Well I thought these Airbnb check in directions were a bit tacky, since the illegality isn’t revealed until after the date when one can still get a full refund.
I do have to say it has worked out very well, and the East Village is the place to be and stay. Very glad to not be midtown in a high rise hotel with 10 minute elevator waits.
I'm assuming you were renting the entire apt? I know that you can rent rooms in NYC if you live there.
And you did report this to Airbnb of course.
I'm guessing that you could have gotten a refund if you had reported this illegal rental to AirBnB.
I don't understand why you are bragging about getting away with this illegal activity.
It's an illegal full apartment rental. NYC clearly states short let rentals can only be a room or space you are sharing with the owners. https://www.nyc.gov/site/specialenforcement/registration-law/registration-for-hosts.page
The AirBnB app offers a link to report the listing, though that reporting option isn't obvious. The closest is 'I believe this type of rental is not allowed in my neighborhood'. It will at least get them reviewing it.
As an AirBnB user, one should already know many cities have issues with short lets and have laws about them, and do a quick review of the city's rules and requirements. A number of cities, like Barcelona or Paris, require the apartment be registered and to display the registration number on their public listing. NYV doesn't offer that option
I would suggest you review the AirBnB website for any onus on the renter in an illegal space. If it it isn't city compliant, then you may be able to apply to AirBnB for full cancellation refund. Nothing worse to arrive and find the locks have been changed or the host has scampered because they were caught and you are kicked to the curb...so to speak.
I have always stayed in midtown high rise hotels and have never had a 10 minute elevator wait.
So you did an illegal Airbnb & are in the East Village. I prefer the West Village….
I will resist the urge to contact AirBnB about this illegal rental but maybe next time don't promote illegal rentals on Rick Steves forum.
The OP did state he had no idea it was an illegal rental until his money was completely committed.
West Village
Pretty upscale these days.
Also the East Village’s density of eateries I don’t think exists anywhere else in the West, including Europe. This is Tokyo level restaurant density.
Interesting, all short-term rentals in the whole state have been illegal for over 10 years:
New York laws about short term rentals are pretty clear, thanks to a new law went into affect in 2011. "Under the New York State multiple dwelling law, a residential multiple dwelling can only be used for what is termed 'permanent resident purposes,'" explains attorney Robert Braverman. "What that means under the statute is that it has to be occupied by the same person or family for 30 or more consecutive days." So anything less than 30 days, no matter how you swing it, is violating the law…unless it is zoned hotel.
Not just passing the buck but really isn’t the onus on Airbnb to know the law?
The onus is on the host to know the law and not try to get around it. I believe AirBnB has something in the sign up as host that you have reviewed your local bylaws and are listing legally, but I could be misremembering. But really, it starts with the host.
Given that Airbnb’s corporate offices include one located in New York City it seems to me that Airbnb should be well aware of New York law. https://news.airbnb.com/an-update-about-our-offices-around-the-world/
It would be interesting to know more about it. Pure conjecture, but maybe the lawyers at AirBnb decided that if they attempted to enforce every neighborhood, city and state law and ordinance they would be assuming some liability for missing one and its not necessary since AirBnb rents nothing, it a listing and payment service only.
But once made aware of an illegal rent post, then I think the liability should fall back on them. Of course, that requires the OP to turn them in. Maybe it was posted as a 30-day rental, thats legal. Too many "don't know's" to comment.
But there was another RS person that asked me about a Budapest rental that I pointed out was illegal. The owner then admitted it was illegal; the RS guy rented it anyway. So who is worse?
This guy should have contacted AirBnb and gotten his money back. No excuse for participating in illegal activity and he should be tossed out of the forum.
So, I guess, like a rental car, we need to video or photograph with time and date as we check out of lodgings.
I'm a boomer so wouldn't think of this, but my 25-year-old daughter always takes multiple photos as she's checking out of AirBnB rentals, for exactly this reason.
Why are you "put off"? You accepted the risk when you chose to deal with those people.
Normally Airbnb “Superhosts” are reliable.
Normally Airbnb “Superhosts” are reliable.
But this one has not only been unreliable since check-in, but also shown as willing to break local law. Which, apparently, some folks are just fine with, if it saves them a few dollars and/or the hassle of notifying AirB&B and finding new accommodations.
