We are considering a trip to the US next year but are very worried about the extreme gun violence and mass shootings we see on the news. Which places are the safest to visit now?
In the past we have visited New York, Chicago, New Orleans, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Seattle. We felt unsafe in San Francisco and Los Angeles. In SF we saw a couple of street muggings and in LA we got followed by drug dealers. Our last visit was to NY in 2009.
Am I watching different news here in Germany? And must say in none of the mentioned US cities I've visited I ever felt unsafe. Or let's say no other feelings like in my hometown Munich.
I do not know where you comming from but in every big city always something could happen. I guess would be better to visit the countryside?
Munich is safe-let's not compare it to US cities.
'
I have family in CA and I will say that sadly SF has seen better days. It's a beautiful city marred by the homeless using the streets as their bathrooms. Unfortunately, LA is the same. Having said that, you must be extraordinarily unlucky as I've never seen half those things in all my vacations.
Just going by where you haven't seen cities you haven't seen, I'd say Portland and Washington DC. Portland because you have all the attractions of a city yet are close enough to go on hikes and be out in nature. Washington DC is the nation's capital and my favorite big city because of all the cultural activities plus you are close to NYC and other East Coast cities. Or visit a national park like Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon.
I've live in or around big cities all my life and have never seen a shooting or a gun except on police. Come an enjoy.
I live here. I would not recommend you come. We have out-of-control, gun violence right now. And it’s sad
I’m sorry, but our children go to school and have active shooter drills. I have clients in France who are shocked to discover that every workplace in the United States seems to have an active shooter program. And of course just last week at a random club in Colorado Springs, a tourist destination city, people were shot - probably because they were not heterosexual
And as I’m typing, this news tells me that six people were shot and killed at a Walmart last night.
😓
Forget the cities. Visit our National Parks.
I would vote for moving out of the cities as well. Not because of safety, but because if you want to get a sense of what America is really like, it is essential. If you wanted to combine city/country, I’d suggest flying into Denver, Colorado, renting a car and going to Rocky Mountain National Park.
+1 on the suggestion to visit the National Parks. Even if you’re not a hiker/camper you can see some amazing things!
Without getting into the safe/unsafe weeds, it sounds as if you've only visited urban areas in the U.S.? Any particular reasons for that? For instance, are the sorts of things you wish to see and do largely found only in cities?
We have some glorious natural landscapes and interesting archeological sites that people come from all over the world to experience: the Grand Canyon; Utah's "Mighty 5" national parks of Zion, Bryce, Capitol Reef, Canyonlands and Arches; Colorado's Mesa Verde; Canyon de Chelly in Arizona; Acadia N.P. in Maine; Olympic N.P. in Washington, etc. etc. You are not required to be a conditioned hiker enjoy parts of many, although it helps if willing to use your feet a bit versus see them strictly from behind the windshield.
If looking for something more urban, I'll offer up Santa Fe, New Mexico? This is our favorite small American city; it's the oldest capital city in the U.S. (founded 1610), has some wonderful museums, great food, lots of history, attractive historic-center architecture, heaps of terrific art galleries to browse (a walkable 1/2 mile of them on Canyon Road), and a unique Spanish/Mexican + First People (indigenous) flavor. LOTS of color! As well, it's within reach of a plethora of easy day trips; run up to Taos for the day or to Bandelier National Monument, or Tent Rocks, or picturesque El Santuario de Chimayo, or down to Acoma Pueblo and Petroglyph National Monument nearer Albuquerque. We never tire of the region, and never felt unsafe in "The City Different". I highly recommend having a rental car as S.F. weirdly has no taxi service and Uber/Lyft is scarce. Give a shout if interested and I can provide links/more info?
Sadly, one can not guarantee that any place is "safe", and yes, gun violence in the U.S. is rampant. But with that said, your previous trips have focused on large cities that historically have higher crime rates. Without knowing what your interests are, I would suggest you skip the big cities, and visit some of our national parks. A trip to Montana & Wyoming could include Glacier, Yellowstone or Grand Teton. (Whitefish, Montana is small but beautiful) Arizona has some lovely cities as well as the Grand Canyon & Lower Antelope Canyon. Utah is gorgeous and our Mighty Five National Parks are spectacular. Acadia National Park in Maine and a drive up the coast from Portland, Maine is another option. It's particularly beautiful, although more crowded in the fall when the leaves are changing.
Stay out of the big cities and see the real USA. Two great areas to visit - New England and upstate New York, the Rocky Mountains from Arizona/New Mexico up thru Montana/Idaho ( and western Nebraska and the Black Hills of South Dakota ). Lots to choose from and little of the craziness if the big cities
Come and visit Phoenix and Arizona. It’s safe except for a few neighbors that tourists don’t visit. Don’t visit from May 1 to Nov 1 unless you like very hot or plan to go north to Sedona and the Grand Canyon. From Nov 1 to Mid-April there is a lot to do: golf, car shows, museums which are open all year, hiking and more. Here’s a couple links: Arizona, Phoenix, Scottsdale.
You will need to rent a car because safe, reliable public transportation is almost non-existent, plus things to do are very spread out.
Here’s an article worth reading: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world.
I agree with the National Parks. I think my favorite is Acadia in Maine. Also Charleston has lots to do and wonderful food, especially if you like seafood. For the record, I feel safe and do not own a gun, although the school shooter thing was really a concern when I was a high school teacher(I remember looking at the closet between my room and the adjacent room and wondering how many female students I could hide in there while the guys and I remained in the classroom and yes that's how it would work in Bham). I refuse to worry about random unpredictable violence like what just happened in Walmart and I do avoid NYC, NO, CA. My last visit to NYC was in 2019 and I would not go there now, and yes, I do know that Bham and SC have higher murder rates than NYC, but not in areas where I go.
