nights)
3 nights in Montenegro (where, tbd)
3 nights in Dubrovnik (where we fly to LHR)

.Does this sound good or am I ridiculous for even thinking this is doable?

acraven - I am learning this the hard way, fast :(

You can do this. But since you asked , here are a few thoughts.

Take public transportation from Ljubljana to Zagreb and rent your car from there and drive on to Plitvice..

Give Plitvice one of your nights, if it’s important. Be there early and THEN drive to Split. You really don’t want to be doing all that driving in the dark.

If you drive from Split to Montenegro, you have a 5 hour drive, plus stops, plus border crossings (probably two). I would still take the inland route, not the coastal route this direction. It will be a long day. With 3 nights in Montenegro, you can either:

Make a mountain stop for one night, sightseeing the next morning (I stayed here but it’s definitely not for everyone https://maps.app.goo.gl/pxscwFGKUezzT7EM7?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy); driving on toward Lake Skadar in the afternoon stopping at Ostrog Monastery and Restaurant Sokolone along the way; spend 2 nights with one full day near Skadar; drive back to Dubrovnik along the coast the final day, with stops along the way, drop your car at the airport and take the bus on in to Dubrovnik.
OR
Drive straight from Split to near Skadar and spend 2 nights; then spend one night along the coast as you drive toward Dubrovnik.

Here is where I stayed and it was delightful (and inexpensive). https://www.booking.com/Share-apIfab5
They can arrange a driver and guide for your full day if you want - I went to Skadar Lake for a boat ride, then two wineries. One stunning amazing place was up in the mountains by the lake where there is no possible way I could or would drive. No sane person should. I will go back. But you can do Skadar Lake on your own if you decide to.

Along the coast (I am not even mentioning the places you don’t have time for) a lot of people like to stay in Kotor. Check to see if a cruise ship will be in town. I did not stay in Budva, but I really liked it. I stayed in Perast, which is pure magic if you aren’t looking for museums or beaches. I took the 9-12am Blue Cave boat ride with stops to swim in crystal clear waters. Parking is hard. I didn’t make it to Herceg Novi.

It will be a great trip!

My 2015 visit to Plitvice was worse than Mr. E's. I arrived by bus from Zagreb around 10 AM and spent an hour standing in the ticket line. (You can now buy tickets online.) I had no time at all when I wasn't part of a packed mob. I had not seen online information about the crowding in the park prior to that trip, so I was expecting what I had encountered on my first two visits, which were thirty or more years ago, back when Croatia was just part of Yugoslavia. The park was fabulous then, no matter what time you arrived.

Make sure your wife has seen the worst of the pictures you can find online from Plitvice (Google "crowds Plitvice Lakes"), and point out that those photos are not necessarily recent ones. The park will be busier next year than those photos show, and some of the pictures may have been taken in the winter.

You plan to rent a car (which I have never done), so you have lots of scenic options in Croatia and Montenegro. The Plitvice stop seems as if it will make for an exhausting day, and I can promise you that you won't be seeing the park at its best. If you were not driving long after leaving the park and could plan to see it between, say, 3PM and 7PM, you'd have a better experience, but that doesn't seem practical with your current itinerary.

There are too many wonderful places in Europe to allow us to see all that we want to see on any given trip. I've spent 4-1/2 months in France since 2017, and I've spent zero time in Paris during that time except to change trains. There hasn't been time to see Paris as I want to, at a leisurely pace.

It sounds like cars can make things more inconvenient within Croatia
itself?

Public transportation in Croatia has a lot to be desired. Moving around by car is might be the most efficient, especially if you are short on time.

TexasTravelMom rents cars and drives herself all over Europe. That works for her. I prefer to let someone else do the driving so i can relax and look at the window and not get frustrated and lost. Both work.

If you drive yourself, you need to return the car where you got it or pay many, many, many hundereds of dollars in drop fees, so now the car dictates your route.

The car does no good for you when you are in a city so now you are payng to have an unused car and paying 20 to 50 euro a day to park it. Among the places where hiring a driver might be economical is much of Eastern Europe. A driver with a car here might not cost more then just renting a car in Austria. So is renting cheaper than hiring? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

4 nights Ljublana (first is the night we arrive from the overnight flight, so lost day)
3 nights in Split (night #1 is after Plitvice, so that long travel day, 2 'chill' nights)
3 nights in Montenegro (where, tbd)
3 nights in Dubrovnik (where we fly to LHR)

Have you mapped out the drive times? I am not sure if you actually have time for everything that is still on your list, but it is just so hard to make decision in this area--too much to enjoy, too little time.

Just for grins... https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/transportation/beware-of-mack-tire-damage-scam-and-unsafe-cars