Many responses are ludicrous. I received notice 24 hours in advance of departure that apartment was not legal. There is no reasonable way to exit that arrangement in that time frame. Airbnbs are 100% prepaid and no-showing, even with just cause, means some sort of claw-back of funds, neither quick nor fun. It was also spring break/Easter week.
Also pointing out that hotels mischarge people for damage all the time.
She said she would withdraw the bill, but it was already in the system and I received it. It said I had so many hours to contest, so I felt I had to.
I'm sure it will work out, but with the lipstick stain on the sheets at arrival (large, like 2" dia, we remade the bed with sheets in the closet) it's another extra hassle.
The participation in illegal activity (and by staying there and not contesting it, you were a participant in an illegal activity) makes it harder on everyone. That's why some cities have banned short-term rentals which eliminates options of others and contributes to a bad name for the system as a whole. Why am I so sensitive? Because I own a legal short-term rental and I pay the cost to keep it legal and resent having to compete with criminals and being branded along with them. Yes, it is inconvenient, but criminal activity makes everyone's life inconvenient. Blame the criminal.
I received notice 24 hours in advance of departure that apartment was not legal. There is no reasonable way to exit that arrangement in that time frame. Airbnb's are prepaid 100% and no-showing, even with just cause, means some sort of claw-back of funds, neither quick nor fun.
I'm sure if we asked for a show of hands on this forum for those who've had to make unexpected lodging changes within 24 hours or less before departure, there'd be plenty of hands...including mine. And, yes, it would have required work to get one's money back. But neither finding new lodging nor getting one's money back would have been impossible. Deciding to stay the course with this host after learning the stay would be illegal was the path of least resistance, the easy way out. And, it also makes one an accessory to an illegal act.
Instead of jumping on Tom's back to moralize, let's see how this works out. I'm sure that between his job, flight, and all his 24 hours to turn on a dime were cut short. This is a city where a last minute hotel will be 300-500 a night more. I guess he could have cancelled his trip, but he would have lost the value of his plane ticket. This is a good situation to debate in a philosophy class.
I'm curious if this crooked enterprise told you to be a work colleague on platform or off platform and if off-platform, when did they go off.
For me it reinforces my opinion of Airbnb. Sorry Mister E.
Again, this is why we only stay in hotels or legal B&Bs when we travel. We pay upon departure.
I understand that in some cities it is less expensive to stay in an apt. and very tempting. People have asked us about renting our apartment in Croatia but we always say no, it isn’t a legal rental.
Bets: All communication was thru the Airbnb app. I read there are 16,000 Airbnbs in NYC so it may be a case of mass disobedience: there are too many violators to intervene.
Barbara: I don’t see how a person can determine legality in advance. But an assumption of legality is misplaced.
Noting that with children a house or apartment is a real cost savings but in this case with 2 it’s really a case of experiencing NYC like a resident and not in a generic “downtown” setting typical of another large city. I suppose there was a cost savings also.
My son's former landlord in a four-apartment brownstone used to rent the top floor as an Airbnb until she was fined by the City of NY and shut down. Rather than Airbnb, the City is the enforcer.
“ Airbnbs are 100% prepaid and no-showing, even with just cause, means some sort of claw-back of funds, neither quick nor fun.”
Actually, while you have pre-paid in full, AirBnB does not pass the money on to the owner until after you arrive, check in, and approve of the rental. I believe it is 24 hours later. You could have responded to that message by telling him that you declined to participate in the fraud and wanted to cancel. Also that if he did not approve your cancellation and refund immediately, you would report him to AirBnB and NYC authorities. And then you take screenshots of the messages, starting with the request to pretend you are a co-worker, before hitting the “cancel” button.
I have been able to successfully cancel AirBnBs that were non-refundable, when I had good reason (and without making any threats). I just sent a message to the owner with my reasons (in one case it was a serious back injury my husband was dealing with) and they agreed the cancellation and full refund.
This situation is of course different, but you still had good reason to cancel and I doubt they would have ignored your request under the circumstances.
