Webmasters, can you please explain why threads in Beyond Europe are deleted (e. g. my one a few days ago) or closed when the topic is about issues with traveling to the USA? I miss communication regarding this behavior.
There is no intention to violate any CGs but has a direct impact to load factors of flights and prices. I am asking this way because likely some forum members are interested to understand.
Thank you in advance.
Read articles on individuals being barred from entry to the US if they have info criticizing Trump on phones.
The Webmaster can certainly correct me if necessary, but I would expect the information you mention tends to lead to a lot of shouting type comments which quickly degenerates. And then the whack-a-mole on the comments is a lot of work, causes more people to be pissed off, and quickly turns into not-worth-it => delete the post.
But if I was contemplating coming to the US I'd certainly like the information.
Read articles on individuals being barred from entry to the US if they have info criticizing Trump on phones.
Are you referring to the French researcher who was in possession of confidential information on his phone from the Los Alamos National Laboratory—in violation of a non-disclosure agreement—something he admitted to taking without permission and attempted to conceal?
Because nothing remotely negative can be shared here, even if factual. Even a harmless “what do you dislike about the forum” post was deleted, where people were engaging in some silly venting.
I would rather ignore posts I don’t like rather than have the thought police, but that’s the MO.
It’ll kill the forum eventually.
It’s probably because threads like that tend to derail.
"It’ll kill the forum eventually. "
I disagree. I believe this is one of the few ways it can survive in these times.
And I believe "silly venting" can be toxic, or "venting" (in public) period, or...
I'd usually prefer this sort of thing to be private, but MarkK isn't the only one, so it's time for a PSA-style post.
First, RobertH is 100% spot on. Everyone read his first reply (post #3).
Second, there is a theme among some people in this forum that when we remove a post, it's because of the content or opinions shared. To make this clear, we do not moderate content unless it violates guidelines (which manage behavior, not content), goes down a political path (because it always leads to arguments = guideline violations), or if the information could lead to physical harm (e.g. any post giving medical advice which needs to come from your doctor). We are very consistent with this approach.
Third, I do apologize to MarkK and others who have found that their posts or threads have disappeared. No one likes that, especially when it's due to others' actions. "There is no intention to violate any CGs." We very much recognize that the OP and some other replies are in bounds in these cases. However, we have also been consistent that when a thread has gone off the rails, we will not spend more than a few minutes to cull a post or two or make a few edits to get it back in line. If it's off the rails, we will remove the thread. This is always how this has been. We do not have time to methodically go over each post to remove the vein that has taken a discussion along it's political path etc. Furthermore, methodical edits causes more work for moderators because it usually leads to complaints about what was edited and requests for changes, usually because they didn't understand the issue causing us to take time to explain what's happening in the thread. A single thread can literally take hours to handle. Just no. To all, do not underestimate the time it takes to deal with a thread that has gone off the rails.
Given what's going on in the world right now, I'd say we're doing a lot to retain threads for those that genuinely have tough questions regarding uncertainty around travel right now. If you're finding that a thread has been locked, it's because we already did spend time cleaning out that thread, and we're locking it to retain the very information that you're hoping we can have in this forum. I know that all you're seeing is a locked thread and it looks like there isn't a problem there. So, I understand when there is an assumption that the issue is the content because that's all that's left. Instead, please assume that the problem has been removed, what's left is acceptable (OK, we're not perfect), and it's closed to prevent further issues (because even though the problem has been removed, it frequently doesn't prevent those people involved from bringing it back up unless we lock it).
Finally, the current environment is making this forum very challenging to manage right now. We don't typically allow for politics in this forum, but we've always allowed mention of something political when it directly affects travel. Well, right now we have an intersection of political actions causing uncertainty in travel. We expect people to bring up these topics as people need answers and advice, and I especially want concerns to be reassured that, widely speaking, today's news will not significantly impact your travels and people should continue to do so. We also expect replies to such questions to focus on the travel aspect. Many replies are great, but too many inject their own political commentary or give outright political statements. We as a community need to be more vigilant about keeping politics out of our posts. I'm trying not to have a crazy heavy hand, but even the light references to show which side of the political divide you are on as you answer the question is serving to sew division between you and other forum members. I urge everyone to focus hard on travel and edit themselves. We will do our best to keep division out of our forum. That's what makes this a helpful place for all.
