Cash vs. CC

Well, here in North Idaho there has always been a "cash" price at the gas pumps and a different price if you use a CC. I have not seen any instance around here of other places charging for CC use.

Where were your instances located?

Most of the restaurant's we frequent in Northern Minnesota charge a fee when you don't use cash. I wish they would consider all their costs, including fair wages, and charge us accordingly. I loved dining in Norway where we didn't tip, but the employees were paid by the employer.

We wait until we arrive in any country to pickup a little cash from bank ATM's. We avoid ATM's that are Travelex, American Express or other non-bank ATM's because of their high carrying charges. And we get by usually on relatively little cash.

We put everything on a credit card because they come with rights that you don't get with any ATM card.

Don't sweat getting hit with a 3% up charge on a credit card. If you obtained cash, you'd be getting 3% less than face value anyway.

Pam, my thought exactly. Started with the 1973 oil embargo just as credit cards were getting common usage. We lived “out in the country” in LaCenter WA then and worked in Portland.

Not certain but I think in Europe local card fees charged vendors are too low for 2-tier pricing to ever be a thing. US cards have much higher fees, up to 3% or more. It’s the high fees that allow for all those credit card bennies.

I am also carrying cash again to pay for all the restaurants with the 2 tier pricing. Something I didn’t think would happen.

If you obtained cash, you'd be getting 3% less than face value anyway.

Wrong!

I use my Wells Fargo debit card at European ATMs and pay $5 for an almost $500 withdrawal (~1%) or my credit union debit card which charges 1%. If I wanted to change brokers or banks (I don't) I could get 0% ATM fees.

I think Chase charges 3%. I dropped them years ago, partially because of their ATM fees.

Several sources give me credit cards with 0% fees in Europe, but I only use them at major stores where I'm going to shop regardless. For most of my expenses, in particular accommodations, I've found that the smaller, family run establishments I prefer anyway are always a lot less expensive to start with than the places that accept credit cards. I save by paying cash, even if it does cost me 1% at the ATM.

I've seen no restaurant in the US that gives a discount for cash or charges a premium for card usage, but if I ever do find one, they will get my business. I hate that I have to pay more because other people are using their credit cards.

This might not apply so much to Rick Steves fans or European travelers in general, but I just saw that Yahoo Finance estimates that half of all Americans do not have the money to pay off their credit cards monthly. I have to wonder how many of the people so piously bragging that they use their credit cards for everything can't really afford their travel.

My examples were in SC.

Yes, gas stations have been charging different prices for cash vs cc for years. And some even offer a lower than cash price if you get one of their pre-paid cards.

I guess I'm glad they give me a choice instead of automatically adding the 3% to everyone's bill. But I've wondered about the places where the waiter shows up with the cc machine at the table and he handles the machine instead of handing it to the customer. Are the patrons informed?

Just struck me as funny that we have the "go cashless" then the vendors discourage it with the up-charge for using a CC.

I still use both depending on the situation.

For many, many years, when dealing with locally owned restuarants, repair shops, retail shops, and such, we have made it a point to pay in cash (or check) so they didn't lose a percentage to the card companies. And we'll continue to do so. If presented with a situation in which can get a lower price for paying cash, we'll still do it as the card companies are already awash in cash. Of course, there are times when one has to use a card such as airline tickets, cruise tickets, hotels and such. In those cases, it is to our advantage to use a card despite any built in fees.

In the immediate SF Bay Area are establishments that are cashless. Off hand, I know of 2 restaurants having that policy.

In Vienna and Frankfurt I stayed in 2 hotels with that policy. Both asked if that was all right. Admittedly, that question did surprise me. I thought if you don't want me to pay in cash, fair enough, ie, I'll hang on to my cash for another place.

Conversely, numerous restaurants , eateries in SF are cash only, lots of Asian, especially Chinese, and Latin-American eateries, or if the cc is accepted, the amount has to exceed $15 or $25. If you go to the various Farmers' Markets in SF, you'll see both operating, cashless vendors and "cash only" vendors along those allowing both types of payment.

This trip using the cc in France was universal, accepted everywhere, from SNCF ticket machines to coffee / snack machines, grocery stores, etc, etc. Super easy, convenient in France if you decide to choose that instead of paying in cash, just whip out the cc.

Fred, that was our experience as well, on our recent trip. Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, and France. We started with 150 euro left from a previous trip and went home with 110. If it weren't for parking meters, toilets and a tip here and there, I don't recall ever using cash.

I thought the cash discount for gas was on the West Coast only— I haven’t run across it anywhere else.

Most of the restaurant's we frequent in Northern Minnesota charge a fee when you don't use cash.