New England is pretty, especially in the fall. It really depends on what you want to do, but maybe go to a mid-sized city rather than a large one. We went to San Antonio for a few days earlier this year and enjoyed ourselves. I can’t speak for all cities but we live near Baltimore and don’t visit it. Like all cities it has its share of issues that the authorities are trying to get a handle on. You could visit Washington DC. There are plenty of safer places in it, especially by the mall and museums area.
My last visit to NYC was in 2019 and I would not go there now,
We were just there again in September and had a great time. Walked all over parts of Manhattan, including a stroll thru Central Park in the rain and a couple of subway rides, and didn't feel unsafe at all. Noticeable police presence. Different strokes, I guess.
It seems like you are unlucky. Having lived my entire life in the US including years in Chicago I have never witnessed a single mugging, much less two on the same trip.
This post sums up my feelings and experience in the US over my lifetime.
Having said that, I spend very little time anymore in most of the "big" cities mentioned here, like Chicago, or NYC. I live in Louisiana, and I spend no time in New Orleans due to concerns about crime that are particularly bad in the areas frequented by tourists. On my last visit to San Francisco about 6 years ago, I decided I had seen enough homeless people to last a lifetime and have not been back...
Others have offered ideas for visiting the US, and I agree in general that you need to get out of the big cities to see the best the country has to offer. Some good ideas here...however be aware that our national parks are "over subscribed" and suffer from severe overcrowding in peak travel periods. Obtaining lodging in or near some of the parks has to be done up to a year in advance, so if you want to see Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon, be aware of this.
Washington DC, nope. My kids lived there and had one high school girl murdered in front of their house, and two people robbed and murdered across the street. LA, nope. My husband was mugged and almost strangled to death when we lived there. Try the small towns, though those could have shootings just like today's Walmart shooting, one of several in suburban or rural areas. National Parks forbid weapons or go to Canada.
Another vote for National Parks.
My particular favorites are Yellowstone and Grand Tetons. I visit both at least once a year for 2 weeks and would be happy to help you develop an itinerary. You don't mention when you are able to travel but both of these parks have the best accessibility in summer, unless you want to do a winter trip for access to Yellowstone via snowcoach or snowmobile. It's almost too late to put something together for this year so I'd recommend winter 2023/2024 if you decide on that. You can, however make arrangements for a summer trip. I always go in early to mid-June for better wildlife, lower crowd volumes and almost no chance of smoke drift from fires either far or near.
There are specifics you'd want to know regarding booking lodging as there are a couple of "sound official" website that are actually 3rd party bookers who charge for reservations and have terrible cancellation policies. Let me know if you need more information on that.
I will say that you may possibly see open carry firearms in Idaho, Wyoming and Montana in a gas station or a store as it's quite common.
AussieNomad, exactly where were you when you witnessed the muggings in SF? As for being followed by drug dealers in LA, I would say you were way off the beaten path. Every place in the world has issues and unsafe parts of town, the thing to do is determine those locales and stay away. Having been to the cities on your list, I would go there again. I would just be aware of my surroundings.
Sigh. I lived right outside of DC and have people visit every year and no one has ever gotten mugged/murdered. Yes, it can happen but I have had people I know n London be happy-slapped and chased by yobs. Doesn't mean I tell people not to come to London, it just means you can be unlucky at times.
I think we can one up each other for eternity. Barcelona bombings, Paris shootings and bombings, Berlin Christmas Market attacks. Fact is stuff happens everywhere. Honestly, the most unsafe I feel is when I get into the car and drive anywhere-the pandemic has made people lose all driving skills and assume they are the kings of the road.
But for the OP, I would definitely pick a National Park though not during the summer-spring and fall are best. We loved Yellowstone and Zion National Park with the rock formations.
And here's one more vote for the scenic views and breathtaking beauty of the National Parks. I can't get enough of them and I've been to many. Pick a section, rent a car and hit the road. If there is one thing the US has got going for it, it's the makings of an incredible and scenic road trip. There are some ideas in this thread that I posted a few months ago asking for road trip ideas that might be helpful. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/beyond-europe/road-trip-suggestions-in-the-us
If you want some city visits, pick some of the smaller and safer ones, although as others have pointed out, most people living or visiting bigger cities never see any violence. But it is there, I know, and if you're nervous about it, you won't have as much fun while looking over your shoulder.
So instead of San Francisco and LA, head to the central coast of California and visit San Luis Obispo and Cambria, and tour the Paso Robles vineyard. It's beautiful country there and easy to love. Other possible destinations are San Diego, CA, Charleston, NC, New Orleans, Salt Lake City (which has the benefit of close proximity to some gorgeous national parks like Arches, Zion, and Bryce Canyon among others).
I too, shake my head at times when I read about the latest mass shooting, but I remember France in 2019 during the yellow jacket protests. I can't count how many news reports I read about people's fears of violence erupting. But these fears and stories were coming from back home. France was perfectly safe. But back to the US, New Orleans is the only place you've listed that I've never been, and I've never felt unsafe in the others. This includes the train ride from San Francisco to Oakland for a baseball game which has some pretty sketchy scenery.
Or, how about Canada? Great cities and national parks here, and strict gun laws.
Bad things and violence happen everywhere, to anyone, at any time. From minor to major, small towns to urban centers. If you want that fear and the fear mongering the news media is cashing in on you to rule your life, you’d never travel anywhere. This is not to say there are not problems- simply that problems are everywhere and can be often unexpected places. There’s no guarantee you’re safe anywhere at any time. Not even your own home.
Dig deeper and make sensible, educated choices beyond the headlines and travel to places you wish to see. I’d avoid war torn areas or areas in known current upheaval or more likely to have violence frequently of course. Some places are on my “maybe at a more stable time” list to be sure. Seek out destinations that are relatively stable, and educate yourself on neighborhoods and areas in general to avoid or to spend time in based on your interests, what you’d like to see, and what you enjoy.
