Getting Bumped out of 1st Class on OBB (Terrible Refund Process)

there weren't any reservable seats available in 1st class. But did you check whether any were empty?

We assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that OBB would not let us sit in 1st class since they had rebooked us in 2nd class seats. We also assumed, clearly incorrectly, that the OBB agent rebooking us into 2nd class seats would initiate the refund and that it would be inapproriate for us to sit in first class seats afer he had rebooked us into 2nd class seats. Our moverall mistake was trusting his word. That's a mistake we won't make again.

Sorry to read about this mishap, and while I can't add anything that would help your current dilemma , my attitude about experiences like this can be a useful lesson . The question here , for me , is what was the amount of transfer time between Melk and St. Polten ? Inadequate time between two trains on separate tickets can easily lead to the problem of missing a connection . If you had only a short time between trains that increases the risk . .It happened to me a few years ago in Germany ( although no big deal, but had to wait an hour for the next connection - these were regional trains , not something like a Railjet . ) My upcoming trip this Autumn has a connection from Fussen to Munich (DB regional ) and Munich to Vienna via OBB RJX . I've built in very adeqate transfer time at Munich between the two legs, Plenty of time to sit in a nearby park , do some reading and nurse a coffee

Don’t let this get you down. It’s likely only a very small sum that you’re out and you got to your destination. Look at the positives. Travel is full of mishaps and this was a very small one.

Given the quality of Austrian trains I did not travel 1st class ever (same for Germany, Czechia, Hungary). So I cannot really share your grief. :-)

A common mistake people from overseas make is thinking that a train ticket is for a train. In central Europe however tickets are for a route, not a train.

You did not have a ticket for a particular set of trains. What you had was a ticket for Melk to Salzburg. So when you miss your connection in st. Polten all you do is find the next train and get on. You do not need to interact with ÖBB at all. You have a travel entitlement, so can travel. You are expected to reroute yourself at your own initiative. This is mass transit. If the A train is cancelled in NY they do not rebook everyone on different routes, they just assume that people will find their way themselves. You do not need to be "booked" on a train to travel on it, you just need to have a valid ticket.

So what every European does in this case is get on the next train and look for free seats. If it would indeed turn out that there are no unoccupied seats in 1st class and you thus end up sitting in 2nd then you can have this confirmed by the conductor, and you will get a partial refund. But you indeed do need to have this "proof" as there is otherwise no way for the railway to verify that your story is correct. And believe me, if the railway would just believe people at their word it would lead to massive amounts of fraud...

Reservations are not linked to tickets in any way. It is perfectly possible to get a reservation without a ticket even. If you cannot use a reservation because of a missed connection you should request a refund for the reservation fee.

WengenK's reply is fantastic, should be stickied somewhere...

WengenK is our train expert so I will take it to the bank.

1. A common mistake people from overseas make is thinking that a train ticket is for a train. In central Europe however tickets are for a route, not a train.

Except there are Service-Bound tickets, meaning, and WengenK do correct me if I am wrong (very likely) they are good for one and only one departing train on the date(s) listed on the ticket. If you are not on the train listed on the ticket, on the date listed on the ticket I believe that the ticket is worthless. Yes, if you miss a connection after getting on the Service-Bound train you can simply hop on the next available connection (I presume).

2. Reservations are not linked to tickets in any way.

Again, if his words are taken literally you could buy a 2nd class ticket and a 1st class seat assignment and use it with your 2nd class ticket. I doubt that is what he meant.

Reservations are not linked to tickets in any way means that if you buy a flexible ticket and then buy a reservation there is nothing to tie them together other than the receipt number - and only then if they are bought in the same transaction. Demand management experts in transport companies hate that! There is some linking if the ticket is bound to a particular train in some countries but for instance DB will sell you a fixed train ticket without a reservation and let you buy an unlinked reservation later, you could even buy it from OBB. If you buy reservations through Eurail they may ask for the pass number, but you can buy them elsewhere without it which shows how little audit there is.