Following the great observations and thought-progress on this thread, the eternal “so much to see and so little time” that hits all travelers becomes apparent. It’s the tension in every itinerary.
I totally agree with TexasTravelMom’s observations.
If you drop the Slovenian rental car off in Ljubljana, train to Zagreb and pick up the Croatian car rental, I would drive to Plitvice Lakes National Park and overnight at the Hotel Jezero or one of the other two other lodgings inside the National Park. Read the thread “Overnight in Plitvice Park” near this one to understand why it’s critical to do this if you want to actually ENJOY your visit to Plitvice. Watch a YouTube video or two so you can see for yourself how daytripping with the throngs to Plitvice Lakes NP is not a fun experience— it’s more like visiting Yosemite National Park on the Fourth of July.
From Plitvice Lakes NP, it’s a 3-hour drive to Split where Diocletian’s Palace is THE reason to visit Split.
With a rental car, it will be difficult and/or expensive to park in Split, I’m not sure I would try to stay 3 nights in Split with a car. Split is Croatia’s second largest city and It’s not easy to get in and out of the city center with a car. Moreover, you won’t need one while you’re there. (The intercity bus station closest to Diocletian’s Palace is a 15-minute walk from Diocletian’s Palace).
SIBENIK, an ancient coastal town distinguished by the fact it is one of only 5 cities worldwide that have 2 UNESCO World Heritage Sites. 60 minutes from Split, and a 30-minute drive from KRKA National Park. SIBENIK might make a more practical base with a car even if you need to park the car outside of the medieval city center. SIBENIK was the first city in the world to have electric streetlights back in 1895—thanks to one of its residents, Nikola Tesla.

If you overnight one night in Plitvice National Park, you could then stay two nights in Sibenik rather than Split. You could daytrip to Split on the second day you’re in Sibenik.

From Sibenik, Dubrovnik is a 3.5-hour drive. Sibenik to Kotor is a 5-hour drive.
Be careful not to add too many destinations and countries to your plan because every time you cross an international border there are going to be driving delays as officials peruse all the passport and rental car paperwork—not just of your vehicle— but of all the cars ahead of you in line at the border. This will occur again when you are departing the country you have entered. ( I live near an international border and if the guy in the rental car ahead of you doesn’t have his paperwork in order— you get delayed even more).

In keeping with an Anniversary trip, you want to be able to relax and enjoy— not just constantly having to look at the clock to be sure you’re on time. That’s what we do at the office. Sometimes while traveling—you want to be able to forget about time.

Day 1 Arrive Ljubljana (Night 1)
2 See Ljubljana (N2)
3 Wake early and head for Plitvice, then on to Split (N3)
4 Split (N4)
5 Head to Dubrovnik mid-day (N5)
6 Dubrovnik (N6)
7 Dubrovnik (N7)
8 Morning to Herceg Novi, then Perast spend day with the islands tours and town tour (N8)
9 Perast to Kotor (2 hours) to Restoran Zora (1 hour) for lunch then on to Stari Bar (2 hours) and to Ulcinj (skip Cetinje) This is 3.5 hours of road time but includes one of the most scenic roads you will travel. (N9)
10 Ulcinj (N10)
11 Ulcinj to Shkodër (N11)
12 Shkodër (N12)
13 I am one day / night short, so put it anywhere that interests you.
14 Drive to Podgorica or Tivat for the flight onward or home.

A change to this would be to replace the costal route with one up through the high country. So
Day 9 Perast to Kotor (2 hours) to Restoran Zora (1 hour) for lunch then on to Ostrog Monastery - Hotel Sokolov (Night 9)
10 Drive up to Tara River Canyon - MB Motel Tara (N10)
11 Drive to Shkodër (N11)

This only works with independent transportation. If you wait on buses you will not have the time you need. If you rent a car you will have to return to where you rented it, which means a bunch of back tracking. The transportation might be a tad pricy in Croatia, but will be much more affordable in Montenegro. To be honest, buy the time you rent a car, gas, parking, tolls; hiring may not cost much more.

This person can do the planning for you for a pretty reasonable fee last time I checked. Dijana Krkotic, Guide & Tour Designer, Doclea Travel, +382 69 277 749, [email protected], www.docleatravel.com

Mr E— You must have missed the part where the OP said they want to visit Slovenia and include Ljubljana, the Julian Alps and the Karst caves for 3-4 days at the start of their trip.

Nope, I didn't.

I would save Slovenia to put with a trip to Italy, Switzerland and Austria.

But if you really, really wanted to do it this trip, take a day our of Dubrovnik and drive the length of Montenegro without stopping to pick up aontehr day. It would be a shame to go to Slovenia and not have time to see it, then go to Croatia and not have time to see it, and go to Montenegro and not have time to see it. So i pulled out slovenia and its still a fast trip but you get to touch on a lot.

We didn't spend any real time in Rijeka, but we got off at the train station and walked with our bags maybe half a mile to the car rental place on the harbor. We got a nice little brand new volkswagon of some type with a wifi hotspot that came in very handy. We let them know in advance that we planned to drive in Bosnia and Montenegro, and they had the corrected paperwork ready. We did have an international drivers permit, obtained at AAA in the US, and as I recall, that was also checked at the borders.

We had had a long day and just headed to Rovinj where we arrived just as it was getting dark.

Since Pltivice and Split are on your must-dos, do them the best way possible!

For Plitvice, we left Rovinj one morning and spent most of a day driving there, then we headed into the park in the mid-afternoon. We stayed at a B&B that was near some apartments that looked like housing for people working at the park. We could walk through the woods to get to the entrance. We spent a few hours in the park that afternoon. At some point we had it mostly to ourselves. We got up early the next morning, had breakfast and walked back over to spend the morning in the areas nearer the parking lots and by noon we cleared out because it was swamped. We then drove to Split. If I were to go back, I would do exactly the same thing again. Do not go between 12-3 if you don't want to experience trail grid-lock.

In Split we splurged and stayed within the walls at the Hotel Vestibule Palace. Lovely deluxe hotel, they will park your rental car for the duration if you don't want the hassle of returning it and renting another. We experienced no excessive noise or craziness (our trip was in May). During one day we did a bike ride all over on a tour. We also visited a museum of Roman ruins. Anyway, the splurge was worth it!