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Respecting the Culture

So far on the forum today we have a question of a person fearful to visit the US because of the violence. This could be a pretty easy one for outsiders to pile on because of the country’s gun culture. Then another post, commenting on a Canadian province’s car insurance laws. The author has strong words about the rules. There is definitely a difference between the two countries in terms of litigation attitudes.

And then there is Qatar. If you’re not aware, the World Cup Soccer tournament started in there this week. For years leading up to the event there have been hundreds of editorials and protests about the country’s horrible human rights issues and how the tournament should never have been awarded to them. In those same years, Qatar’s government officials have consistently given the same message “respect our culture.” But protests are ongoing. However the biggest story this week may be about beer. At the last minute, the government decided that beer sales would be banned from the stadiums. In response to the uproar, Qatari officials again stated that you need to "respect our culture.” But people are blowing up over this one. One quote from a Mexican visitor says no beer “is a disaster.”

Where is that line that you shouldn’t cross as a guest in another country? Can I, when I visit in the US publicly poo-poo you Americans with your gun culture? Can the Americans publicly scold those Canadian provinces that don’t cover your vehicle in a car accident? Is beer in Qatar the hill you want to die on? Where is that line when we as guests should shut-it and “respect the culture?”

Posted by
8252 posts

The United States is a huge country with many sub-cultures represented. Our most prominent cultural norms have to do with freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I do not take offense when others participate in the cultural norm regarding expressing their opinions about the US. I am thankful to live in a country where opinions can be freely expressed and discussed.

Posted by
924 posts

I will allow this thread so long as it focuses on the question at the end of Allan's post.

This thread is NOT an open invitation to discuss US gun issues or get into other politically charged discussions.

Posted by
6265 posts

Webmaster: counting down....

Allan, my husband and I were trained as cultural anthropologists, and this is an ongoing argument in that discipline. (Or was, 50 years ago.) The anthropological version of "respect the culture" is called cultural relativism, but one always does wonder where to draw the line.

Another thought provoking topic from Allan, but I suspect the webmaster's boundaries will be breached sooner rather than later.

Posted by
557 posts

Good food for thought, Allan. I am of two (or three, or four) minds about this.

Here at home I don't patronize businesses if they have a corporate philosophy or behavior I disapprove of or firmly disagree with. Likewise, I won't spend my tourist dollars in some states because of the government's laws or actions. There are other places to spend my money. That being said, the decision to visit SOME states or countries is more nuanced. What are the particular things about it that I dislike (or even disdain)? Is the behavior so baked-in that there is no hope for change? Has the place made progress that I am hopeful about? How does the state or country treat, not just its visitors/tourists, but its citizens and non-citizen inhabitants? Will my visiting that place perhaps effectuate some good? I have visited China, Turkey, Morocco, Kenya, Chile, Mexico and Egypt, besides several European countries At the time I did visit them they were in a stage of some advancement toward either democracy or greater tolerance of the "other." I had put off some of these trips because of political/cultural behavior that I couldn't ignore. When things seemed to be improving, I took my chance and visited them.

I am glad I did go, and I feel blessed to have been exposed to the many different cultural experiences. In a few cases, things got worse later, so I guess I found the "sweet spot" of time. Alas, some places I still hope to visit have been moved down on my list due to recent changes in the political situation there (I am looking at you Poland and Hungary). This may seem like I am being too arrogant and judgmental, but since I, as an individual of advanced years and cannot really change the way the world operates, I must take my stand in my own little way. And sometimes, in weighing the matters that are important to me, the balance tips in favor of a trip to a place, in spite of my doubts.

To the Americans and Canadians on this forum, yes, we are not perfect, and yes we have issues with our cities and our rules and laws, but we are lucky to have SO MUCH land to explore, that we could live two or three lifetimes and still not see all of the USA and Canada that is so magnificent. Just our national parks in both countries make the soul sing. I have only visited 26 staes and 4 Canadian provinces, so I had better get moving.

My final thoughts...respect the culture DEFINITELY! But be true to yourself and stay away from those places where you find it impossible to do so.

Posted by
490 posts

The people are not their government. Up until a few weeks ago I would have been happy to wear hijab in Iran as that is what is required by the government. Now however the situation has changed I'd be guided by what local women were doing (not that I'm going any time soon - its just an example).