I run across it in Southern MN as well, so I carry cash now.

@ jules....What surprised me at the WC was that you tap your cc allowing you to go through the turnstile. Most of the time I had the necessary coin to insert but I did take advantage of that "contactless" option, saw that in Vienna and Paris train stations.

I thought the cash discount for gas was on the West Coast only...

Although not all stations offer it, the practice has been fairly widespread in southern states for a number of years.

I thought the cash discount for gas was on the West Coast only— I haven’t run across it anywhere else.

It's pretty common around us in Itasca County, and we see the option at stations in both the Dakotas.

We get a good discount using cash when filling our propane tanks, too.

In 18 days in Norway, we used only cards. We never got cash.

I ran into CC tap toilets in the Netherlands, especially at the train stations.

As I recall, discounts for cash were only allowed in all US states after the Dodd-Frank Act of 2011. Before that, the CC companies prohibited it under their agreements with retailers.

As a curmudgeon, I still prefer cash for small transactions, and have had too many times when computers were down or Apple Pay/Tap just didn't work here at home. I dont look forward to a cashless world.

I have to wonder how many of the people so piously bragging that they use their credit cards for everything can't really afford their travel.

Only the self-righteous would hold those thoughts.
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These discussions continue to be nonsensical to me. On my most recent trip to Europe I incurred around $5,000 in expenses while there. Ain't no way in H that I'm going to continuously run around looking for ATMs to spit out that amount of cash over the course of my trip - even IF every entity charged a 3% premium to use a CC, that would ONLY add an additional $150 to my trip - my time in Europe is worth way more that.
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As for being at home, here in Canada, I have yet to encounter any entity trying to upcharge me to use a CC.

Payment rules and costs are pretty much the reverse principle in the USA than they typically are in Europe. High usage fees in the USA are what pays for the hundreds of thousands of points or whatever that are thrown around like confetti for credit card sign ups. Across Europe they are in the main tightly constrained.

As an example, in the UK surcharges are banned by law for:

• consumer credit cards, debit cards or charge cards
• similar payment methods that are not card-based (for example, mobile phone-based payment methods)
• electronic payment services (for example, PayPal)

The business can surcharge for other payment methods such as cash or cheques but only to the extent of the processing cost.

They could also surcharge business cards and those from overseas although I can't remember ever seeing the latter in practice.

I ran into CC tap toilets in the Netherlands, especially at the train stations.

We used our cards at WCs near the waterfront at Geiranger and at Vigeland Sculpture Park in Oslo. Neither place had a cash option.

. I have to wonder how many of the people so piously bragging that they use their credit cards for everything can't really afford their travel.

We used our cards (0 % Foreign Transaction fee) for everything in Norway for many reasons, including: That is what seemed to be preferred, cash is dirty and takes a little more management that a single card, it made it easy to detail our trip costs when we got home, and we get rewards. The CC bill gets paid in full at the end of the trip, so no, that's not why we use our credit cards;)

I struggle to have enough cash for admission into our grandchildren's numerous sporting events and still have enough left over to buy a bag a popcorn:)

Rick Steves has discount for using cash or check for tour payments.

Gas stations in Metro Detroit have cash and credit prices.

"I have to wonder how many of the people so piously bragging that they use their credit cards for everything can't really afford their travel."

"Only the self-righteous would hold those thoughts."

@Periscope, I completely agree with you. What an appalling statement about pious bragging.

I wanted to say, referring back to the original question, that I find that this varies by country. The majority of my recent travels have been in countries where I frequently found signs that said, "card only" and toilets were indeed paid for by card. (UK, Norway) Then I went to Germany where cash remains king for small transactions and the signs said, "cash only." I scrambled to the nearest ATM!

I would not bother with much cash in UK or Norway, but I'd make sure I had some in Germany.

I think the smart traveler keeps cash in hand somewhat low and has a debit card/account that allows for fee free withdrawals from ATMS as the need arises.

PS Regarding Rick Steves discount. I have found that the cash back reward that I get from my credit card always exceeds the amount of discount offered, so I pay with a credit card.

We’re visiting in Washington State now, and our recent stop at a fast-food taco restaurant charges the extra for using a credit card.

For Europe, it definitely was handy using Apple Pay for transactions. But, I tried to pay cash at any of the smaller restaurants, so they weren’t losing money from the credit card percentage. One small shop in The Netherlands only accepted payment by credit card when I stopped in for coffee.

I always bring some Euros, so I have options.

