A different perspective on tipping & FIFA

Very interesting, Stan. Thanks.

A fixed service charge of 18%. What a bargain. The expected in SoCal is 22%-25% tip (20% is the bare minimum) with a usage/service charge and now more are charging the 3% for using a credit card.

But will that 18% fixed service charge actually go to the servers?

I wonder how much of the 18% will find its way to the staff? Tipping is a mechanism for suppressing wages, and this looks a lot like profiteering.

...SoCal is 22%-25% tip (20% is the bare minimum)...

This country has gone absolutely tip crazy. I know servers are underpaid (and have been for decades), but why in the ^&%% can't businesses pay them an acceptable wage and price the food accordingly? Restaurant margins are supposedly "thin", but most of them in this area seem to be making a ton of money .

Part of the discussion here on "out of control" tipping, is that academic studies have shown that, when restaurants have tried "no-tipping", some customers get uncomfortable and want to tip anyway. And more importantly, the good workers (i.e., that would have earned good tips) will move to other jobs where they can earn more.

Kansas City Missouri minimum wage law of $15/hr allows tipped employees to be paid $7.50/hr.

Kansas City Kansas, like a number of other states, follows federal minimum wage law of $7.25/hr. But just $2.13 for tipped employees.

Seattle’s $21.30 minimum wage applies to tipped employees, though the service charge - often 18% if there is one - may or may not make it to Seattle restaurant workers.

Like Sgt. Joe Friday used to say, “Just the facts.”

...academic studies have shown that, when restaurants have tried "no-tipping", some customers get uncomfortable and want to tip anyway.

Can't remember exactly where it was, but on a couple of domestic trips we ate at two or three restaurants that had the following printed on the menu:

"Our servers are well paid! Please, no tipping is needed. Thank you.

Didn't feel the least bit uncomfortable not tipping.

My son is a server at an upscale-ish American restaurant and when they "autograt" a table, they get the tip. It's just like when someone adds a tip to their check and it's paid with a credit card. Except it's 18% percent (his restaurant may be 20%, actually). They have an app where his evening's earnings are updated in real time, so he knows he's getting them.

Atlanta is hosting some world cup games. I'll have to ask him if tipping has been discussed at his restaurant.

If Kansas City is like Seattle, hotel prices are 3-4 times normal for those days. These poor visitors are already getting gouged. They deserve to skip the tip.

These poor visitors are already getting gouged. They deserve to skip the tip.

And what about restaurant staff who are paid less than minimum wage?

These “poor” visitors chose to go to FIFA knowing the prices being charged. The staff merely chose to go to work.

In a perfect world, the FFA visitors will study up on American culture and learn about our (admittedly broken) tipping expectations, just as good travelers to Europe do. In the real world, many of them will no doubt opt out of tipping. I do think that anyone who says they can't afford to tip when they eat out needs to find a cheaper restaurant, or stay home, because tipping is part of the deal and the server loses. (Of course, FIFA visitors can't just nip into their kitchen and cook for themselves, unless they do the short term rental thing.)

In response to Fred, here in Seattle waitstaff must be at paid at least minimum wage which is $21.30 an hour. They are not making sub minimum wage. I realize that this may not be the case elsewhere.

Carol. No place in the United States is it legal for an employee to make less than the Federal Minimum wage of $7 25. PERIOD. Yes, a portion of that $7.25 may be from tips but the restaurant must document the tips and demonstrate that the wait staff made at least $7.50 per hour. The average wait persons salary in the US, including tips is over $35,000 per year which is $17 per hour.

Tips are now to a large degree tax exempt.

That minimum wage in Seattle is around $5 more than the minimum wage in the UK, although I do recognise the higher general cost of living.

As an aside the competition is called the World Cup. FIFA is the organisation that runs it. FIFA Is regarded as an embarrassment and a corrupt organisation by most football fans. Despite this people are still very invested in the competition but nobody wants to be associated with FIFA itself, so calling people FIFA fans will not go down well!

The federal minimum wage for covered nonexempt employees is $7.25 per hour.
https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/minimumwage

The $7.25 was set by legislation passed in 2007, The $7.25 became effective in 2009.
https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/minwage.htm

Had there been an inflation escalator, it would now be $11.22.