Plenty of places have issues with booze - starting with Philadelphia -shocked not to be able to buy wine and beer at the local supermarket like other civilized countries! Again I'll do what the locals do - but I like a beer in a hot country - and I can almost always find a legal one - very few countries are actually dry (Saudi and Brunei are the only ones i can think of)

Oh re the post about Canadian law - many Americans will be shocked by 2 things in NZ - if you get knocked over crossing the road - you will picked up and taken to hospital - that won't cost you anything, it won't cost your insurance company anything, the government will pay. HOWEVER, you will NOT be able to sue anyone involved in the accident - we have no fault accident insurance that covers everyone in the country - visitor or local

Posted by
2274 posts

Although the individual may have nuanced the insurance issue in BC as being "cultural" - it's not - it's the law.
.
Ya never hear Washingtonians complaining about the drinking age/marijuana useage age being 19 in BC versus 21 in the state.

Posted by
365 posts

I won't spend my tourist dollars in some states because of the government's laws or actions. There are other places to spend my money. That being said, the decision to visit SOME states or countries is more nuanced. What are the particular things about it that I dislike (or even disdain)? Is the behavior so baked-in that there is no hope for change? Has the place made progress that I am hopeful about? How does the state or country treat, not just its visitors/tourists, but its citizens and non-citizen inhabitants?

THIS. I do what I can to spend $ (money talks) and not give it to cultures or places I have deep issues with that upset me fundamentally and to my core. I don’t go somewhere and whine about how much I hate them, how deeply I disagree with their culture. I go somewhere else.

Posted by
6428 posts

To Allan's last question, a characteristically thoughtful one, I'd respond that the line is drawn when we decide whether or not to visit a particular country whose culture (including laws, government policies, customs, religious practices, etc.) differs from our own. Sometimes the cultural differences are part of a destination's appeal, sometimes they challenge our values in ways that keep us away. This could also apply to visiting particular US states or parts of any large diverse country. Judy expressed it very well.

No one forces us to go anywhere for the tourism that this forum celebrates. (A work assignment would be another discussion for another forum.) If what we dislike about the place outweighs what we like, we should stay home or go elsewhere. Having decided to go somewhere, we should respect the culture, not make waves, try to stay out of trouble. When in Rome, we don't have to do everything the Romans do, but we shouldn't scold them or act surprised when they do whatever that is. There's lots of great beer outside Qatar.

Now, should FIFA have put the World Cup in that country? A fair question for discussion somewhere else.

Posted by
257 posts

I would add that it's important to remember that as visitors/tourists we are guests in the country or area we are visiting. If you were a guest in someone's home you wouldn't criticize or make comments about their home or customs - you are polite, keep an open mind, and remember it was your choice to go there in the first place. Think about how it would make you feel if someone came into your town and criticized the way things are done there without trying to perhaps try to understand why. Bottom line for me is be polite, follow the local rules/customs and remember you are a guest in that country and you are free to leave if you don't like it.

Posted by
3586 posts

Many of the posters seem to be conflating culture and government, though sometimes the borders separating them get fuzzy. To take a trivial example, calling new and especially aged acquaintances by first names is not done in some societies. To insist on doing so would be not respecting their culture. To refuse to spend tourist dollars in countries where the (elected) government increasingly ratchets up ant-semitism, persecutes political opponents, and threatens journalists, has little to do with respect for culture.

Posted by
8377 posts

Rosalyn make good points. I dont think this is a question about respecting a different culture, as much as it is recognizing that everything in a foreign country doesnt work the same way as it does back home. And to make the effort to recognize this requires some thought into what our assumptions might be. More of a cultural awareness thing, like (dare I say it?) tipping. most American travelers I know don't make any effort into understanding that our culture, customs, rules, and expectations, are not the default everywhere. Or that not being aware of the differences might cause problems or offense. I think RSE makes a good effort and trying to educate travelers on this.

I would not ever drive my car in another country without checking my insurance coverage or my medical insurance coverage. Even though we tend to think of Canada as being just like us, they are their own country and the burden is on the traveler to learn the differences. Beer in Qatar? Everyone, including the FIFA decision-makers should have known this would be a problem, and if they hadn't already worked this out then shame on them.