The key point is that ticket and reservation is not the same thing!

I do wonder about the phone call that started this confusion, and what languages/dialects were spoken.

Except there are Service-Bound tickets, meaning ... they are good for one and only one departing train on the date(s) listed on the ticket.

This is correct, but these are the very low fare bargain tickets, sometimes costing only a fraction of the regular fare. OeBB calls them "Sparschiene".

Again, if his words are taken literally you could buy a 2nd class ticket and a 1st class seat assignment and use it with your 2nd class ticket.

It is perfectly OK to buy a ticket and a seat reservation this way, nevertheless you are not entitled to use the seat in the 1st class.

You can buy as much seat reservations for a train as you like, keeping a car partially empty in the beginning, but seat reservations expire 15 minutes after the departure of a train if the seats are not taken.

If you cannot use a reservation because of a missed connection you should request a refund for the reservation fee.

At least OeBB does not refund reservation fees. See "Can we cancel our reservation?" on this FAQ page:
https://www.oebb.at/en/fragen-und-antworten/gruppenreisen/storno-und-aenderungen

AFAIK, this applies generally, not only in case of a cancellation. (Maybe someone will try to sue OeBB because of this.)

At least OeBB does not refund reservation fees. See "Can we cancel our reservation?"

Generally speaking reservations are indeed not refunded. But I you end up unable to use them because of something the railways did you should get them refunded, and I have been able to get refunds in those cases.

Except there are Service-Bound tickets, meaning, and WengenK do correct me if I am wrong (very likely) they are good for one and only one departing train on the date(s) listed on the ticket.

Basically in the DACH area the way those tickets works is: "We give you a reduction if you commit to taking particular trains. However we are still obliged to get to your destination, so if we mess up your ticket can be used on the next train..."

The way this works in practices varies a bit by railways. People often forget that there is no "European Railway System": So every railway has its own rules.
On DB it is simple. As soon as there is a change in schedule, or as soon as there is an expected delay of more than more than 20 minutes at your final destination the train binding is lifted and you can treat your ticket as a flexible one. That is the reason that even a discounted ticket still has a validity period of on or two days (depending on distance) printed on it. DB unfortunately has the habit of sending confusing emails to its customers which makes people think it is a lot more complicated.

On SBB train binding is not lifted, but you can just take the next train if you miss a connection due to a delay. And that is actually the

It is a bit more complicated in countries with included reservation ticketing ("IRT"). There when you miss a connection you do indeed need to get your tickets exchanged. At Italian stations there are special service desks for that, so that is where you head if you eg, arrive delayed in Milan and your train to Switzerland has already left.

Again, if his words are taken literally you could buy a 2nd class ticket and a 1st class seat assignment and use it with your 2nd class ticket. I doubt that is what he meant.

You can indeed buy a second class ticket and a 1st class reservation. You will however not be able to use that 1st class reservation.
Its the same like how you can buy a ticket with Swiss Half Fare Card reduction, or German Bahncard, even when you do not have those cards. It is on the train that it is checked that everything is correct. Trains work on "proof of payment". There is no passenger manifest. Reservations are even usually not checked. You may have noticed that the conductor only is interested in your ticket.

I remember in my youth how, when booking travel the agent would first book our reservations, and once he had secured those, then he would proceed to issue the tickets as well.

Okay, let me see if I understand this now. If one were going from Vienna to Budapest (for instance).

If flexibility is more important than cost, for 2nd Class you can spend 52.70€ on OBB for a “Fully Flexible” ticket. This is is almost like a Gift Card and meets Wengenk’s definition of a “Route Ticket”. Its good for dang near anything, any train, any time (the day of the ticket and the following day) and you can apply for a refund up until the day prior.