Since a lot of tourists will be coming from locales where tipping is not the norm, the restaurant owners in areas where large numbers of foreign tourists is not typical, hopefully, they will work out something with their waitstaff to accommodate the situation.

Im sure it will work out just fine.

Everyone knows how obnoxious the tipping culture is in the US so for restaurant owners to suggest that tourists will be unaware and therefore they'll automatically add 18% to the bill just stinks of opportunistic profiteering. As things stand the ticket prices are already obscene and there is a real backlash from fans, many of whom have vowed to boycott the competition. I really do hope many do and that they send a message to the corrupt abomination that is FIFA.

If ever there was an organisation that needs complete eradication, FIFA is it.

I think you're putting it quite strongly for the forum, but you're not wrong. I just hope folks can get to enjoy the football without everything else that is going on in the world getting in the way. Fingers crossed and hope for the best for World Cup 2026 at the moment I think.

Everyone knows how obnoxious the tipping culture is in the US

In surveys the waitstaff prefers it over higher wages. In day to day I am part of everyone and it doesnt bother me. But I'm local, not a foreigner reading the internet and expecting that i am reading all encompassing truth.

so for restaurant owners to suggest that tourists will be unaware and
therefore they'll automatically add 18% to the bill just stinks of
opportunistic profiteering.

Unless you read all the posts praising the exact same system in Europe and suggesting the U S should do it.

Tourists in the US should tip like Americans and they are rude if they do not.

Tolerance and an attempt to understand different cultures is expected of adult travelers unless the culture in question is the US, then we know its wrong ... 🤣

I think if I were going I'd try my best to suck it up and tip workers when it's expected. I'm not keen on the system but you just need to get on with it. I think JC is right that surely most people will know that's what you do in the US. Adding a service charge on just confuses things. I'd hope that wait staff etc. around the World Cup venues have a chance to make hay while the sun shines and have a few weeks that set them up for the rest of the year.

Let's hope a revolution is coming. "A survey shows that 93 per cent of respondents feel “annoyed” when a card payment machine prompts for a tip or gratuity for services or purchases where tipping hasn’t previously been expected. The same percentage said tipping is out of hand and is being applied to goods and services that don’t warrant it." This is a Canadian survey.
https://financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/done-tipping-two-thirds-canadians-survey

Personally I'm at the point where I don't think restaurants warrant it anymore either because of the ridiculous options given. One place at home had options ranging from 22-28% for counter service. But until the customer fights back, nothing will change.

GerryM, I think you are correct. If they are smart enough to have the income necessary for the trip to the US, then I bet they are smart enough to know that Americans, like about half of European countries tip. Are they considerate enough to respect a culture that isn't their culture? Thats the question.

Shoutout to all the American union guys and girls working rigging sound, lights, staging etc. All the freelancers in broadcast too. I've never freelanced, but in summer a lot of people involved in that game over here work their butts off during music festival season and can take a break for a few months after. Hopefully the World Cup is a windfall for all the Americans doing that work.

Mr É

. . . Are they considerate enough to respect a culture that isn't their culture? Thats the question.

That was kind of my unspoken point in mentioning this. Since so many people advocate ignoring local customs in the reverse situation when they travel. But then, you knew that.

Being asked to tip at Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts or the Burger King drive thru would be a struggle for me as a foreigner. I guess I'd just grit my teeth and do it?

I think adding sales taxes to the final price of goods will confuse quite a lot of people where there's a sudden high influx of first time visitors. Anyone who's not up on how things are in the US may be a little thrown by that at first. All the folks from the US are used to that process.

I think what you have to remember is that football fans are not cultural tourists. They are there to enjoy the experience of being part of a travelling army of fans. Few will actually have tickets. They will be mainly interested in drinking, carousing and watching football on a big screen. I doubt many will bother with restaurants. A hotdog will do for food.

My personal experience of America is limited to 10 days in New York years ago, so hardly representative.

If I were to sit down for a steak and fries at a family oriented chain restaurant in Missouri I'd be expecting to have very attentive service (probably too much service for my liking, but that's the custom) and I'd expect to budget 20% on top for the tip. I'd struggle with any more than that. I know that if I were drinking at a bar, I'd be expected to tip the bartender quite generously and often. That's not what you do here, but it's what I'd expect in Kansas City. You can correct me if I'm wrong.