Best wishes and happy travels!
Charleston is in South Carolina not North Carolina.
Probably FOX news which always sensationalizes.
Native Californian who was born when Truman was in office. Now live in Hollywood. Can see the sign from my window. Would I suggest visiting here? No but not because of gun violence but because Hollywood isn’t what people envision. Beverly Hills Rodeo Drive is but NOT Hollywood.
Homelessness is out of control here and why not? If I was homeless I’d head here. Its sunny, organizations provide tents and food, free medical clinics….then again there is the worse corruption in City Hall than ever seen. City of Angels my ( fill in the blank )
As suggested visit Santa Fe or the Great Plains of Nebraska, or the Coast of Maine, or the Florida Everglades, Mt Rushmore in S. Dakota, the Grand Canyon in Arizona or Whitby Island or the Sacramento Delta and then Yosemite.
From the late, great state of California, adieu.
As an American I would go to all the cities you listed and not think twice about gun violence or mass shooting. I would think. museums, festivals, restaurants, walking around. We go to San Francisco all the time, and I have been sketched out (a bad feeling) there no different there than I have in Paris or London, a bad feeling is a bad feeling you can't base it on how people look. How did you know the people in LA were drug dealers and why would they follow you? So LA is huge where did you go exactly?
Lots of posters mentioned the national parks. We have a park RV/Tent/recreation company here called KOA, which has beautiful parks that sometimes have cabins you can rent on the premises, you could look into that option also. I like a good road trip myself, you could pick a region and explore.
I have a feeling this thread will eventually be deleted so I'll try to limit myself.
As long as you avoid churches, schools, gay nightclubs, grocery stores, parades, music festivals, (I'm sure I'm forgetting some), you may be able to avoid a mass shooting. I wish we had done what Australia did after their first mass shooting, alas, it is not happening. I don't even understand what you expect to get out of this question--aside from a touchy discussion, as yes, some of us have been victims of gun violence. Getting shot in a random shooting is still somewhat like avoiding a lightning strike or shark attack, despite the many horrible examples.
What do you like to do, and what do you want to see? The US has more than large cities, and you have done those. The national parks is the obvious answer. If you are less into nature or don't want the long-distance driving they often entail, a tour of the southeast would be something potentially culturally enriching.
OK, let's be realistic.
Yes, the USA has guns in the general population, and yes, there has been an increase in firearms homicides; a 14% increase over the past 5 years. We are on track to have 19,000 homicides this year. That's 5 firearms caused deaths per 100,000 people. In perspective the automotive death rate is 13 per 100,000.
The largest portion of firearms deaths (by a large margin) are suicides, which for some reason never get the headlines homicides do.
The three major States for firearms homicides are Texas, California, and Texas.
The number of tourists killed by firearms homicides in the USA is so small it's not even captured.
Statistically, your far safer west of the Mississippi River (especially if you avoid Texas and California).
In 60 years of traveling I have only peripherally been involved in one criminal act involving firearms in the USA, and I have lived in 8 States in every corner of the country and visited all 50. I have seen two firearms homicides in Europe, both when I lived there over a period of 4 years.
GEN George Patton once said, When you have collected all the facts and fears and made your decision, turn off all your fears and go ahead! I have found that to be good advice.
As a foreigner living in the USA, I may have a more unique perspective.
I think your concerns are valid, and anyone trying to downplay them I think hasn't lived in a society where gun violence and mass shootings aren't an acceptable daily occurrence, just another Wednesday in America so to speak. In the States while attending big events I've gotten used to looking over my shoulder and looking for the nearest exit just in case and you never know when road rage with devolve into a shoot out like in the wild west.
The cities in the USA are also very confusing to me, the bad parts and good parts of town are right next to each other, only separated a single road, like a chess board, as a foreigner it's difficult to understand where the "no go zones" are.
There are a few areas of the US where I feel safe and can relax:
One is Hawaii, I like Kauai the best.
The other is San Diego, a breath of fresh air compared to LA.
Also really like the Navajo Nation, it's a huge Native American reservation but think of it more like a country within a country. Monument Valley is really spectacular, met many Europeans there, even Stephen Fry.
I also love Canada, spent an excellent winter skiing near Banff a few years ago.
...however be aware that our national parks are "over subscribed" and
suffer from severe overcrowding in peak travel periods. Obtaining
lodging in or near some of the parks has to be done up to a year in
advance,
True indeed, and some of them have instituted or piloted timed-entry reservations during the busiest seasons to manage the traffic. Arches, for instance, did that this past year. Others have limitations on where you can drive: the Grand Canyon South Rim requires use of free shuttles most of the year for accessing the overlooks on the West side of the park (if one isn't trekking to them on foot or by bike). Zion Canyon also isn't accessible by private vehicle most of the year; they use free shuttles there too.
Hitting the gates early early plus a willingness to explore off the most-visited trails helps, if at all physically possible.
There can be a big difference between perception and reality.
This second link is a little more political. It's a scary-long link, because it has the NY TImes pay-wall removed. Not stolen, it's a "gifted" article, by a Nobel-winning economist, Paul Krugman titled:
Crime: Red Delusions About Purple Reality
Oct. 24, 2022
The op hasn’t given a clue as to what his interests are; but given the list of past U.S. trips, it seems that big cities are of high interest. If, however, natural wonders are attractive to him, the national parks suggestion is a good one. I don’t think that their sheer variety and their spectacular sights have any equal in a single other country in the world.