"nothing remotely negative can be shared here, even if factual. Even a harmless 'what do you dislike about the forum' post was deleted, where people were engaging in some silly venting."
That is a gross mischaracterization of why that post was removed. We have accepted criticism of this forum many times over. I'd like to explain it to you but moderation with individuals is private. Please assume best intentions when it comes to moderation. You are not privy to all the details.
And I hope that you can take my actions in this very post as proof. I accept your criticism of this forum based on what you've perceived, and I also hope you can understand that you've missed why it was removed. Again, we do not moderate content. Moderation addresses behavior.
Thanks to MarkK for sparking the discussion and great thanks to Andrew for answering the question clearly and concisely.
Fairness is a great virtue. Patience is another.
I don't know about concisely, ;) but thanks Nigel.
I don't envy the webmaster.
Wait a second. I do envy the webmaster. Working for Rick Steves? How cool is that?
Appreciate the info... and the tone.
I certainly appreciate that the job of the Webmaster is a difficult one, and often involves walking a fine line. And I can understand the need to delete or lock some of these threads. OTOH, I've found the posts by some of the forum members to be very, shall we say, illuminating.
You are still a prince Andrew. G-d Bless
Not Prince Andrew though, thankfully.
Reading this and other threads related to how/if politics is affecting international travel brought this to mind.
https://www.medical-jokes.com/all-the-parts-of-the-body-argued-over-who-would-be-boss/
Making no political comment but just pointing out, in what is intended to be a humorous way, that logic does not necessarily prevail in all cases.
Or it may just reflect the quirky trivia my brain retains and spits out at random moments.
"...logic does not necessarily prevail in all cases"
This is human beings we're talking about, not even close. One of my favorites is "Man is not a rational animal but a rationalizing one".
(though being a "Man" never seemed necessary for the skill)
Not Prince Andrew though, thankfully.
Another Freudian slip... dang!
It's a joke ........ son!
If you have to tell someone that something is funny, is it?
There appears to ample evidence that policy and policing practices
have changed in the US.
I have seen no evidence. So far, each of the dramatic instances regarding individuals entering the US on visas, visa wavers or green cards in the news has been shown to have been incomplete reporting.
I don't love this guy either, but I don't deny truth for either side.
"If you have to tell someone that something is funny, is it?"
That was part of Foghorn Leghorn's thing. Constantly telling (whoever) that it's a joke as he thumps their head.
RobertH some learn to relax with age.
I hope to do so.
Thanks to Webmasters for taking the time to explain. Very much appreciated.
And again I apologize for asking in a thread - I explained already why.
I hope everybody got that behavior is the thing. Although behavior is differently interpreted in different cultures. I like to mention that because as German I am very aware of legal limits in this context because in chapter 14 of German crime law we have 12 paragraphs caring for insults and verbal offenses (§ 185 ff StGB). These exist long before Internet was used and in parallel together with the article 5 of German constitution which guarantees free speech. So, finally we all are very differently socialized - not only by country. Germans are known for communicating open, and in Germany people from Berlin are considered for being very much more open in communication.
We discussed censorship in another exchange and even fully respecting the platform ownership and guidelines there is still intellectual property right - and I do not know how far this is violated by one-sided and not clearly identifiable (from a reader perspective) text editing. I do not want to start a discussion here about it but want to give it as very polite notice to the webmasters for legal risk checking.
Thanks again.
MarkK: I would hope, and assume to be true, that the RS organization appreciates all of us, as you put it, "fully respecting the platform ownership and guidelines" .
Andrew, we have had our "discussions" over the years. Always private and with no exception to the greatest respect and kindness of tone.... well there was one ... but heck, i deserved it. Anyway ..... I have always seen your edits and deletes as well considered well intentioned and proper .... even if I didn’t always agree. But, my agreement isnt part of it. Its Rick's toy and he gets to play with it in any way he sees ftt. Given all the forces that act on this sort of endeavor I would say he has done an excellent job ..... beginning with hiring you and giving you a hefty raise this month (I am working it for you Andrew).