I think Helen's right. The average travelling England or Scotland fan, as an example, is going to be hunting down whatever beer they can by the slab and eating hotdogs. There's usually the "fan zones" in city centres for the ticketless. It will be interesting to see how it's managed compared to big football competitions in European cities. Usually you've got the big town square or piazza where fans gather. it will be interesting to see how American cities manage to cater for fans when they tend to look a bit different in their layout.

Something else foreign visitors may not expect is that tax is not included in menu prices in many (most?) places (and in shops as well)- the price you wind up paying can be quite different to the listed price.

Being asked to tip at Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts or the Burger King
drive thru would be a struggle for me as a foreigner. I guess I'd just
grit my teeth and do it?

Gerry, No you don't. I dont. Many dont. There is no law requiring you tip. Its customary in certain situations. What gets published on the internet, the extremes, is rarely the norm of any subject. Do when you can and it makes sense to you, dont if it seems foolish. No one you should ever care about will hate you.

And you are correct in that there are a lot of customs in the US that will be puzzling to many foreigners ... odd thing is, the same holds true for Americans visiting foreign lands. Stumble through it, laugh it off and move on.

Wait till they go to an open carry state 🤣🤣

There is no law requiring you tip. Its customary in certain situations.

No there's not but there's certainly an expectation. My last visit to the US three years ago I popped into a Subway to buy a sandwich to take with me on a hike. The woman who served me was very friendly until I declined the tip option on the card payment machine. Her demeanour changed immediately into one of complete contempt. That was the last straw for me, I was tired of the whole tipping, added tax and whole nickel and diming culture (resort fees anyone?) that I decided that it was likely to be my last visit to the US. I've been visiting for years and seen most of what I wanted but the whole money grabbing situation was becoming progressively worse. There's a whole load of National Parks that I want to visit but as things stand I'm not prepared to put up with the negatives of visiting the US notwithstanding the idea of my social media content being scrutinised in order to enter the country.

...I was tired of the whole tipping,...nickel and diming culture (resort fees anyone?)...the whole money grabbing situation...becoming progressively worse...

Amen! Preaching to the choir.

What Americans do (per academic studies, not my opinion) is called guilt-tipping. If the server is watching you, you're more likely to tip more. I wouldn't expect people coming from low- or no-tipping cultures to be shamed into it.

I once had dinner with a group of 6 eastern bloc (early eighties) visitors. I explained tipping to them, but they blew it off. I ended up going back to the restaurant and tipping the server for the group., out of guilt.

Speaking for Kansas City, ( metro area of >100 municipalities, 2.2 million people) the community has been organizing for a year to welcome visitors, including planning fan events in various locations. They have recruited a cadre of volunteers to act as hosts and guides. I think a temporary jail facility is being readied too. Barbecue is what you eat here, not so much hot dogs.

JC when I feel I am correct in my attitude, I dont feel guilt. If I did the only person I could hold accountable is myself.

Mr E, I didn't feel guilty at not tipping on the occasion I referred to but rather anger at her response. I tip in the US when I receive a proper level of service such as in a restaurant. I don't tip staff from casual eateries where I'm served at the counter.

I am tipping Brazil to take the cup home.

The only tipping that really matters.

Ahh, the note about waving public drinking ordinance makes me remember my first trip to New Orleans for Mardi gras in 1986 and being amazed at people selling cans of beer seemingly out of their coat pockets........

JC, that i understand completely. I dont tip for crummy or non existent service. I save it for the deserving. But the rude people where I come from arent even 2% so its easy.

JC, please don't judge all servers in the US based on one horrible server. I never add a tip for counter service here at a fast food type restaurant. I may put something in the tip jar IF they went above and beyond, but not for basic reasonable service. And I have never, ever had a counter server change their attitude toward me for not adding a tip. Most don't even pay attention while I'm tapping or swiping my card.

My only experience with an unhappy server and tipping was 25 years ago in Belgium. After paying the server (cash was the preferred payment back then) we left the change, about 5% of the bill. The server ran after us asking why we didn't leave more. It still irks me, but I don't hold it against Belgium.

JC, please don't judge all servers in the US based on one horrible server.

Don't worry Jean, I don't. I've had some fantastic service in the US but it's the whole out of control tipping culture that I detest not the individuals (with some notable exceptions).