That being said, the big cities, N.Y.C., Chicago, L.A., S.F., are the “real” U.S. Does the person who denied that even know what percentage of our population now live in cities? Everyone needs to read the Krugman article attached by one of the posters. Not that facts will change many minds.m
If AussieNomad prefers cities over scenery, maybe they could focus on smaller cities such as Charleston, Savannah, St. Petersburg, Santa Fe, etc. There are dozens and dozens that would be very interesting.
If you do decide to try National Parks for your next trip, then you need to know that many of them have gone to reservation systems to deal with the massive crowding. Plus lodging needs to be booked a year in advance, and you only want to book through the official concessionaire.
Someone suggested Utah's Big Five, which would be a great place to start. Flying in and out of Salt Lake City is easy.
Thanks for all your responses. It's reassuring to know that what we see on the news here in Australia is not necessarily representative of daily life in America.
In the mid 1990s we did a road trip from Los Angeles up to Vancouver (up routes 5 and 101, and back down the coast on highway 1) and visited national parks along the way. We also drove New Orleans to Chicago via St Louis but as we had no money we did it as a repossession "drive away" for a bank and didn't have much time to stop along the way. As I am now disabled and my partner doesn't drive anymore, road trips and national parks are not on the agenda anymore.
In my country, you are more at risk from the critters (snakes, spiders, jellyfish) than the people. We just don't have guns apart from police, military, a very few criminals and farmers. So we are very unused to mass shootings and the ones in the US we see and hear about on our news seem random and unpredictable.
The muggings in SF were near fisherman's wharf and near the corner of Broadway and Columbus (outside city lights bookstore). In LA, I think we got off the bus at the wrong stop going to Venice Beach.
We might just plan to visit the north east and Washington DC. The Whitney, Guggenheim and Met in NY are favourites that we would be happy to visit again, and the Smithsonians in Washington have been on our "to do" list for a long time. If we stay to tourist areas in DC would that we safe?
Pre-COVID friends did a Tauck tour from Boston that went to Martha's Vineyard and Cape Cod and liked it a lot. They said that there were people with walking canes on the tour who managed
We would like to see the Grand Canyon (Hockney's "A Bigger Grand Canyon" is one of my favourite pieces of art ever) and Yellowstone but might need to find a tour that visits these because of my mobility issues and us not driving. I can walk on paved surfaces but not manage hills or rocky trails. In Europe, cobbles are OK on a good day, but distance-wise we are limited to around 3 miles per day before my knees and ankles get too painful.
We have a big trip to Spain and Portugal coming up in Feb-April 2023 and we're looking to do another trip in Sept-Oct 2023. Our last few trips have been to Europe and we are looking for something different.
If you stay in safe areas, big cities are safe as well. Mass shootings are rare events albeit tragic that can happen anywhere but the chances of being victim of one are pretty low.
In NYC I usually stay in midtown (usually between Times Square and the Central Park, near MOMA) but I've stayed also downtown in more distance past, and I always felt safe anywhere in Manhattan, at least anywhere from Central Park and south all the way to the tip of Battery Park. The Harlem area (north of Central Park) seemed a bit seedier, but went there only during the day.
In Chicago I used to go often on business. Always stayed in the River North area (just north of the loop) around Michigan ave, and felt safe.
San Francisco is also pretty safe in the city center if you stay out of the Tenderloin. I recommend staying in the North Beach area (Italian neighborhood) or just north of it around Fishermen's Wharf. That area is traditionally safest in the city center.
In LA I stay in West Hollywood. Beverly Hills just next to it is even better but pricier. I don't stay downtown because it's not too safe.
Seattle is safe anywhere downtown all the way to the Fremont district.
New Orleans is unsafe everywhere, but the French Quarter is well patrolled.
If you visit National Parks and smaller towns, it will be very safe.
However when I visited Australia I was also very worried, not by the gun violence, but by the possibility of being killed by the thousands of venomous animals that inhabit Australia and even of being eaten by a crocodile. Somehow I survived the parks at Whitsunday island at the great barrier reef in NSW and and the Blue Mountains near Sydney but I was sure scared to be killed by some of those scary creatures that populate the continent down under. How do you guys deal with that? Do you carry anti-venom antidote with you all the time?
Roberto, I think thats why they all carry really big knives.
Aussie, to answer some of your questions in your latest post......
"Pre-COVID friends did a Tauck tour from Boston that went to Martha's Vineyard and Cape Cod and liked it a lot. They said that there were people with walking canes on the tour who managed."
This might be a good option for you. My husband and I have thought about taking this exact cruise.
"We might just plan to visit the north east and Washington DC. The Whitney, Guggenheim and Met in NY are favourites that we would be happy to visit again, and the Smithsonians in Washington have been on our "to do" list for a long time. If we stay to tourist areas in DC would that we safe?"
Washington would be a great destination for you. You will not run out of museums to see! If you post another thread topic asking for hotel recommendations in D.C., you'll get lots of answers, I'm sure. This will lead to a discussion of where each hotel is located and how safe that location is. I would think you'll be relatively safe in Washington.
Someone above mentioned Hawaii. Great suggestion.
Boston has public transportation and taxis. Downtown Boston is not in a situation in which one street over is a bad neighborhood. The Boston Harbor has the National Park of islands that can be reached by ferry and water taxi. Boston has art museums, a great anthropology museum at Harvard College (Cambridge), history, good restaurants, Boston Symphony Orchestra, and access to day trips, etc. I am not sure what is going on in the theatre district…just haven’t paid attention. I imagine, like anywhere, some businesses have suffered from Covid and are working on winding up. Boston is still my favorite city in the US, after 46 years of living in and around the city (until last year, but I am still attached by the train…). We have Cape Ann, Cape Cod, Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket. Also, Newport, Rhode Island is less than 2 hours away and is an interesting Revolutionary and Gilded Age historical city to visit with a beautiful coastline. I can think of so much more…
If you could get a multi-day tour to Acadia National Park in Maine from Boston, I would recommend that, I would recommend it as the island is one of my favorite places.