Tom, we don’t use airB&B or any of these sights. The only place we have used B&B’s is in Croatia and they must be registered as landlords and report the income. We have a few we always rent when we are there if hotels are not available such as in Dubrovnik. If we can’t book directly we go through booking.Com.
The housekeeping issue evaporated as expected.
I’ve decided to book my next destination, Berlin, at a hotel. I noticed Points Guy has an article today about people returning to hotels after using Airbnbs, because of issues like mine.
You might check out this new apartment hotel in Berlin. Locke has a property in London where we will be staying in September. They get great reviews. And the Berlin one is very well-priced—-around €100 or less if you join their “club”.
Lola: Under 100€ including tax for a new place sounds great, but is it too far east? There’s nothing within walking distance except a wall remnant and the Ostbahnhof..
Tom, I cannot vouch for the location, as I do not remember Berlin all that well—- we were last there ten years ago. We stayed somewhere near the Museumsinsel and pretty much walked everywhere.
It does look pretty far east, but the Ost Bahnhofstrasse is two blocks away if one doesn’t mind using transport.
It's not hard to do a quick search to find out the legality of AirBnB in a city before you start looking for lodging. I sometimes use AirBnB for budget travel but I always make sure the booking I'm making is in the clear legally. I live in NYC and we have a massive housing shortage, in part because of people leasing up apartments to put on AirBnb--a company that doesn't care at all whether it's facilitating illegal rentals. As long as they get their cut...
This is an emotional issue, but noting the hotel supply in the highly desireable East Village area is quite limited, and not sure the math works for taking down apartment buildings to put up hotels won't damage the availability of apartments in its own way.
https://www.cmu.edu/tepper/news/stories/2021/september/airbnb-market-expansion.html
Noting that objections to short-term rentals usually fall in 3 categories:
Tax dodging by unlicensed facilities
Noise and disruption of short-timers in the neighborhood
Impact on local housing rents
Not sure there is good data to support #3 actually happening, although we hear about it a lot.
1 is an illegal activity, and even I think the various platforms need to find a way to cope with it. They don't avoid the issue solely for financial gain. There is a legal aspect involved as well.
2 is the closest to a legitimate universal issue. I assume it can really be a problem in some locations. Rather, the HOAs and Condo Associations deal with it, though. But I get it.
3 maybe so, probably so, in some locations, but the common blanket statement lacks a lot of thought of who the winners and loosers in such situations are and how diverse the world is.
You don't need to stay in the East Village. The reason there are fewer high rises in that part of the city is the underlying geography. Stay in Midtown. Stay in FiDi. Stay in Long Island City!
Tom, you are kind to post your experience, as "shared learning," for others who might consider Airbnb stays...either in NYC or elsewhere.
My only experience with Airbnb is as a (previous) landlord of two handfuls of rental units (for 40 years). Only ONCE did we find out a tenant was participating in Airbnb, despite our lease clearing stating NO SUBLETTING. I will spare everyone the long details, but we shut it down immediately, insisting that ALL future bookings be canceled (after capturing screen shots of her listing). Lame story was given to us that she was trying to prove to her boss that she needed a raise, showing how desperate she was (she was a mid-level manager at a large not for profit) and then the real bull was that she told us all the reviews were fake ones posted by her friends (which, of course, we all know reviews cannot happen unless a transaction is complete).
There had been a couple of times (when we were prepping neighboring units) we would see someone else there, and the explanation was that she had a friend staying with her........hmmmm.....
All sorts of potential issues for us could have emerged, key one being liability for any injuries, etc.
Nashville has since tightened requirements, requiring proof of liability insurance, etc., and an official annual permit.
Some Airbnb units, I get the impression, are very professionally run, but some are just very loose "side hussles" by those with absolutely no hotel management experience whatsoever, especially when such people do not own said property.
That might have been the case with the unit Tom rented...maybe the person did not want others in the building to know he was a sub-rental and feared other residents might tip off the owner.
but some are just very loose "side hustles" by those with absolutely no hotel management experience whatsoever, especially when such people do not own said property.
I think this comment hits the nail on the head.
Maybe Easter week was higher for hotels, but I am finding now that the Indigo Hotel just a block south of Houston (just feet from the East Village) is about the same price we paid, and probably would have worked out as well.