You might be more interested in a discount 2nd Class ticket which for 17€ on MAV will get you on the same train, same train carriage, same route as the fancy Gift Card ticket, but like a flight, you must be at the right train on the right day. If you miss the train, you have nothing. Go buy another ticket. This is not a ticket for a route, its just a train ticket.

With either ticket if you miss your connection due to the fault of the rail company you can hop on the next train to your destination. But you wont have a Seat Reservation.

With either ticket if you want a guaranteed seat or group of seats for your family you will need to buy a Seat Reservation. That is the same cost and entitles you to the same seats to select from regardless of if you bought the 52.70€ or the 17€ ticket. Well not exactly. Its 3€ on OBB and 2€ on MAV. The Seat Reservation is train and date specific. Use it or lose it. If you miss a connection due to the fault of the train company and so miss using your Seat Reservation … in theory maybe you can get a refund, in practice its not worth the effort for 3€ (or 2€ if you buy from MAV).

If you don’t buy a Seat Reservation there will always be empty seats on the train. But you, the spouse and the six kids, may end up scattered over 4 carriages. Maybe a good thing. When boarding move out of the aisle so you don’t block those behind you that know what they are doing and, then look above each seat and you will see a small display. They vary in design and style by train. On Romanian trains they may not work. In less than 60 seconds you should be able to figure out if the seat is available for the full trip, part of the trip or not at all. Repeat until you find a place to sit.

In second class, once you are seated the 16 member German back packing college travel club will board. They didn’t buy seat assignments, but they still want to be together, so they sit on the floor of the train next to your seat. Be sure you do the toilet before they board.

If you chose first class (86.10€ for a fully flexible ticket on OBB or 29€ for a use it or lose it ticket on MAV) you will immediately be identified by the other Americans on the train as an American tourist and not an international traveler. But no backpackers in First Class. In First Class you will discover the local secret which is that it is 90% locals trying to stay away from the backpackers and tourists in 2nd class.

Anyway, I have made the mistake of not having a ticket marked as not used too. We were in Monterosso, and had tickets bought at the station in Bern. (still old fashioned paper tickets). We decided to extend our stay, so I went to the station, and there they could not reissue my ticket for another train, so I just bought a new one, intending to have my old one refunded back in Bern.

But I had forgotten to ask at the ticket office to also stamp my old ticket, so in Bern the ticket office refused to refund it.

Tickets are a receipt. When you buy something in a store, and then decide to return it the store not only wants to see the receipt, they also want to have the goods back. Now how does a railway take a train back, after that train has run? That is why refunds after the trip are so hard with train tickets. If railways just believed you on your word they would open themselves up for all kinds of abuse, and fare evasion is a national sport in some parts of Europe. (Which is why eg. in Italy you have to stamp your paper tickets before boarding...)

In First Class you will discover the local secret which is that it is 90% locals trying to stay away from the backpackers and tourists in 2nd class.

You seem to have a fear from backpackers. I never traveled in 2nd class being annoyed much by people standing in the aisle.

It is not true that 90% of locals are staying away from 2nd class by traveling 1st class. There wouldn't be enough seats in 1st class available.

As a traveller, rather than a tourist to whom travel between cities is just an inconvenience to be done as fast as possible, I would seriously be looking at one of the other routes between Budapest and Vienna (via Sopron or Szombatheley/Graz), not just the direct fast trains.
Who knows what treasures there are to find which are probably beyond most guidebooks. Decades ago I remember vaguely reading about both those cities, but time and place never happened.
I've been to Bratislava (another possible indirect route), and would welcome the chance to go back there again, personally.

It's just how I travel, and what makes me tick.

Even if I wanted to take the direct route I would personally be distinctly interested in taking the regional service, where I am unlikely to be surrounded by all the tourists with their infernal backpacks crowding me out. Rather I would guess those trains are used primarily by the locals.
I don't think it costs any less by regional trains (maybe even costs more), but I don't have to worry about reservations, or as far as I know dynamic fares.

Wmt1, English isn't yout first language so the misinterpretation of my somewhat relaxed conversational wording is understandable.