If I were looking at it from your perspective I would feel comfortable in New England. Massachusetts also has stricter gun laws than other parts of the country, but there is no guarantee. People seem to have gone a bit nuts all over the world lately. And the grim reaper will find you when it’s your time no matter where you are. ;)
New York City--I used to live there--It was safer in the 1980's than
it is now there. If you must go, stay out of the subway!! Take the
city buses or a taxi.
Rebecca, we have friends who live in Tribeca and use the subway. We used the subway. We saw many, many commuters taking the subway. In fact, our friends mentioned that they'd tried to catch a cab or an Uber home from dinner in Midtown one night, thinking it would be quicker, and had a lot of trouble getting either to respond.
Are you an Aboriginal Australian? Unfortunately that is a factor in where you should and shouldn't visit in America
I have lived in Chicago my entire life. I am 75 years old. Almost 40 of my years were spent as a city police officer, mostly in the detective division and in homicide. Some say the fear of crime is real. Some say it is hype. Some say that it is localized to certain "bad" areas, and the rest of the city is OK. You make the call:
As of 11/20/2022, there have been 656 Homicides within the city of Chicago this year. There have been 3,282 people shot, 46 of whom are/were under the age of 12. Statistically a person is shot in Chicago every 2 hours and 23 minutes. A person is murdered every 11 hours and 24 minutes. The "Loop" has seen 81 people shot, 20 fatally. The near north side has seen 72 shot, 15 fatally. There have been 1,420 carjackings.
No finger pointing. No politics. Those are the actual numbers.
Decide for yourself
Are you an Aboriginal Australian? Unfortunately that is a factor in where you should and shouldn't visit in America
No, on our last trip to the US a few people thought we were Austrians and addressed us in German.
sure scared to be killed by some of those scary creatures that populate the continent down under. How do you guys deal with that? Do you carry anti-venom antidote with you all the time?
No, we learn what to do if bitten by a snake, spider etc. as kids. Most experienced hikers carry a snake bite bandage. We don't swim in the ocean in jellyfish season and do not swim in inland rivers or estuaries in the northern parts of the country to avoid crocodiles. We make jokes about foreign tourists being crocodile food. We are a bit blasé about sharks as we have excellent surf lifesavers and aerial beach patrols.
I think we will look at visiting the north east of the US, and maybe spend some time in Hawaii to break the long flight from Australia.
Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
Late to the topic here. Husband has spent several months in Australia along with much time in New Zealand working with a winery friend of ours.
We live outside a medium sized city in Oregon (Portland). We have no desire to go into Portland any more but have found great food, wineries and outdoor adventures an hour west. The Oregon Coast down to Northern California is amazing and pretty quiet off season.
On the other hand, we just returned from a week in Texas. Mainly hill country. The nicest people you would ever want to meet.
We spend time on the Oregon Coast and central Oregon. We just don't want to spend time in big cities.
But a trip to the San Juan Islands and up to Vancouver would be a great trip.
"We would like to see the Grand Canyon (Hockney's "A Bigger Grand Canyon" is one of my favourite pieces of art ever) and Yellowstone but might need to find a tour that visits these because of my mobility issues and us not driving."
Yes, your parameters change things. For Yellowstone there is no public transportation within the park and extremely limited private transport options outside the park to gateway towns. You'd definitely want to go with a tour group if you decide to put Yellowstone on your agenda.
IF you decide to do this I would like for you to PM me before you book so I can take a look at the company and the itinerary for you! Pre-Covid there were many awful companies who did tours blitzing thru Yellowstone with 6AM departure times and 10PM arrival times to the next hotel. They have disappeared since Covid mostly because they were inexpensive and aimed at the Asian tourist market. I suspect they will be up and running when those big tourist sectors return to the Western Parks.
If you go, I want you to go with a reputable company who will provide a memorable holiday for you. And memorable in a GOOD way, not a bad one, lol!!
I was reading through these posts again, and it occurred to me that fear is very relative. Back in my 20's I had some friends who lived in Hell's Kitchen in NYC. This was in the early 80's, when the area was still pretty crime ridden and before it became gentrified. When it was time to leave, they gave me directions to to the nearest bus stop, which was about 3 blocks away. It was dark when I left and I was very nervous, sure that I was going to be mugged or worse at any time. But then it occured to me that my friends weren't nervous. Certainly they were careful but they didn't pay as much attention to the dark streets as me because this was their home and they were used to it.
I think we all tend to worry a bit when we're in a strange place. It's outside our comfort zone and we may not be familiar with the area, so we're worried about where to go. But you have to decide how much you want to let that fear rule your life. You can research what areas to avoid and keep a low profile (no flashy jewelry, etc.). Some of the cities on your list are favorites of mine, like New Orleans. It has a lot of crime but so much great music, beauty and culture, and for me, that outweighs the dangers. I would head there any day of the week. So pick your poison, do your research and come here for further advice. :)
You've received some great suggestions here. I hope you are able to find a US itinerary that works for you.
In the spirit of the factual data provided about Chicago up thread...
If anyone wants statistics backed up with sources, a good place to look is the Gun Violence Archive. The link is to Mass Shootings in 2022, but the site provides data on other types of gun violence as well. Note that a mass shooting is one where 4 or more people, not including the shooter, are injured or killed.