I’ve really not seen cash discounts for gas anywhere but the West Coast although I don’t frequent the South. I have driven the interstates across both Dakotas and not seen it there either, but don’t doubt it’s there. I believe California is the only state with cash only gas stations, I saw a 90¢/gallon difference in June east of Fresno, between a cash only place on one side of the street and a credit card place across, an 18% savings for cash payment.

May be of interest https://m.startribune.com/small-businesses-shoppers-grapple-conundrum-credit-card-swipe-fee-visa-mastercard-amex-discover-bank/600311737/

High usage fees in the USA are what pays for the hundreds of thousands of points or whatever that are thrown around like confetti for credit card sign ups.

The minimum 1-1/2% cash rebates cards give is probably the bigger driver of fees.

Bragging (but not piously): I used one sign up bonus ($99 annual fee) to get about $3500 in Delta flights.

As another northern Minnesotan, I have not seen any gas stations offer cash discounts. But then I usually just get all my gas at Costco. 😊

I recently took my grandkids to Perkins for breakfast and was startled to find that my bill had increased by 3% because I paid with a credit card. I was more annoyed by the fact that I hadn’t been told ahead of time and it was not listed on the menu anyplace. So I probably will not be coming back to Perkins.

I’m not trying to sound righteous, either, but I do not like paying with cash. I think the last time I had cash on me was probably three or four months ago. I always pay with credit cards. Of course, I also always pay them off each month But it is annoying when I find that I have to pay more because the merchants have provided me with a convenience.

That said, I do appreciate it if I am offered a decent discount for paying in cash (or with a check). I suppose it depends on the wording and the discount. For example, I was recently told what the price would be for a dental procedure, but they added in a 10% discount if I paid in cash. This would be worth it.

I do find it interesting that two of the merchants I use frequently; Target and Amazon, actually give me a 5% discount for using their card. Granted, Amazon is online, but still.

The cash discount for petrol purchases is found here in Texas also. It varies from station to station and you might find your favorite brand with zero discount or fee and then go down the road a couple blocks and get as much as 5% off for cash. It can become very confusing! I buy most of my gas at the supermarkets and get a considerable discount anyway (up to $1 off per gallon if I have bought enough groceries that month).

I have not found cash discounts for restaurant purchases anywhere except at one hole in the wall place near my house that gives a full 15% discount. Amazing how much cash flow that generates for the business. I have not seen any place requiring a surcharge for paying with a credit card. (Maybe I just don't get out all that much :-)

Visa especially doesn't like locations that charge extra for credit transactions. They are actively fighting that in the USA. We will just have to see how it turns out.

Visa especially doesn't like locations that charge extra for credit transactions. They are actively fighting that in the USA.

I've watched the evolution of the credit card business since the 1960s. Of course they are fighting it. If they can stop places from giving cash discounts, or stop them adding a surcharge, the credit card fee charged to the merchant will just be added to the price of whatever is being purchased. The credit card companies will then make even more money.

Wee go to Iceland often and they are mostly cashless, but not entirely. We still have krona from a trip several years ago when family gave us all some for Christmas. It is funny because most everything, even just a single. cup of coffee is usually paid for with a card. That includes bathrooms, but then you will find one that is cash only and sometimes it is just a cardboard box. One time is was cash only but a turnstile. Then at one of the hot pots, it was cash only and a lady would come down the hill to make sure that everyone had paid. So while most of the time cards are great, sometimes you need actual cash.

There are several businesses that we use here in Tucson, Arizona that give a discount for using cash. Two I can think of off the top of my head: an auto repair shop and a roofing company both give a 10% discount for cash. And just the other day, a restaurant we went to had something on the check that said there would be a 3% discount for using cash.

When I was in Germany last month, I was surprised at how many times I ran into a cash only establishment. This may be par for the course for Germany, but I didn't notice it in England, Norway or Paris (although in some smaller stores, there was a minimum purchase requirement to use a CC).

I just remembered a wonderful restaurant in Salzburg that was cash only. We were there last December and thankfully I had read that before we went. They had an ATM in the entrance of the building, even before you went downstairs to the restaurant.

https://www.lawpay.com/about/blog/credit-card-surcharge-rules/

The above link explains the legality of credit card surcharging which started in about 2013 and is now permitted in 48 states.

As a result of a class action suit, as of November 2022, credit card surcharging is now legal in Canada, except in Quebec. Telus implemented a 1.5% surcharge on credit card payments of its phone bills starting at the end of 2022 but back down in June 2023 when consumers complained.

I use a no-fee credit card which gives a 2% discount on three categories of spending including restaurants, groceries and gasoline. At least, this will mitigate the effects of any future surcharging. Before they terminated the program, I used to earn a lot of airmiles on a Mastercard credit card. Nothing is free. Somebody is paying.