Isn31c, I am not sure i would agree on the exact choices, but the concept, yes. Its a little like i am getting the spanking i give others for flying past all the places inbetween. I earned it.

Bratislava: few places have disappointed me more. But that's probably because I have only seen it through inexperienced tourist eyes.
Sopron: perfect for dental work, shopping and lunch, but then I would get on the next train.
Gyor: outstanding city for a night.
Pannonhalma: the Archabby is worth the time for my simple interests, especially when the monks have some sort of event for tourists like me.
Graz: havent been yet. I know there are special trains that take the old route, but I believe, but could be wrong, that all the regular trains change in Vienna which would void the purpose. But Graz is on the top of my list. When I go is up to the market price for cabrito.

As for fast trains vs slow trains. The Hungarian tracks are such that the RailJet and the EC take the same amount of time. Tickets are cheap enough no matter which you take that I shop by departure time, not equipment.

The Hungarian tracks are such that the RailJet and the EC take the
same amount of time.

The reason for the two types of trains is because of the way international train services are usually organised. So for Vienna to Budapest OBB and MAV cooperate, and they both provide half of the needed rolling stock. Hence half the trains are RJ, and half are EC, as MAV has not bought RJ sets, and only put standard international rolling stock in the pool.

On Vienna - Prague it is the CD and the OBB that pool stock, but since CD also bought RJ sets all services get labelled RJ there.

(On the old Amsterdam Brussels service they did it a bit differently. NS provided the carriages, and NMBS the locomotive, and the whole was painted in a livery that was a combination of NS yellow and NMBS bordeaux (as they used then) that was quiie attractive.)

Yes and RailJets in theory on a good track can do 230kph while the old Hungarian EC maybe 160kph, not that it matters because I doubt the tracks in Hungary are good for anything more than 100kph. For example the new 07:40 RailJet Express from Vienna to Budapest takes 2:55 and costs 25€ tomorrow (on MAV). The old 08:40 CSÁRDÁS EuroCity train take 2:49 and costs 29€ tomorrow (on MAV). They both run down the same track and they both make four stops along the way. Maybe its too short a trip with 4 stops no train can get up to speed and then slow down four times and do any better, good or bad tracks.

Just by the cheapest ticket that is on a schedule that works for you. I can almost guarantee that the RailJet Express will be just as late arriving as the EC will.

isn31c, I stand corrected, there is a train from Budapest to Graz that doesn’t appear to go through Vienna. It passes, without stopping, through Tatabánya, Komárom, Győr, Csorna, Szombathely. Of course, if you were going to Vienna, why would you go to Graz?

But still, Tata, Komárom and Győr are great stops, if it stopped. If you could work those into a trip between Budapest and Vienna that would be worthwhile. To do them all would take a few days, but you could do one stop in a day.

My vote would be Gyor and Pannonhalma and Komárom

Komárom was a 19th century fort on the Danube. One sat on the opposite side of the river in what is now Slovakia and between the two the Hapsburgs got to choose who could go down river.

Then along came the germans and among other things they used it as a holocaust transfer camp. Then the russian commies came and I believe it was the one of the largest stockpiles of munitions in Eastern Europe. Anyway, great place to visit if you are into WWII and Cold War and for that matter 19th century fortifications. https://youtu.be/XfobC4JO7jI?si=x_blPvKBBvzcWA63
So Budapest to Komárom by train, but you gotta get from the train station to the fortress and that’s not easy. Figure a 30 minute less than pretty walk. Then you gotta get back to the station for the train to Győr. Győr is a wonderful Hapsburg town with a couple of rivers running through it. Some tourism, but mostly authentic. https://youtu.be/NbH6u0J-Xos?si=dlkzYq8RT338uil5 . Look around Győr for the afternoon and spend the night at the Klastrom Hotel. Next morning visit the Archabbey then back on the train late afternoon for the rest of the trip to Vienna.