Gun Violence Archive:
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting?fbclid=IwAR300t0djjmueCYjzWZ8MP_SpxtHwZ3MHguzMaXFbTCA-RhYuzBxtCRsMvc
As a metro Detroiter I am of course horrified by the violence that routinely places us at or near the top of the statistics. It's curious that in over 5 decades living in Wayne county I have only once been the recipient of an attack and that occurred when I was 12 years old. An older teen threatened me with a knife in a Downriver shopping center's Woolworth's. 5 decades later during a business trip for Ford I was mugged in Dallas walking in the tunnel from the hotel to the convention center. I've been in and around Detroit for countless hours for over 5 decades and I was a victim elsewhere. There's of course pure chance involved in avoiding violence but also an element of being familiar with one's surroundings.
What many people forget when they hear the outrageous murder statistics is that travelers are not the primary target in shootings. Domestic shootings involving squabbles among relatives and/or children finding weapons in households are frequent and travelers are seldom involved in these incidents. The sites highly visited by tourists are highly protected by police due to their visibility. Even the incidents that occur in prime spots such as Greektown tend to be animosities between gangs or local feuds. That said the frequent road rage shootings will often target random drivers and passengers and bystanders are subject to being collateral victims in armed robberies. We're seeing a number of "smash and grabs" during late hours that would seldom involve travelers. Tourists would seldom be involved in the high number of standoffs between troubled residents and police.
As a former data warehousing professional I believe in the data but I also know that one must drill down into that information to determine how it applies to travelers and tourists as opposed to residents. Pockets of cities may be crime infested, some areas may be very safe, and the suburbs have a much different situation even within several miles of a county.
I agree with all the national park people.
https://www.nps.gov/index.htm
Also, every state has their state parks which sometimes are better than the national parks. We've been doing summer road trips to many national parks and I often look for state parks to stop at or stay the night.
There are also national forests, which are nice as well.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/
I'm not too sure about the parks ...
https://freerangeamerican.us/national-park-murders-hundreds-killed-missing-no-one-is-talking/
Good grief Mister E...could you have found a more sensationalist article, lol? Yikes.
The murder they led off with, Gabby Petito, while it was near the Grand Teton National Park, she and the boyfriend were camping at, and her body was found near, the Spread Creek dispersed camping area in the Bridger-Teton National Forest. I have a couple of friends with a camper van who camp there regularly and there is no more danger there than anywhere else. You have to call in to question any article that gets a location wrong in the first paragraph. Near Grand Teton National Park, yes, IN Grand Teton NP, no. Totally different to law enforcement as well.
The Yellowstone deaths by thermal pools are dreadful but they are generally accidents not murders. There was a recent death this summer but there is no information that it was a suspected murder. The death before that was an unfortunate dog who slipped his lead. His owner went in after him and was severely burned but survived. The previous one was a child not being monitored and before that was a young adult male who was off boardwalk/trail in a thermal area and fell into a hot pool.
The "Zone of Death" in Yellowstone figures in to some mystery novels I am told but as far as I know they've not found a victim there.
Pam, most of the stories about violence in the US are similar in nature, so my point was made LOL.
Just stick to the tourist venues and the better parts of town and the US is "safe" with a few well publicized exceptions.
I live in a tourist city, San Antonio, Texas and I can't remember the last time I heard of violent crime against a tourist, or against a random individual.
But I am certain someone will find one to prove me wrong.
So, if the OP comes here, I will be happy to play guide.
We would like to see the Grand Canyon (Hockney's "A Bigger Grand
Canyon" is one of my favourite pieces of art ever) and Yellowstone but
might need to find a tour that visits these because of my mobility
issues and us not driving.
Aussie, you've hit one of the bigger issues for many of our parks and monuments: lack of good transportation TO them, and transport AROUND them once you get there. Not everyone can manage a rental car, either because of comfort driving abroad, cost (especially true for under age 25), or lack of a license. As well, the most-visited parks have vehicle congestion issues that they're using all sort of methods to try and ease but, well, it's still a problem.
But if you can get to the Grand Canyon's South Rim, you'll find it to be very friendly to folks with mobility challenges. Almost all of 13 miles of its Rim Trail are paved as are the paths to the overlooks, and it has a shuttle system for accessing those on the West side's Hermit Road (high and shoulder seasons). Those to the East of the village, out to Desert View, can be accessed by private vehicle or bus tours booked through the lodges. Speaking of those lodges, almost all of them are flat, easy strolls from the rim.
If you can fly to Flagstaff, there is public transport from there:
https://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/directions_s_rim.htm
Rim Trail (you don't need some of the recommended "8 Essentials" in your daypack for short strolls on this one):
https://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/upload/RimTrailMap.pdf
What I do not recommend are any of the one-day trips from Las Vegas. They involve many hours sitting on a bus for scant couple of hours at the park. There used to be one that included 2 nights at one of the lodges but I haven't been able to lay hands on it or it's no longer offered. Also skip anything from Vegas to the "West Rim": its not the quality Grand Canyon National Park experience and falls into my definition of "tourist trap."
Mister E, I'm chucking at the "Let's scare the tourists!" article. Yep, point made.
That said, there is a book called "Over the Edge: Death in Grand Canyon" - which I own - that describes the assorted ways people have met their maker there. A related read for park lovers is "Ranger Confidential: Living, Working and Dying in the National Parks." A ranger's job is definitely no piece of cake, and most visitors who lose their lives do so ignoring their warnings: lack of enough water: lack of proper gear: lack of adequate physical conditioning for what they've taken on: hiking at the hottest part of the day: crawling under safety barriers and around "Danger!" signs; taking stupid risks while under the influence; messing with the wildlife; hiking high, exposed places during lighting storms; etc. Aussie, almost none of these would be a concern for the sort of trip you're looking for!
But if you can get to the Grand Canyon's South Rim, you'll find it to be very friendly to folks with mobility challenges.
Thanks for this tip. It's really helpful.