The travel ethics issue thing is a whole 'other issue.

Posted by
4255 posts

If you have a serious problem with an aspect of another country's culture that you believe violates human rights, most of us have the freedom to avoid that country. Personally, I don't see how banning beer is a serious human rights violation. I definitely would not go to a country that required women to wear the hajib. And I agree with Carol that foreign visitors are free to comment on things that bother them, but do not move permanently to my part of the country and expect to change us. We have a famous phrase down here which I cannot say because it would get my post deleted.

Posted by
14801 posts

When I travel internationally, I am a guest in that country and act as such. I try to learn as much as I can about the rules and customs to show that respect. I don't expect it to be like home. I don't discuss politics.

Now, if I am somewhere where I have made friends and we are free to talk, that changes things. I'm in Scotland and spend quite a bit of time here. I've discussed the recent change in UK leadership (both of them) with my friends as well as the question of Scottish independence. In turn, I've been asked about the U.S. gun culture, Trump, Biden, the elections, and more. Most of my friends here have been to the U.S. so it's not just what they hear on the news.

If there is a country where I would truly have a problem with their rules, regulations or leadership, I wouldn't go there.

Posted by
4022 posts

To take a trivial example, calling new and especially aged
acquaintances by first names is not done in some societies. To insist
on doing so would be not respecting their culture. To refuse to spend
tourist dollars in countries where the (elected) government
increasingly ratchets up ant-semitism, persecutes political opponents,
and threatens journalists, has little to do with respect for culture.

This gets to the heart of my inspiration for the post. Tourists in Qatar complaining about the beer is rude in my opinion. But what about going to a place like Qatar as a guest/tourist to watch an event but then also vocally criticizing them the human rights abuses? Is it one thing to boycott the country for your beliefs, but OK to show up because for the next month it is a desirable tourist destination? Does that now give you the right to be vocal about how they treat people?

Posted by
4022 posts

Allan, my husband and I were trained as cultural anthropologists, and
this is an ongoing argument in that discipline. (Or was, 50 years
ago.) The anthropological version of "respect the culture" is called
cultural relativism, but one always does wonder where to draw the
line.

Jane, who knew you were even more interesting than I already thought you were! I've been busy wasting time at work this morning googling cultural relativism. Some of the info is above my IQ level but is it ever thought provoking. Even when it comes to human rights abuses, are we wrongly using western standards to judge?

Posted by
7049 posts

Tourists in Qatar complaining about the beer is rude in my opinion.

I think this has to be put in context. Qatar did a last minute bait and switch that put at least one of the sponsors (a large beer company) in a real awkward position and changed expectations for all stakeholders involved in the cup (fans, sponsors, FIFA, etc) at the last minute.

I think this quote from Forbes says it all:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/charlesrtaylor/2022/11/18/why-qatars-about-face-on-beer-sales-at-the-world-cup-is-problematic/?sh=4d0040001acb
"What has now changed is that the host country’s government has reneged on an agreement with FIFA, calling into question what will come next. The about face on the part of the Qatari government just two days prior to the event is not defensible by any reasonable ethical standard and, as a result, criticizing this change of plans is not a matter of respecting another culture."

Posted by
747 posts

All his sounds fine for the most part. When in Rome. Maybe calling people by certain greetings, not drinking in public, and maybe even the not tipping problem. How is it that people tip as tourists in a destination where it is not done? Yet, it happens, and is it disrespect for the culture?
How about respecting a macho society where you can beat your wife? Or female circumcision? Or a culture of caste?
It would seem there is a line, but where is it? Do we draw our own lines? That seems a cultural bias in itself.

Posted by
10118 posts

Pardon me for laughing, Nick. (Oops, Nick's comment is gone.) Just today the Washington Post has an article on the bull games on the southern coast of France in Pyrénées/Occitanie. These are games, plucking a bouquet from between the horns, played in almost every town, like a youth sport; only 4 places kill bulls, though that's what the article dwells on. The WAPO readers' comments included that it's barbaric, that Russia should bomb them. (I live here, too. LOL) Reading the comments, it was obvious these people were basing their opinions on only the one incomplete article.