I have been to all 50 states, NYC, Chicago, New Orleans, SF, LA and Seattle. Personally, I have never felt unsafe in any of cities you mention. Of course, I have not gone to unsafe neighborhoods in those cities either. (I've been to dodgy parts in Tulsa, Phoenix... and Banff Alberta come to think of it when I ran across a horny moose but I digress.)
I hear folks avoid the beaches in Australia because of the sharks and of course I've heard bad things about certain belligerent
kangaroos. Isn't Russell Crowe not to be crossed or is he NZ?
Yes, there are unsafe parts in all large cities in US. Yes, there are too many guns, too much crime. Yes, we have problems with homeless in some cities, gangs in others. I'd avoid problematic areas. But again personally I love NYC and SF as well other of the places you mentioned.
P.S. We are going to Rio in January. We will not be visiting the favellas.
Tom_MN, I disagree. I am quite comfortable around the black people who live in my neighborhood, went to the schools where I taught, and go to my church. I am not comfortable with thugs from any race or political party who seem to have the upper hand in some US inner cities right now.
I am with Pam—-that article linked above about deaths in the national parks is sensationalist and, more importantly, inaccurate. Pam pointed out one error, involving a murder near, not in, Grand Teton NP. The same mistake was made with Arches NP. I did not read much beyond that.
Yes, people do die in the national parks, most commonly from drowning or falls. Next come animal animal attacks, weather-related problems (lightning, hypothermia, dehydration or heat exhaustion, flash floods or mudslides, avalanche), and simply getting lost. Almost always these incidents reflect inexperience and/or poor judgment; they were unfortunate but avoidable.
As for violence from a human, most incidents of that involve people who knew one another. The assault or murder could have occurred anywhere; it just happened to take place in (or near) a national park. Likely the perpetrator was just taking advantage of an isolated spot.
The lesson to be learned is that park visitors should respect the warnings about the hazards of the outdoors given out by the national parks and other sources. Carry the 10 Essentials when hiking, don’t enter fast-moving water or even still water above a waterfall, maintain your distance from wildlife, etc. And don’t hike alone (but choose your companions wisely).
I saw this article today, may be interesting for Americans to see what other countries tell their citizens about visiting the USA. Seems very timely considering this post. Some excerpts:
After all, the rate of gun-related deaths is the United States is going up. And mass shootings in America -- 617 as of 1 p.m. ET November 29, according to Gun Violence Archive -- have become commonplace and make headlines around the world. CNN Travel checked out what the governments of the United States' neighbors and closest allies have to tell their citizens about coming here. It's not exactly a flattering picture.
The Australian government warns its citizens who plan to visit the US that "violent crime is more common than in Australia and gun crime is possible in all areas. Follow local guidance and instructions. If you live in the US, learn active shooter drills." On its SmartTraveller website, the Australian government also reminds would-be travelers that "it's legal for US citizens to openly carry firearms in public." It goes on to say that "the US has a higher level of violent crime than Australia, but incidents rarely involve tourists." It does not provide notice of specific incidents "unless there's a significant risk to Australians."
The French Ministry of Foreign Affairs has a different take.
It says generally "the United States of America is among the safest countries," but it does warn French citizens about some urban areas and notes an increase in carjackings.
Interestingly, the ministry breaks down potential threats to very specific neighborhoods. A couple of examples:
• In Boston, "it is recommended to avoid traveling alone, on foot and at night, in certain parts of Dorchester, Mattapan and Roxbury."
• In Atlanta, French visitors are told to "be vigilant in isolated areas of the city center (downtown) after the close of business and favor taxi travel at night."
Germany is another US ally with strong tourism ties, and it has strict gun laws and a much lower rate of firearm homicides compared with the United States. Its Ministry of Foreign Affairs tells German citizens that "it is easy to obtain guns in the United States, leading to increased use of guns and occasional killing sprees. The number of arms and ammunition purchases has increased significantly during the COVID-19 crisis." It also warns would-be visitors to the US about the possibilities of domestic clashes over racism and police violence, advising them to "avoid gatherings of people in the vicinity of which violence could possibly occur."
And Mexicans have their own concerns about visiting their northern neighbor. (For instance, one of the people killed in the mass shooting at the Highland Park, Illinois, July Fourth parade was a Mexican national visiting family.)
When this story was published in late November 2022, the Mexican government's overseas travel alert page for the United States wasn't working. However, CNN's Library research team found cautions about US travel posted on the site in May 2021. It specifically noted that "historical racial and ethnic tension, including opposition to immigration, have led to attacks by violent extremist groups" and then cited the mass shooting at an El Paso, Texas, Wal-Mart in 2019, in which more than 20 people were killed.
Japan says "one of the main security concerns in the United States is gun crime" and offers a lot of advice for getting out of or hunkering down in possible active shooter situations, including:
• Find security exits in a new place and have an evacuation plan
• Escape regardless of whether others agree or not
• Hide in a room and barricade the door using heavy furniture
• Keep quiet and mute cell phones
If a Japanese tourist can't escape or hide, they're advised to "throw things close to the criminal, use them as weapons; scream; act with all your might."
Link to the original article: https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/travel-warnings-other-countries-us-violence/index.html
Carlos' post gives the view from abroad. Well done.
When you live without gun violence in your own society, you think twice before voluntarily inserting yourself into a society with an active-shooter gun culture.
I agree Bets, it definitely gives pause for those who have the privilege to live in such societies, after living in the US for a few years now I can see I took that for granted back in Spain, and I live in a state with one of the lowest rates of gun deaths in the US.
We have traveled the World and I have visited 81 foreign countries.
Until 2020, I would say that the USA was still relatively safe for tourists, just be careful where you go in large cities.
Crime in my local area (not a large city) is concentrated in the poor section of our nearby city, but away from the city in what is called suburbia, the crime rate is almost zero.
My Son once lived in Atlanta. He lived in Uptown, which is near Georgia Tech. It was safe at night to walk to a restaurant.
That has changed now. Many have told us that they don't go to Lenox Square to shop anymore.
• In Boston, "it is recommended to avoid traveling alone, on foot and at night, in certain parts of Dorchester, Mattapan and Roxbury."
Here's the thing. No tourist would be in these specific areas. And this is likely the case with other cities. I've been driving through these neighborhoods for years, but come around 9:00 PM, alone, I'd often go around. As a 22 year old in the '70's, this was the territory I was given to work in, in person. I always went in the AM...when the badies were still asleep, and the people were lovely. The territory was likely given to me because the company wanted to test one of the first women in this position. Much of it has improved since then, some not.
Again, these areas are nowhere near tourist areas or as a means of getting to a tourist location. As far as I'm concerned every country has bad men. Period. Women are particularly at risk. But this doesn't stop me from traveling solo. Use commonsense and you will be fine.
Honestly, the most unsafe I feel is when I get into the car and drive anywhere-the pandemic has made people lose all driving skills and assume they are the kings of the road.
OMG, Heather, this is so true! People forgot how to drive and lost their minds apparently! LOL
Tom_MN, I definitely agree about the rural South. But a lot of that violence is not random. And tourists wouldn't go there. And I agree with the post about drivers getting worse since Covid but there have always been people who run red lights and stop signs, don't yield at roundabouts, and ignore speed limits(Atlanta is the worst for this-you have to drive 80 even when you're in the slow lane). However, the OP won't have that problem since he/she is not planning to drive.
Very interesting and enlightening to find out what/where is considered or perceived to be safe. Except for a few years in a suburb in 1980s, I've lived in SF all my life, take only public transport using that Clipper card, like the Oyster card in London. No doubt the crime and homeless problem is far worse, plus the absolute squalor and filth, all quite plain to see in SF.
Based on the list above and other cities mentioned, I've been to New Orleans, stayed a couple of blocks from the Convention Center, likewise with Washington, DC, didn't stay in downtown Seattle but out at the airport. In LA I stay between Little Tokyo and Chinatown, opposite of the Amtrak station, all within walking distance to downtown, and across from the Mexican Quarter (El Pueblo de Los Angles). I don't do a rental car, only rely on public transport or a taxi when need be.
Human beings are genetically programed to hurt and kill each other. The species has always been this way. Civilization usually inhibits most people from hurting other people. The per-capita or rate of homicide, assault, robbery, and so on, has probably always been the same; the overall amount of violence per day is probably increasing but only because of the recent excessive rate of increase in population.
Inside of museums and in certain parks in certain neighborhoods, it is rather unlikely that anybody will bother you. Between the parking lots and certain sites and museums chances of getting bothered are low. You are not going to visit gang-infested ghetto residential neighborhoods. If somebody tries getting your attention or asks for money while outside, continue walking. Do not stop walking even for a second. Once when walking on a sidewalk in downtown Chicago with my brother (I might have been 25 at the time. He is 4 years and 5 months younger), a bum tried asking us for money. I tried to keep walking but my brother stopped and I had trouble getting my brother to keep walking with me and he got into a conversation with the bum. The bum yanked my brother's coat when I thought I had finally convinced him to follow me and keep walking. I scolded my brother for talking to the bum and for giving the bum money... giving them money doesn't help. They just use the money for alcohol or drugs...
The city of Detroit has the Detroit Institute of Art (5th biggest art museum in the country), the Detroit historical museum, Belle Isle (now a state park. When I was last there in summer of this year the plant conservatory and aquarium were open. There was no given entrance fee but you feel stupid if you don't put at least some amount in the donation box at the entrances, and they still weren't collecting the supposed entry fee to the park but in Michigan we have the option of paying $11 more for our annual car license plate tabs which lets us park in state parks); River Walk park; the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn; Greektown in Detroit is probably reasonably safe; the Cranbrook property and gardens in Bloomfield Hills is totally safe, the outdoor area is free, the museums have a cost; Windsor Canada has a park similar to Riverwalk, and Jackson Park and possibly 5-pin bowling (I have done 5-pin bowling); the Heidelberg project is in a bad neighborhood in east Detroit but I drove past it once; I might have been taken to Historic Fort Wayne once when I was under 10 years old but I don't remember it.
Sorry, but "felt unsafe" is usually shorthand for "I am not comfortable around black/homeless/poor/__________ people."
Actually it was more that we didn't know what to do if we needed help. In Australia, we grow up being told that the best thing to do is to ask police for help. From what we see about the US, approaching police is not necessarily a good or safe option. The Australian woman killed by police in Minneapolis in 2017 got enormous media coverage.
Australia has plenty of poor and homeless people, seeing them makes me sad that in a wealthy first world country we haven't worked out how to adequately house everybody and disappointed that we have a welfare system that is inadequate to meet basic needs. But not unsafe.
Australia has a highly diverse society and we are comfortable with anyone's ethnic origins. Within our immediate family we have people of Italian, Irish, British, Mauritian, Korean and Chinese ancestries.
It is sad that first world countries don't have better ways to deal with the homeless who are mentally ill. I had a cousin who had schizophrenia and wandered the country for decades. There was no way her mother or anyone else could make her take medication.
If you base your perception off the news, you will be afraid to visit most of the world. Whenever visiting a city, do your research on what areas are safe as all areas of a city are not created equal. You can visit beverly hills or you can visit skid row and you will have two very different experiences. I live in a city with sky rocketing gun violence and homicide rates and I still don't feel unsafe in my city. Perception really is everything. While mass shootings take up the news and are definitely an issue that needs to be addressed in this country, the chances of being involved in one are still wildly rare. More rare than getting stabbed in the UK.