Posted by
3064 posts

I think what it all boils down to is that travelers must, or should, learn as much as they can about a country's culture and laws before they set foot in it!
It's not difficult: libraries, Google, travel forums.......
It's not a good thing to wait until you are there!

Posted by
6227 posts

Plenty of places have issues with booze - starting with Philadelphia -shocked not to be able to buy wine and beer at the local supermarket like other civilized countries!

Lizzie, I had to laugh at this!!! First, that's a state issue, not a US one. When I lived in Ohio, I could buy beer and wine at any grocery or convenience store, and liquor sales were available starting at 10 am on Sunday. Then I moved to Minnesota and found that you could not buy beer and wine at the grocery but must go to a liquor store, which is a giant pain. In fact, when I first start visiting Minnesota in 2006 (my daughter married someone from here), you could not buy any alcohol on Sundays. The law was changed about 5 years ago, thank goodness - no more Saturday night drives to Wisconsin! 😊

And don't get me started on the Utah liquor laws!

Posted by
606 posts

Allan, you have posed an excellent question here with your post. There are no easy answers. An essential component of travel is to learn more about different cultures. Nothing wrong with just relaxing on a beach with a maitai in hand, but its possible for one to learn so many more meaningful lessons. And respect is crucial.

There is an elderly narcisist on our street who is also a veteran traveler. She is a poor listener who will try to one-upsmanship you all conversation long. One gathers from her attitude that despite having been to dozens of countries, she has learned very very little about other cultures.

'Disrespect' seems to be her middle name and Travel seems lost on her.
We never want to be that person.

I am done. the Allan post that Andy warned us all about

Posted by
862 posts

I am not religious in any way shape or form, but when travelling I will respect religious traditions and not enter religious buildings unless appropriately attired eg. dressed modestly and/or hair covered.

Nor would I expect to get a beer in Qatar unless that had been promised to me when I spent large amounts of money on my football tickets. I think the big issue about the beer in Qatar is the change of mind that took place.

And I was the person who asked about gun violence in the US. In my country the general population doesn't carry guns and often all the news we see about the US is politics and shootings. So yes I was concerned about it, but the responses to my post seem to be that we just need to be cautious about which neighbourhoods we visit. Same as being on the lookout for pickpockets in Europe.

Posted by
763 posts

This has nothing to do with politics, guns, or religion, but I was amused (?) by a recent experience in the Caribbean. Cultural sensitivity is important to me. I always learn at least the basics of the language, and respect dress religious sensibilities of course, and in developing, and/or non-European countries, this extends to economic issues. Most Americans on cruises (don't even go there please), expect to use US dollars without a problem.
I don't. Sovereign countries have their own currency, and I use it. We visited 4 islands last week that all use a common currency.
When I tried to use it, a lot of them looked at me like I was nuts. They expected and wanted US dollars. When I explained my reasoning, the reply was largely "well, I guess we appreciate that, but do you have dollars?"

Posted by
4022 posts

I haven't been to Mexico in more than 15 years, and both times were in resort areas and I had the same experience. I had Pesos and would get a look of disappointment that it was $US. Also off a cruise ship in Croatia in 2017, I was prepared to pay in Kunas but the cab driver wouldn't tell me how much it would be, he'd only quote me in Euros and expected to be paid in them.

Posted by
17632 posts

You can learn from any experience.
The important thing is to be well informed, or at least ask a lot of questions, so you can put what you see and experience in perspective.
For instance Istanbul is a beautiful city, i enjoy it, but before I get all giddy about it I remind myself that with the good comes some not so good aspects of their culture.
Same with the US, lots of really bad stuff in the US, lots of really good stuff to that cant be found anyplace else.
You just have to find your own balance and tolerance, but dont walk around with rose colored glasses or with a chip on your shoulder either.

Posted by
7595 posts

I lived in Saudi Arabia for five years working for the Army Corps of Engineers. Alcohol was and still is illegal. Still, there was a thriving black market for booze.
One thing, if you wanted booze, you were discrete in acquiring it.

Respecting the local culture is only natural. I think the World Cup fans were upset because they had been told that Qatar was going to allow beer sales. OK, Qatar backed off from that decision. That was their decision, just like the decision to have the cup in Qatar.
Perhaps that decision was not a good one.